So many wrong things you said there...just soo many.

First of all, I said not being the best will hurt sales, not kill them.

Second MW2 generally got higher ratings then Halo 3 and Reach, which hurt Reach's image. This is one reason why Reach is only selling 7% better then Halo 3 despite over double the userbase.

Third Black Ops meta score is 88/100, Halo Reach is 91/100, the difference is only 3%, thats not much, by no means as big as Forza 3 to GT5 will eventually grow to (currently it's 6%, but like I said after a couple weeks metascores go down).

Forth, it's stupid to judge games by metascores, I generally try to stick with established websites. IGN gave Forza 3 a 9.4/10, and GT5 an 8.5/10. Hence my dissapointment. I expected GT5 to score higher then Forza 3, but scoring a full 9% lower? That not only makes Forza 3 a better game, but of another league in quality. I'm going to play GT5 later today, so I'll judge if that review isn't overly critical, but for now I am not expecting much.

Finally Black Ops sales are not trashing Halo Reach sales, but it is selling better. Black Ops was released during the Holiday season, and just like MW2 it will have a strong sales early on. They will level off though, eventually BOs will outsell Halo Reach, but both games will top 10 million, probably even 12 million. The difference between the two will be at best 2-3 million, which by no means is trashing

So :P meanie

LOL so many fail seriously you point is garbage.

Having lower meta than the competition doesn't deteriorate sales at all, having your franchise have collosal score does(like 3/10 or sumthing).

why does NFS sell less than GT5P? it has higher score.

why does fable 3 sell more than mass effect? it has lower score fable 2 also had lower score than the first mass effect still fable is selling more.

seriously your point is moot just find another one.

NFS in the past has always had a lower score then GT, and it's always sold less.

Fable is a different type of RPG then Mass Effect, and I never said score was the principle medium for sales. I only said a lower score would hurt the game.

Lost Odyssey had a better rating then FFXIII, yet FFXIII sold better. Thats because FF has brand name, how many people know that it was created by the founder of the Final Fantasy series? Lost Odyssey is a 360 exclusive, and RPG's are most popular in Japan. The two don't mix well.

Ratings aren't everything, but in the case of GT, they do affect sales. Take a look at Halo 3: ODST, had that game gotten a 9.5 rating it would have sold much better, it sales dropped to half the normal for Halo and it was only a bit over half a grade lower in score.

Also I never said the poor rating would destroy GT5 sales, only that it would hurt it. Makes complete sence.

I can tell you only posted to tell me off and to annoy me, but do not intend to engage in a proper debate. Otherwise you would come up with a better counter arguement then this. Good-day sir.

So many wrong things you said there...just soo many.

First of all, I said not being the best will hurt sales, not kill them.

Second MW2 generally got higher ratings then Halo 3 and Reach, which hurt Reach's image. This is one reason why Reach is only selling 7% better then Halo 3 despite over double the userbase.

Third Black Ops meta score is 88/100, Halo Reach is 91/100, the difference is only 3%, thats not much, by no means as big as Forza 3 to GT5 will eventually grow to (currently it's 6%, but like I said after a couple weeks metascores go down).

Forth, it's stupid to judge games by metascores, I generally try to stick with established websites. IGN gave Forza 3 a 9.4/10, and GT5 an 8.5/10. Hence my dissapointment. I expected GT5 to score higher then Forza 3, but scoring a full 9% lower? That not only makes Forza 3 a better game, but of another league in quality. I'm going to play GT5 later today, so I'll judge if that review isn't overly critical, but for now I am not expecting much.

Finally Black Ops sales are not trashing Halo Reach sales, but it is selling better. Black Ops was released during the Holiday season, and just like MW2 it will have a strong sales early on. They will level off though, eventually BOs will outsell Halo Reach, but both games will top 10 million, probably even 12 million. The difference between the two will be at best 2-3 million, which by no means is trashing

So :P meanie

So Forza is in another league of quality than GT5 because... IGN said so.

IGN is one website and I doubt many GT fans are gonna skip on GT5 because of one website.

Modern Warfare 2 scored a 9.5 on IGN

Black Ops scored  an 8.5 in IGN

WOW Black Ops scored A FULL TEN POINTS lower than the previous iteration. I guess that hurt it's sales. didn't it?

