Because it's the best online service on consoles. It's much more stable than PSN, PSN keeps signing me off and I have more lag in my games on PSN than on XBL.
Because it's the best online service on consoles. It's much more stable than PSN, PSN keeps signing me off and I have more lag in my games on PSN than on XBL.
| makingmusic476 said: I see a few people mentioning features here and there, but ultimately you're not paying for features. You get almost all the features of Live with a Silver account. Ultimately, you're paying for online play. I have two problems with this concept: 1. It's unfair to consumers. The majority of 360 games with online multiplayer use a P2P model, in which whoever hosts the game sets up their 360 as a temporary server, and all data for the game is sent back and forth between his and the other players' 360s. To play a game you've already paid for online, you are using hardware that you've already paid for as a host and bandwidth that you've already been charged for to send and recieve data. Even for games that use dedicated servers, server-related costs are handled by EA or whomever, not Microsoft. 2. It's unfair to developers. Imagine you're a developer, and you just finished working on a game with a lengthy singleplayer and robust multiplayer modes. Anybody who buys your game on PS3 or Steam can access all of the content from that game immediately. As it should be, since they paid for it. Paid you for it. On 360, however, they would only be able to access a part of that game unless they're paying for Gold. Microsoft is holding parts of other companies' products hostage to get people to pay for Live. --- Now one could argue that it costs Microsoft money to organize and track a peron's achivements and friends lists, as well as facilitate communication between said friends, and thus they have a right to charge to cover these costs. I would agree in theory, but this is not what you're actually paying for. These features are available to all for free through Silver. You are paying for the "right" to play online. |
Taking about Developers some of EA Dev teams have stated that they prefer the free open nattier of PSN eg Criterion Games. Valve have also now backed the PSN model and are bring STEAM Integration to PSN next year.
Japanese Pop Culture Otaku
| d21lewis said: Is Xbox Live worth it? Is a gold nugget worth it? If you were on an island and all you had was a gold bar, what would it be worth? A cheeseburger? If you had an original copy of Amazing Fantasy #15 (first Appearance of Spider-Man) and it was valued at $500,000 but you could only sell it for $3,000 then what is it worth? It's worth what people are willing to pay for it. Millions of people (myself included) are willing to pay $40-$60 a month for Live so apparently, we think it's worth it. I've already given more than one features list in this thread. If those don't do it for you, then there are other, cheaper, options. Now somebody said that charging a users for Xbox Live isn't very customer friendly. My mind exploded. What!? This isn't a charity. It's a business. Do you think that the PSN is free because Sony loves each and every one of you? The PSN is free because that was a feature that Sony could boast over the 360. It does what it needs to do and people appreciate it. So I have phone lines that run to my house. I have to "pay to unlock phone service". Does the phone company say "Oh, the phone lines are there. We should let d21lewis use the phone for free!" No. There job is to provide a service that makes them money. Somebody has to maintain those lines. Somebody has to make the service work. That costs money. Now I definitely have other options. Cell phones, pay phones (if I could find one), smoke signals, etc. but I have to pay for a house phone. That's the way it works. Go back to the days of the Xbox. I didn't buy an Xbox. The games didn't appeal to me. The controller didn't feel right in my hand. You had to buy a remote for it to even play DVDs. The thing looked horrible. Microsoft sold that console at a loss (about $100 a system if memory serves). Were they being kind to gamers then? And in those days, Xbox Live cost about $50 a year. Look at the transition from those days to now. The service has grown and grown to encompass more and more and the cost (until earlier this year) stayed the same despite tons and tons of improvements. I'm still not sure if MS is making a profit on games. The BILLION dollars spent trying to fix the RRoD and the costs of R&D, maintaining and improving the service, and other variables must cost a ton. Xbox Live is a service that is generally accepted as the best and the consumers apparently don't mind paying for such a service. What makes it better? Like I said, I've already posted two lists. Why do some of you not want Microsoft to make money? Because Sony tried (and regrets, I'm sure) providing it for free? Because the infrastructure of PC gaming is different? At the end of the day, it's business. It's $60 a year. It's $5 a month. After I finish this post, I'm about to go spend that much money for dinner. One meal that will probably last about 45 minutes. It's not that big a deal. Depending on what you want out of it, Xbox Live is either a little better or a LOT better than its direct competition's online. And that's all I have. Later, dudes. |
Heh...it doesn't feel right when you are being serious, I mean sure you made some great points but where's the funny? I'm disappointed :(
thranx said:
|
Australia. Weird, I got one in my arcade bundle and it had it on the back of the box. I assumed it came with every 360 bundle.
