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Forums - General - Is athiesm a belief? What is "God?"

wfz said:
mysticwolf said:

I don't want to get involved in this. I shouldn't even have posted...


Your choice, but I am confused as to why you backed out so early.

 

I did read the link you gave, and I don't see why proof of how life on this planet was started means that any sort of God can't exist. It gives evidence against well known modern-day religions, yeah, but how does it disprove that God exists in any fashion?

I know you're not returning, but maybe someone else will pick this up and answer it.

HI, sometimes I lurk around threads even if I think I'm done posting.

You're right.

I could argue about God both ways, so I guess it's not really as important to me as it is to other people.



 Been away for a bit, but sneaking back in.

Gaming on: PS4, PC, 3DS. Got a Switch! Mainly to play Smash

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Torillian said:
wfz said:
whatever said:

If there is this all powerful being, where did he come from?


He? You're classifying God as a living being and as all-powerful. I never said God had to be that way. But that's what I'm so confused about, what are the bare-bones basics for qualifying "God?"

Well every religion I can think of the gods are sentient beings and have powers no human possesses so I think that would be the bare bones minimum. 


Okay, but why would you want to limit the idea of God to something like that? I understand that for the sake of discussing modern-day religions, it's important in order to discuss the topic, but then why do Atheists go so far as to discount that God exists in any form whatsoever?

 

Or is Atheism really "We don't believe that any God exists at all like any religions believe, but IT might exist in a different fashion."

But then that sounds more like agnosticism.



wfz said:
Torillian said:
wfz said:
whatever said:

If there is this all powerful being, where did he come from?


He? You're classifying God as a living being and as all-powerful. I never said God had to be that way. But that's what I'm so confused about, what are the bare-bones basics for qualifying "God?"

Well every religion I can think of the gods are sentient beings and have powers no human possesses so I think that would be the bare bones minimum. 


Okay, but why would you want to limit the idea of God to something like that? I understand that for the sake of discussing modern-day religions, it's important in order to discuss the topic, but then why do Atheists go so far as to discount that God exists in any form whatsoever?

 

Or is Atheism really "We don't believe that any God exists at all like any religions believe, but IT might exist in a different fashion."

But then that sounds more like agnosticism.

But if you can just assign any definition to God like the laws of physics then I could say that if Atheists believe in toasters than they aren't true Atheists because what if I define God as the toaster?

That's obviously an extreme and silly case, but the idea of a god in every religion is that of a sentient being with power over human beings and that is what atheists don't believe in.  It's the same way I don't believe in fate or karma.  The laws of physics  have no sentience about them so I do not see them as a god.



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whatever said:

If there is this all powerful being, where did he come from?


Lamest question in history. I can ask the same thing just reverse it, where did everything needed for the big bang come from?



Torillian said:
wfz said:
Torillian said:
wfz said:
whatever said:

If there is this all powerful being, where did he come from?


He? You're classifying God as a living being and as all-powerful. I never said God had to be that way. But that's what I'm so confused about, what are the bare-bones basics for qualifying "God?"

Well every religion I can think of the gods are sentient beings and have powers no human possesses so I think that would be the bare bones minimum. 


Okay, but why would you want to limit the idea of God to something like that? I understand that for the sake of discussing modern-day religions, it's important in order to discuss the topic, but then why do Atheists go so far as to discount that God exists in any form whatsoever?

 

Or is Atheism really "We don't believe that any God exists at all like any religions believe, but IT might exist in a different fashion."

But then that sounds more like agnosticism.

But if you can just assign any definition to God like the laws of physics then I could say that if Atheists believe in toasters than they aren't true Atheists because what if I define God as the toaster?

That's obviously an extreme and silly case, but the idea of a god in every religion is that of a sentient being with power over human beings and that is what atheists don't believe in.  It's the same way I don't believe in fate or karma.  The laws of physics  have no sentience about them so I do not see them as a god.

Alright so a God has to be sentient. But what if there is an amazing force out there that started everything and gave order to this world, but it wasn't necessarily living?

Or what if some sentient being created the Laws of Physics and then left this dimension/space indefinitely? Atheists just believe that it is impossible for such a thing?

If we can put a name to encompass everything that governs us, like the Laws of Physics (and anything else) then would the creator of that be considered God? How about that definition? Or what if all those properties just somehow came about by their own, then is it wrong to view inanimate things that govern us as God or Gods?



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raptors11 said:
whatever said:

If there is this all powerful being, where did he come from?


Lamest question in history. I can ask the same thing just reverse it, where did everything needed for the big bang come from?