LOL? annoy you? more like correct you.

ODST didn't sell as well as halo because its not a full fledge HALO game much like how GT5P isn't selling like full GT games and how GT5 will.

Halo reach getting low score like ODST wont hurt its sales, you already said "the brand name" as long as its HALO it wont matter if it scores lower than what it usually does.

Lost odessy is @ 78 FF13 is @ 83.....I don't even know WTF is this for all I know is its wrong.

Fable and Mass effect are both WRPG I don't see how its not comparable,besides your just adding more excuses the real topic here is you said lower scores hurt sales well Fable 3 got significantly lower scores than the previews one yet it opened BETTER further proves my point that YOUR point is moot.

seriously just find another argument this aint cutting it you can do better than this surely.

Brand name will keep GT5 sales high, but I do still feel a low average score will hurt the franchise, especially since it has stronger compeditors. If Forza Motorsport 4 turns out to be amazing, and all the reviews say it's better then GT5, you should see a boost in Forza 4 sales over Forza 2 and 3.

Also brand name only gets you so far, take a look at GT PSP among others.

Also Lost Odyssey sales are significantly lower then FFXII despite similar quality. However thats not all due to brand name, I thought I made that clear.

Okay so if were comparing Fable to Mass Effect, lets start comparing FFXIII to Tales of Vesperia. A Turn Based JRPG to an Action JRPG. They are completly different games. Clearly you have not played Mass Effect or Fable, or both.

and yes your just trying to be annoying.. otherwise you would make valid debatable points instead of just return insults when people have different opinions...ahh...

Valid???? how is your opinion more valid than mine for you to claim im just here to piss off ppl by giving them insights on why they are wrong?

brand name will always prevail to give the game massive sales, doesn't matter if the 2nd installment scored .5 or 3 points more than the 3rd installment IT WILL NOT HURT THE SALES. If mario 1 scores 10/10 and mario 2 scored 8/10 you can bet your ass it will still sell truck load and thers nothing mario clone on another system can do anything about it.

I already told you only if the game gets abysmal scores only then  it will hurt the sales.

Clearly I have not played Mass effect?? LOL! I have Mass effect 1 and Im up to noveria so far but I have played it I also have a fake fable1 copy given from a friend of mine so far im up to twin balde where I have to distract the guards to get pass , so please don't even try.

By valid, I mean an actual point, not just a critisism. Poor choice of words, proper was probably better.

How can I be wrong, do you know GT5's lifetime sales? Are you from 2015? No, this is all opinion, and as long as I have reasoning behind my claims, who are you to tell me I'm wrong? This is why I don't want to debate with you, when your first statement is an insult, and your opinion is somehow more correct then mine without almost any backing, why bother?

Mario is different from GT, sales are more dependant on game type then score. This is why New Super Mario Bros has sold so well in the year before it was bundled, but Super Mario Galaxy hasn't been nearly as successful.

You told me, but why is your opinion greater then mine? 8.5 is a serious enough score to hurt sales, and I never stated that GT5 sales will be terrible because of the score, I only said it will hurt it's sales. Stop trying to defend GT by attacking me, I didn't really even attack the game. If you had actually read my post, you would see your creating a huge fuss over a small adjustment of mine.

Oh wow so your 5 hours into the very first Mass Effect and 5 hours into a last generation Fable game. You must be an expert on the series since you played two of the oldest installments. They are completly different games, they may both be WRPG's, but Mass Effect has a large shooter component to the game, while Fable is more of an Action WRPG, and it incorportates MMO elements. Fable and ME have also drastically changed since their initial installment. You can't compare games this different, it would be like comparing Alan Wake to Heavy Rain, or Gears of War to Uncharted, they are just not the same type of game at all.

Ohh WOW 8.5 is serious to hurt sales? how exactly do you know this? ironic comming from sum1 who just said "are you from the 2015" LOL!!!!

Gears and uncharted are both TPS doesn't matter which way you look @ it, they might have different story and setting but in the end it doesn't change the fact that they are both TPS. ME and Fable too doesnt matter if one goes for medival/fantasy type and the other one goes  for sci-fi space type they are still both WRPG and have the same audience.

Seriously that 8.5 will hurt the sales reason confirmed that I shouldn't bother with you at all.....I litterally  LOLéd @ that I thought it was a joke.