Bet with Conegamer and AussieGecko that the PS3 will have more exclusives in 2011 than the Wii or 360... or something.
| makingmusic476 said: I see a few people mentioning features here and there, but ultimately you're not paying for features. You get almost all the features of Live with a Silver account. Ultimately, you're paying for online play. I have two problems with this concept: 1. It's unfair to consumers. The majority of 360 games with online multiplayer use a P2P model, in which whoever hosts the game sets up their 360 as a temporary server, and all data for the game is sent back and forth between his and the other players' 360s. To play a game you've already paid for online, you are using hardware that you've already paid for as a host and bandwidth that you've already been charged for to send and recieve data. Even for games that use dedicated servers, server-related costs are handled by EA or whomever, not Microsoft. 2. It's unfair to developers. Imagine you're a developer, and you just finished working on a game with a lengthy singleplayer and robust multiplayer modes. Anybody who buys your game on PS3 or Steam can access all of the content from that game immediately. As it should be, since they paid for it. Paid you for it. On 360, however, they would only be able to access a part of that game unless they're paying for Gold. Microsoft is holding parts of other companies' products hostage to get people to pay for Live. --- Now one could argue that it costs Microsoft money to organize and track a peron's achivements and friends lists, as well as facilitate communication between said friends, and thus they have a right to charge to cover these costs. I would agree in theory, but this is not what you're actually paying for. These features are available to all for free through Silver. You are paying for the "right" to play online. |
I think this pretty much sums up my feelings on the topic. Good post!
richardhutnik said:
Ok, you can argue a point about the likes of large commercial titles, that sell at the the likes of Game Stop, but how many PS3 downloadable games have demos for them, unless you go plus? Could I, for example, get a demo for Super Star Dust, or the Quest for Booty? Was there a demo for Gran Turismo Prologue? Maybe I am missing something, but I know I would of downloaded a bunch more content to try if it were available. The thing on the 360 is that about everything gets a demo for it. My understanding is that Sony charges people who produce content a fee for how much their content is downloaded. There is a reason they went with Plus, and that was to pay for the bandwidth involved with the downloading of content. |
I don't think you're looking very hard for demos. I find demos for pretty much everything I want. Out of the 3 you pointed out I'm pretty sure I downloaded a demo of SuperStardust HD, and before GT5 Prologue was released (like a year before) they had the GT5 HD Concept, and they've had the limited time GT5 time trial contests to show off the new physics engine. Not sure about Quest for Booty but I know I downloaded a total of 3 Ratchet and Clank demos.
| d21lewis said: Is Xbox Live worth it? Is a gold nugget worth it? If you were on an island and all you had was a gold bar, what would it be worth? A cheeseburger? If you had an original copy of Amazing Fantasy #15 (first Appearance of Spider-Man) and it was valued at $500,000 but you could only sell it for $3,000 then what is it worth? It's worth what people are willing to pay for it. Millions of people (myself included) are willing to pay $40-$60 a month for Live so apparently, we think it's worth it. I've already given more than one features list in this thread. If those don't do it for you, then there are other, cheaper, options. Now somebody said that charging a users for Xbox Live isn't very customer friendly. My mind exploded. What!? This isn't a charity. It's a business. Do you think that the PSN is free because Sony loves each and every one of you? The PSN is free because that was a feature that Sony could boast over the 360. It does what it needs to do and people appreciate it. So I have phone lines that run to my house. I have to "pay to unlock phone service". Does the phone company say "Oh, the phone lines are there. We should let d21lewis use the phone for free!" No. There job is to provide a service that makes them money. Somebody has to maintain those lines. Somebody has to make the service work. That costs money. Now I definitely have other options. Cell phones, pay phones (if I could find one), smoke signals, etc. but I have to pay for a house phone. That's the way it works. Go back to the days of the Xbox. I didn't buy an Xbox. The games didn't appeal to me. The controller didn't feel right in my hand. You had to buy a remote for it to even play DVDs. The thing looked horrible. Microsoft sold that console at a loss (about $100 a system if memory serves). Were they being kind to gamers then? And in those days, Xbox Live cost about $50 a year. Look at the transition from those days to now. The service has grown and grown to encompass more and more and the cost (until earlier this year) stayed the same despite tons and tons of improvements. I'm still not sure if MS is making a profit on games. The BILLION dollars spent trying to fix the RRoD and the costs of R&D, maintaining and improving the service, and other variables must cost a ton. Xbox Live is a service that is generally accepted as the best and the consumers apparently don't mind paying for such a service. What makes it better? Like I said, I've already posted two lists. Why do some of you not want Microsoft to make money? Because Sony tried (and regrets, I'm sure) providing it for free? Because the infrastructure of PC gaming is different? At the end of the day, it's business. It's $60 a year. It's $5 a month. After I finish this post, I'm about to go spend that much money for dinner. One meal that will probably last about 45 minutes. It's not that big a deal. Depending on what you want out of it, Xbox Live is either a little better or a LOT better than its direct competition's online. And that's all I have. Later, dudes. |
Well, you nail almost everything I want to say. I am sure Sony wants to charge for PSN so bad. We used to get things for free in the Internet era and forget that this is all about business.
