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Forums - Sales Discussion - Gran Turismo 5 will fail to sell...

 

Gran Turismo 5 will fail to sell...

Best Selling Gran Turismo 939 37.95%
 
2nd Best Selling Gran Turismo 494 19.97%
 
3rd Best Selling Gran Turismo 389 15.72%
 
4th Best Selling Gran Turismo 116 4.69%
 
The Worst Selling Gran Turismo 536 21.67%
 
Total:2,474
goforgold said:
Michael-5 said:
goforgold said:
Michael-5 said:

 

I don't think Forza Motorsport 3 has any city levels, except for New York Curcuit. However my memories of PGR4 tell me that the level of detail to the structures in GT5 is about the same. I'm not refering to the pre-rendered stuff way in the back in GT5, I'm talking about.

PGR4:

GT5:

The cars in GT5 >>> then PGR4, but the environments...hmm... Seriously GT5 dissapointed me graphically, it is no different then Forza 3. I could take images of different environments and show you how they look better in Forza as well, but the above shows enough.

funny because

spoiler: those are NOT from PGR4.........

Pre-rendered backgrounds, most of the environment, especially the ones more up close don't look that way.

My initial point was GT5 graphics are nothing special, environments look the same, if not better in Forza, and even PGR competes with environmental graphics.

Look below for some PGR4 vs. real world comparisions. It will not look any different then GT5.


and then you post more low res shots with some of the flatest textures ever seen in a screen shot, I think you need to get your eyes checked or you had your mind made up before you even played GT5.

oh and the city levels is GT5 are NOT pre rendered. that's real time in game screen shots my friend, I know I couldn't believe it either.

.... I see no difference between the GT5 and PGR4 remakings of city levels. I have 20/20 vision my friend, I do more then just listen to the hype, I judge games by playing them myself.

Backgrounds in GT5 are pre-rendered, those are what look good in GT5 (Clouds, background valleys, distant objects, etc). Close ups (like the ones above), look good, but nothing above the level other racing Sims establish. Look it the top picture for GT5, the windows are texture patterns, this isn't anything breathtaking, PGR4 did the same thing, I don't understand how you can't see that. To me both games look realistic in terms of general shape, but the texture detail still makes all the walls look flat, and it shows in the corners of buildings.



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CGI-Quality said:
Michael-5 said:
CGI-Quality said:
Michael-5 said:

I beleive PGR4 is 1080p resolution, just like GT5. GT5 is a more graphically powerful game, I'm just saying that it doesn't look any better then PGR4 or Forza 3. In the case of graphics GT5 adds no more to the ball game then Halo 3 did in 2007.

This whole argument originated for the sub-topic of PS3 games having better graphics then 360 games, and I only pointed out that GT5 is nothing special, no better then PGR4 or Forza 3. Yes more cars, more cars also running on screen, and car graphics are much better then in PGR4, but PGR4 was a 2007 title, with a much smaller budget. Visually, the environments look the same. So that whole beleif that PS3 is more powerful is a matter of opinion. I personally think Killzone 2 > Mass Effect 2 > Massive tie between Gears 2, Uncharted 2, and God of War 3. After that graphics really don't stand out.

So relating this back to the topic at hand, GT won't sell as well as prior installments because I believe ratings affect the game, and as a simulator/fun game, I think Forza 3 is better, along with most websites. Hate me all you like, but I'll stand by it, and the only reason I'm here is because some more strongly biased fans mock me unsoundly.

That first paragraph is incorrect. Forza 3 nor PGR4 are running in 1080p at any given time. Games like Killzone, Uncharted, & God of War are completely irrelevant here, because GT5/Forza 3 are racing sims and have completely different graphical styles and limitations. And your Halo 3 bit is the most irrelevant bit in the entire post (as well as trolling).

