well, this zerg player, FruitDealer, is just the most AMAZING SC2 Zerg player i have ever seen
Time to Work !
well, this zerg player, FruitDealer, is just the most AMAZING SC2 Zerg player i have ever seen
Time to Work !
I remeber it was about 4-5 months into playing Lord of the Rings: Battle for Middle Earth, during all that time Mordor was a joke to beat and everyone just stomped over them. But without even a patch it suddenly changed and Mordor players started to dominate the game quite easily. Point is they dont want to patch things too soon and probally even when they do they wont make to drastic changes just incase they make things worse.
I can only imagine if they buffed Mordor before people worked out how powefull they already were, was not possible for Isengaurd to beat them in any way and the others had a very hard time.
| scottie said: I have been watching a few of my friends play a lot of multiplayer games, and have made the realisation.
* Rushing is the only possible strategy * There are a variety of different units which, if you make nothing but them and a very low scale economy, you can rush * These rush strategies each have a different counter * Unless you are an idiot, the chance of your opponent determining what form of rush you are doing in time is statistically insignificant. If your opponent is Terran, it becomes significant, but still very low * It is not possible to employ all of the rush counter strategies, unless you simply rush military production and use it for defence or counter attack * A large percentage of the people that my friends have played against have bitched about having been rushed in the previous game, and then qq when my friends rush them.
This game seems vastly inferior to Starcraft 1 - the balance between rush and long term is fucked, and the small advantage that Terran had in SC1 has been expanded upon, now Terran are VERY OP.
The two main people I've been watching are someone who played obscene amount of Age of Empire 2, and DOTA and was tournament level good, and is now getting his arse handed to him as Protoss and not rushing. The other plays Terran and rushes, and has a very high win/loss ratio. He is an alright RTS player, but not great. The guy who has been playing Protoss is now playing Zerg vs A.I. to learn how to mount an effective rush with them.
I predict in about 2 months time, anyone who doesn't rush will either have given up on the game, or will have started rushing |
Wrong, wrong, and wrong!
Rushing is an excellent strategy but is always easily countered. I get rushed often but you know how I beat it? I assume they're going to do it.
I play a lot of Protoss and being a Protoss stopping any rush dead in its tracks couldn't be simpler. It's called Sentries. If I have two sentries I can stop my opponent on my ramp for 30 seconds, that's plenty of time to deal with whatever they're throwing at me.
It's amazing how so many people don't know how to deal with various rushes of any kind. Again, I play Protoss a lot and I enjoy doing Dark Templay rush. Why? Because almost nobody builds detectors in the first 10 minutes and Terran waste all their energy getting mules.
Starcraft II is all about letting the other person make a mistake before you do. If that mistake is not preparing for a rush, you win. If I rush, see you've prepared for it, and then keep rushing, they win.
| BrayanA said: Rushing is a part of the game. You need to scout and to understand when your oponent is going to rush. At the beggining you can send a probe to scout, then you can send an observer. I have problems with zerg roach rushes untill I learned to scout and prevent. So if you play toss vs zerg you need to have always 3 things in your mind: 2. roach rush - early gas, late pool, few lings, early roach warren - go for quick Immortals 3. muta rush - quick Lair - check for spire if you see one do more anti air You need not only to make counter units and to wait your opponent to come to you, but to attack him before he switched to other types. If you see that your opponent is making many roaches supported with a few ligs, go for a lot of stalkers with few immortals and attack him, before he put hydras around them. |
If you're playing protoss and going against Zerg, survive their initial rush and then just A move five zealots in their base. If they don't have a spine crawler you win, make them pay for rushing you.
Any time you have just taken out an army, your opponent is weakened. If you still have a fair number of units left after an attack, attack your opponent. Especially if they're zerg.
Defeating a zergling rush is so easy as a protoss. Building two pylons and a gateway at your ramp, leave enough room for a zealot and then just have him hold position. He will kill every zergling thrown at him unless they just keep coming. In that case, just keep another zealot behind the first one. In the meantime, keep a few stalkers on the other side of the pylons.
After that initial wave of zerglins bounce off your single zealot, A move all your zealots into his base and proceed to laugh at him.
Also, if you're playing against a bronze player Dark Templar rush will almost always work. If you're playing against a silver player, build a pylon in the middle of nowhere on the map so you can build your Templar Archives, Dark Shrine, and Robo Bay without your opponent knowing what you're doing and dark templars will still work most of the time. Games that I DT rush I generally win in under 10 minutes because people just don't build detectors.
If you're really worried about zerg and they haven't attacked you for a while then just build two pylons and two photon cannons at their ramp. Force them to tech up or waste a shitload of money getting their zerglins and roaches past that small blockade. In the meantime, you get all the time you want to tech up and you see what's coming.
Those proposed changes for the Terran are awful. All it does is heavily weaken the Terran's early game, giving them fewer choices in how to open up. These type of changes only force people into the same builds, making the game boring. If there's a problem with reapers, they should just change the unit itself (which should've happened a long time ago, IMO)
The zerg buildings' increased health is a welcome change. The Spire at 600, for example, is obviously way too low. This isn't SC1, buildings in this game are sniped much easier.