Scoobes said:
I think this pretty much sums up my feelings on the topic. Good post! |
I thought people paid the sub because it had dedicated servers?
Ajescent said:
I thought people paid the sub because it had dedicated servers? |
Which is false and why I personally think the cost is such a rip off. If MS had helped devs and pubs setup dedicated servers for many of the games the it'd be a different issue. Fact is, more games on PS3 (mainly 1st party admitedly) have dedicated servers than on X-box Live.
And on PC it's virtually all games that have dedicated servers (again for free bar MMOs).
Just throwing this out there, but as a PS3 fanboy and not using much of Live I will say that for what you do get in Gold is worth 60 dollars (70 now?). Now what I'm going to talk about , I have no idea if it's available for silver or not, but the ability to download my profile to any 360 with all my games, to be able to download my saves to any 360 and keep up cloud storage, demos, videos, etc, match making, cross game catch etc, is worth the 60 dollars you spend and that alone makes it worth the money. Now they added ESPN and other stuff (I'm not including facebook integration or anything like that cause let's be frank, use a PC or your PS3's web browser. Hell your mobile phone would probably be better to use) and they raised the price of Live and that is worth it for the extras. Now here's where the counter argument comes into play; game hosts. That's the most crucial part of gold, playing games online. You can cut all that crap out and the most important thing is playing games. Here's the argument against Live; games have become peer to peer and you're now paying money to use your bandwidth that you're already paying for to host a game. That to me is fail and you can't argue against that cause now Microsoft is charging you to use something that costs you money. It's like paying for the air you breath, it's ludicrus. Now before on the X-box all games had access to dedicated servers and it's all gone now, and I personally feel anyone paying for Live to just play games is essentially having their money stolen by Microsoft. And that is personally why I refuse to pay for Live. Now with that out of the way the overall service is very good, integrated well, and has a lot of features and Microsoft was ahead of the game with its cloud storage of profiles and such (Though Steam might be able to match it, though I don't use steam much to see if it works as well). On another note: as far as I know the price is going up here in Canada and we're getting none of the features that have driven up the costs (ESPN and probably other things, though I'm sure the ESPN deal was the major cost increase). To sum up is Live better than PSN? Of course it is, it's quite better and is worth every penny. But on the other hand if I only want to play games with my friends, the core of the service, it's a huge ripoff; why? Cause Microsoft is paying for nothing outside of their match making servers and cross game chat. Now I put this idea foward: turn Gold into a core account charge the minimum to run cross game chat and match making servers, and add on a small price hike for a profit. Move all that extra non-game related stuff and the extra game related stuff (cloud storage) and put that into a platinum and charge whatever the hell they want. If I had people playing on the 360 only that I want to play with; I'll gladly pay a smaller fee for just the core service of match making and cross game chat, kinda like what Sony did (PSN regular for gaming is gaming only and free, everything else extra you don't care about is on a fee, if you want it then go right ahead and pay for it). Now can we stop having these threads? There's a bajillion of these in the forums already going over these points.