As far as reviews are concerned, you should pay closer attention to the numbers. GT5 did better this last week in NA than the week prior and is tracking above GT4 in EMEAA again this week (by over 200,000).Most websites also called GT5 the best racing sim you can get, which both franchises are out to achieve, but GT still retains that crown. So what the current sales show is that with a franchise like GT, reviews will have little to no effect, which is what I've been saying all along. And if you want to use reviews as any indication of graphics, most say that GT5 has the best looking cars in any video game. I read most of them, carefully.

Long story short, GT5 isn't "just a racing sim", in fact no GT is. It's the biggest, most known franchise in the genre, and GT5 is doing pretty darn good in every region that isn't Japan (which it probably won't need much of in the grand scheme anyway). Nobody's going to hate you for an opinion, but if you think that GT5's current numbers indicate that it will sell lower than past iterations (and aren't willing to listen to reason or truly look at past GT titles), then it would seem like you aren't truly grasping the data.

This thread should have moved on long ago in my personal view, which is why even if you reply, I probably won't re-visit this place. It really is just a tit for tat environment.

Actually Forza Motorsport 3 runs at 1080p. It was patched early on, look on the back of the ultimate edition, it will say 1080p. I'm not sure about PGR4, I haven't played that game in a while, but I think the game runs in 720p, and nowhere did I state it ran in 1080p.

"I beleive PGR4 is 1080p resolution, just like GT5. GT5 is a more graphically powerful game, I'm just saying that it doesn't look any better then PGR4 or Forza 3"

Those are your words.

Btw, the back of every 360 box says 1080, but that's because each game can upscale. But even if you just meant Forza 3, that's still not accurate. It does not run in 1080p. It's native 720p/60fps with 2x mutli-sampling anti-aliasing. Gran Turismo 5 can run in two modes: 1280x1080p with 2x Quincunx (QAA) or 720p with 4x MSAA. The 1280x1080 mode is not full 1080p either (1920x1080), but there's a 50% increase in the number of pixels rendered from 720p, keeping it ahead of both Forza 3 & PGR4 in regard to resolution. Also, looking at a tech analysis from Digital Foundry, the lighting in GT5: Prologue was the most advanced for a driving game (that's ahead of both Forza 3 & PGR4 - they compared it with Forza 3), so GT5 is obviously ahead there as well. It has a considerable amount more weight put on it's engine than either PGR4 or Forza 3, but only Forza 3 can be compared to it due to genre.

So to say that GT5 doesn't look any better than PGR4 or Forza 3 isn't really true, and even GT5's harshest critics agree that you'd be hard pressed to find a better looking driving game.

I said "I believe the game runs at 1080p", which is different from "PGR4 runs at 1080p." Do you understand the difference? I wasn't sure, that is why I said I believe.

Technically no game runs at 1080p as 1080p is the standing frame resolution. Moving objects blur the image, and after a few seconds 1080p tv's stop being able to hold 1080p resolution for moving objects. Saw that on discovery channel.

Also for Forza 3, I believe there is a way to check the resolution the game runs at, my tv and xbox both say 1080p. It didn't when the game came out, but they patched it. I'm betting the game had issues at launch. They did a lot of patching, I noticed when the game came out your car magically changed gears, but now the driver will change them. I'll have to look into this to verify what I've said, but I'm pretty sure Forza 3 runs at 1080p.

As for graphics, I think all GT5 has on Forza is lighting, Forza 4 will change that though, as it will have a similar lighting system as GT, and multiple false light sources.

My opinion on GT5 graphically is that environments are slightly sub Forza 3, but better then PGR4. I only brought PGR4 into this because Forza 3 lacks city levels. However prenium car models in GT5 look better then in Forza 3. It varies from car to car, I think the Audi R8 looks about as good in Forza 3 as it does in GT5, but in general the 200 prenium cars in GT5 look better then Forza 3 cars, some much better like the Fiat 500. However, Forza 3 has over 500 cars, all which compete graphically with GT5 prenium cars and all have in car views. The other 800 standard cars in GT5 look sub Forza 2 quality. This is why I say graphically GT5 is nothing special. It has it's highlights, but those highlights are limited to 200 cars, where Forza 3 look all around good.