Nice to see a Stalker nerf though, however minor. I still think they need more work, though!
| r505Matt said: WHOA, just stumbled on some possible patch notes, http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/761331 # We're increasing roach range. This will allow roaches to be more effective in large groups, giving the zerg more options in the mid to end game. These are big, the roach range will actually make them a strong, viable choice early game depending on how big of a difference it is. FG vs Stalkers was an issue, so it's nice to see that. The health, gooood, hope hatch/lair/hive gets a huge boost, marauder drops are crazy strong, 3 filled medivacs, and the hatch is down in like 5 seconds. It's more about spire sniping though. But the other 2 are HUGE. Reapers are being nerfed into uselessness, just like Ultra. Well, at least, they won't be the harass unit they used to be, instead they might be like hydra, back-row dps. But needing a supply depot before you can build a rax? All Terran rushes are destroyed. I guess they realized that unscouted 2proxy rax marine rush was a little too strong. Scouted, no problem, but the window was tiny. Man, if this is true (and it's an official post so it should be) 6rax and 8rax reaper rushes are gone. Also, I usually 10 depot 10 rax, so I won't be able to do that now, I'll have to wait for the depot to finish, meaning I'm down maybe 1 marine the entire game. Not really game-changing for normal Terran builds, but proxying is just destroyed with this patch. Heck, sometimes I 10 rax 10 depot 10 gas, 12 orbital, 13 rax. That's gone after this patch =P |
that could be interesting, but kinda worries me a little that they may hurt Terran to much with that especially vs Zerg, oh well they should know what they are doing. Oh and I heard via twitter that there will be some map changes http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/761328#blog
Desert Oasis and Kulas Ravine have been removed from the 1v1 ladder pool and replaced with Jungle Basin and Shakuras Plateau, respectively. While Desert Oasis and Kulas Ravine are no longer available for 1v1 ladder games, they remain playable in custom games.
@TheVoxelman on twitter
Are you describing Starcraft or Halo Wars?
| 19:44:34 | Skeezer | METAL GEAR ONLINE |
| 19:44:36 | Skeezer | FAILURE |
| 19:44:51 | ABadClown | You're right! |
| 19:44:55 | ABadClown | Hur hur hur |
| 19:45:01 | Skeezer | i meant |
| 19:45:04 | Skeezer | YOU ARE A FAILKURE |
| 19:45:08 | Skeezer | FAILURE* |
| r505Matt said: WHOA, just stumbled on some possible patch notes, http://eu.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/761331 # We're increasing roach range. This will allow roaches to be more effective in large groups, giving the zerg more options in the mid to end game. These are big, the roach range will actually make them a strong, viable choice early game depending on how big of a difference it is. FG vs Stalkers was an issue, so it's nice to see that. The health, gooood, hope hatch/lair/hive gets a huge boost, marauder drops are crazy strong, 3 filled medivacs, and the hatch is down in like 5 seconds. It's more about spire sniping though. But the other 2 are HUGE. Reapers are being nerfed into uselessness, just like Ultra. Well, at least, they won't be the harass unit they used to be, instead they might be like hydra, back-row dps. But needing a supply depot before you can build a rax? All Terran rushes are destroyed. I guess they realized that unscouted 2proxy rax marine rush was a little too strong. Scouted, no problem, but the window was tiny. Man, if this is true (and it's an official post so it should be) 6rax and 8rax reaper rushes are gone. Also, I usually 10 depot 10 rax, so I won't be able to do that now, I'll have to wait for the depot to finish, meaning I'm down maybe 1 marine the entire game. Not really game-changing for normal Terran builds, but proxying is just destroyed with this patch. Heck, sometimes I 10 rax 10 depot 10 gas, 12 orbital, 13 rax. That's gone after this patch =P |
That sounds like a good idea to me, weakening Terran rushes and strengthening Zerg a bit.
From the sounds of it, a lot of people don't agree that there is much of a problem, especially in the higher leagues
I have no idea what you are talking about ...
Yesterday I played 4 2v2s (with a bronze lvl player, I'm a silver lvl player) and won 3 of them, although we were rushed in every single game. My partner was crushed in every game and I single handedly won 3 of them, because I go for economy builds and hence I am far far far stronger than rushing players in mid game.
It's good that rush plays are possible, but in no way they are too strong in SC2, they are just easier to execute for very low lvl players, because to build an economy you need quite a bit apm (mine is at ~50-55apm per game, which is still pretty low, but with 30-40apm there is pretty much no way to handle an econ build).
| Lafiel said: I have no idea what you are talking about ... Yesterday I played 4 2v2s (with a bronze lvl player, I'm a silver lvl player) and won 3 of them, although we were rushed in every single game. My partner was crushed in every game and I single handedly won 3 of them, because I go for economy builds and hence I am far far far stronger than rushing players in mid game. It's good that rush plays are possible, but in no way they are too strong in SC2, they are just easier to execute for very low lvl players, because to build an economy you need quite a bit apm (mine is at ~50-55apm per game, which is still pretty low, but with 30-40apm there is pretty much no way to handle an econ build). |
hehe, we are in the same league (level and apm)
Time to Work !