Nice non-answer.  As is expected for those that believe blindly.

The big bang, as with any scientific theory, is constantly trying to be proven and disproven.  Striving to find answers is the exact opposite of any religion, since they already claim to have all the answers.



wfz said:
Torillian said:
 

But if you can just assign any definition to God like the laws of physics then I could say that if Atheists believe in toasters than they aren't true Atheists because what if I define God as the toaster?

That's obviously an extreme and silly case, but the idea of a god in every religion is that of a sentient being with power over human beings and that is what atheists don't believe in.  It's the same way I don't believe in fate or karma.  The laws of physics  have no sentience about them so I do not see them as a god.

Alright so a God has to be sentient. But what if there is an amazing force out there that started everything and gave order to this world, but it wasn't necessarily living?

Or what if some sentient being created the Laws of Physics and then left this dimension/space indefinitely? Atheists just believe that it is impossible for such a thing?

If we can put a name to encompass everything that governs us, like the Laws of Physics (and anything else) then would the creator of that be considered God? How about that definition? Or what if all those properties just somehow came about by their own, then is it wrong to worship inanimate things that govern us as God or Gods?

That would depend on how you qualify living, if you mean that the God created the world and then died then I would say there's no point in praying to something that can't hear you.

Same as above.

I would say that there's no point in worshipping an inanimate thing that governs you because that will have no affect on how the inanimate thing governs you.  You can thank a tree for giving you oxygen to breath but the tree doesn't really care so I as an atheist don't care to participate.  I won't scorn you for doing so if it helps you be happy, though.  Even if the tree doesn't care about you thanking it if it makes you feel better that's reason enough.

edit: the issue I think you're going to have through this discussion is that being an atheist doesn't require any specific set of beliefs so I can't talk about what all atheists believe only what I personally believe and why I personally do not pray to any god.



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wfz said:

I want an opinion from some Atheists as to why God could never exist.

Gods, such as the Juedo-Christian God, who look like a humans, act like humans, have human flaws, and so forth does not exist.  These gods are the creation of men who gave their creation human traits.



It is impossible to prove the non-existence of something, and therefore there is a leap-of-faith associated with atheism that is required to arrive at the belief that god does not exist. Agnosticism on the other hand is a perfectly rational position.

Basically, atheism is just as much of a religion as Evangelical Christianity with the primary difference being that the Christians are dramatically more organized.



Torillian said:
wfz said:
Torillian said:
 

But if you can just assign any definition to God like the laws of physics then I could say that if Atheists believe in toasters than they aren't true Atheists because what if I define God as the toaster?

That's obviously an extreme and silly case, but the idea of a god in every religion is that of a sentient being with power over human beings and that is what atheists don't believe in.  It's the same way I don't believe in fate or karma.  The laws of physics  have no sentience about them so I do not see them as a god.

Alright so a God has to be sentient. But what if there is an amazing force out there that started everything and gave order to this world, but it wasn't necessarily living?

Or what if some sentient being created the Laws of Physics and then left this dimension/space indefinitely? Atheists just believe that it is impossible for such a thing?

If we can put a name to encompass everything that governs us, like the Laws of Physics (and anything else) then would the creator of that be considered God? How about that definition? Or what if all those properties just somehow came about by their own, then is it wrong to worship inanimate things that govern us as God or Gods?

That would depend on how you qualify living, if you mean that the God created the world and then died then I would say there's no point in praying to something that can't hear you.

Same as above.

I would say that there's no point in worshipping an inanimate thing that governs you because that will have no affect on how the inanimate thing governs you.  You can thank a tree for giving you oxygen to breath but the tree doesn't really care so I as an atheist don't care to participate.  I won't scorn you for doing so if it helps you be happy, though.  Even if the tree doesn't care about you thanking it if it makes you feel better that's reason enough.

edit: the issue I think you're going to have through this discussion is that being an atheist doesn't require any specific set of beliefs so I can't talk about what all atheists believe only what I personally believe and why I personally do not pray to any god.


Ack you caught my post before i edited it. I took out worshiped because it was a blatantly wrong word to use. I don't think we should worship any God. The idea is silly to me. So yes I agree with you there. I also don't think we should pray to any God or expect any help or intervention. I didn't want you to think I meant that!

I don't think we need to thank, worship, or praise any God whether it's animate or inanimate.

When I talk of atheists "believing" I mean just the fact that they believe there is no God. It would be impossible to prove that God doesn't exist in any form, so it's a belief. Right? I don't mean it's a belief in the same sense of religious belief at all.