To be honest, I am a little dissapointed in GT5. I'm dissapointed because GT5 doesn't feel like as large of a jump in the franchise as GT3 did, and with such a long development time, I thought the game would be significantly better then Forza 3, but I think it isn't wuiteas good. Forza 3 is a great racing sim, but not perfect, ad I was really hoping GT5 to be almost perfect (except for the difficult career mode). However I found GT5 to be sub Forza 3, and the biggest highlights of the game to me were limited to HD remakes of features in prior GT games (Trail Mountain is my favorite track of all time), immitations from Forza (Levels and car rewards), and the limited prenium cars.

I'm not a GT hater, as much as I might seem like one right now. I'm just a crazy car nut, and I huge fan of both the GT and Forza franchises. I think both GT5 and Forza 3 could have been much better games, but at least with Forza, we know there is a Forza 4 comming out soon which will fix most of the issues Forza 3 had (the lighting for instance), and a lot of the bugs were patched early on. Who knows when a GT6 will come out, and I really doubt all the cars in GT6 will be prenium models. I at least want an in car view on all models, I really want to race my car against my friends and see how it compares, and I want to see how accuratly my car drives in the game, and then push my car in game.

Lets wait 10 weeks to see how the game sells, It's selling well, but GT5 sales will not follow the same trends as GT4 or older GT games. It's being released in the holiday season, which I beleive will boost sales early on, and Americas/Japan sales are down where EMEAA is about on par. Lets wait 10 weeks to be critical, this thread has derailed to a quality debate, and thats just getting silly now.



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CGI you have my respect to be able to bear with his arguments ans statements for so long =D

As for graphics, I think all GT5 has on Forza is lighting, Forza 4 will change that though, as it will have a similar lighting system as GT, and multiple false light sources.

That part killed me. =D



CGI-Quality said:
4k1x3r said:

CGI you have my respect to be able to bear with his arguments ans statements for so long =D

As for graphics, I think all GT5 has on Forza is lighting, Forza 4 will change that though, as it will have a similar lighting system as GT, and multiple false light sources.

That part killed me. =D

I agree, the statement is nothing more than an assumption. Right now, no matter what people thought prior to release, the game has performed well enough in the States, and is doing fantastic in it's strongest region. Japan is the one, true, disappointing region, but looking at other big franchises, GT5's sales are a little less shocking.

Graphically, it's been accepted/noted by most reviews that GT5 is the best looking, most advanced console racing sim. Lens of Truth & Digital Foundry are pretty sharp on tech and they both agree with that.

In short, GT5 isn't perfect (which really shouldn't have been expected nor hyped), and it had more expectation laid upon it than just about any title to date. But it succeeds in satisfying GT fans and it's selling like a franchise of it's caliber is expected to sell: big. We'll see in the upcoming weeks/months how it looks, but I'm willing to bet it ends off 2011 at no lower than 7 mill, 2012 no lower than 8.5-9 mill, and 2013 no lower than 9.5-10 mill, screeching to 10 mill really, but closing it's lifetime numbers @ that total. NA - 2.5mill, Japan - 800,000 mill, EU - 6.7mill

That's what I don't undestand, people who have the right tech to compare GT5 with Forza 3 how it should, have come to the conclusion that GT5 is a better looking game, yet he comes back and tells "No I think""I guess""I believe" (yea I believe alot of things too, not sure they're true or will happen).

@Micheal-5 Dude, try to read again what you said in the whole thread, you'll see that you're full of contradictions in your arguments because... well because when you've been proven wrong, you try to change what you said to make your cluelessness/nonsense appear less obvious.



So GT5 is selling amazing well at the moment, but tbh, this dosent mean its going to be the best selling. we are in the biggest retail month of the year, and GT5 has just come out in the biggest few retail weeks of the year so imo there is a chance thats the sales are more frontloaded that we think. maybe, i'm not stating this as fact, i just dont want to get my hopes up when we dont know how this will do when the hoilday season is over.



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the question is if this christmas sales are killing the legs or if they killed first week sales...



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CGI-Quality said:
John_Doe said:

the question is if this christmas sales are killing the legs or if they killed first week sales...

I can't see Christmas sales killing legs at all. If anything, it's really helped GT5 in America. I think after the holidays, it's most notable legs will be in EMEAA.

Way to stick your neck out, bro.



It's a myth that holiday releases kill legs. Look at Uncharted 2 and MW2. Both released right in the lead up to the holidays but both have had amazing legs. On top of that they're both sequels and by their very nature should be more front-loaded. I still stand by my prediction that GT5 will outsell GT4. GT5 will completely smash GT4 in Asia. After only 12 days shipments were only 10k behind GT4 in that region and GT5 will probably be on top by the end of the quarter.



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Michael-5 said:
XxXProphecyXxX said:
Michael-5 said:
4k1x3r said:

@Jay520

Yep, and if the PS4 has similar structure (eventhough they said they want to make it easier to understand, I'm expecting it to remain the same for some things) then it's gonna rock right from the start. The gap between PS3's and X360's exclusives concerning graphics keeps on widening (until Gears 3 maybe) even multiplat games (AC:B for example looks better than Fable 3) have better graphics than some X360 exclusives. The lack of first party support will be troublesome for Microsoft, Sony on the other hand can offer good games even without thrid party exclusives. The difference between thrid party exclusives and first party, is that first party are completely dedicated to the console, while third party are offently using multiplat engines, and are developing another game in parallel.

The gap between the graphics from the PS3 and 360 keeps growing? I just played GT5, and it does not look any different then Forza 3, which came out a year ago. Sure in car is slightly better, but environments are better in Forza.

Fable 3 is not a graphical game, PS3 has Mod Nation Racers, and that looks the same.

The only game, IMHO that looks a level above the PS3/360 average, is Killzone 2 (not 3, 3D gaming has ruined the graphics in that game). Gears of War 2 won best graphics in 2008 just as frequently as Metal Gear Solid 4, and since then I haven't seen any games (other then Killzone 2) that look better. Sure Heavy Rain looks good, but no better then Mass Effect 2. God of War 3 is no more graphcially powerful then Alan Wake, and really after Killzone 2 there is a massive tie between 360 and PS3 games.

As for this 1st/3rd party comment, it hasn't really afffected 360 sales in the past, why would it start now? I also think MS will likely create or buy more in house studios next gen, they haven't really used Rare since they aquired it

WOW, that statement leads me to belive  that even if PS3 ends up creating a game surpassing crysis visual you would still deny ps3 doesn't have graphical advantage.

seriously if you want to keep beliving that be my guess Im not the one fooling my self.

I finished god of war,Uncharted,KZ2,gears 1 and 2  and have Mass effect 2(PC)  along with Metro2033, and yes best graphic heavy exclusive ps3 has to offer >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>360.

Wake isn't even HD so comparing it to GOW3 is  a joke let alone saying GOW3 isn't any better looking.

Crysis and Mass Effect 2 on PC >>> anything on PS3/360, just want to say that off the bat. I may not notice little graphical differences between Gears/MGS4 because I've seen a lot better, and I don't live in a dream world where little differences in graphics mean anything. The only major difference is PS3/360 > Wii, and there are a handful of games that stand above the normal (Gears, Killzone, MGS, Heavy Rain, Mass Effect, etc).

If you play Mass Effect 2 on PC, you clearly don't play it on max, and no God of War 3 does not look like anything special, Mass Effect 2 on 360 looks better. Killzone 2 is the only standout about the PS3/360 HD crowd. Lol God of War doesn't look that much better then Batman, so don't get all edgy.

so how do all those games that look better and don't look better play? are they fun, cause if where talking just graphic's then both of you are missing the point.