By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - General Discussion - What's your point of view in the Hiroshima and Nagasaki atomic bomb?

Anyone who looks at the actual research and alternatives would have to agree it was by far the best option.  There is litereally no debate.

 

The other two options for were


A) Blockading and bombing japan conventionally, which would of led to the deaths of WAY more people as Japans food production was all located in one area.   Every other area would of starved due to their roads and means of production being destroyed.


B) An invasion that would of cost more lives.... AND more innocent lives due to the japanese planned defense of training children and women to help fight the ground war. 

Not to mention.

C)  Either A or B but also with Russia invading and Japan ending up like Korea.


I mean, what other mirace option was there at this point?  This is one of those few opinion type questions where you can just be outright wrong.

Also, it's worth noting that neither bombing was the worst allied bombings in the war.

THAT would go to the firebombing of Dresden by the british.  Which was actually unessisary, killed more people and had more negative aftereffects.  Yet nobody brings it up.

The only good thing that came out of it was Kurt Vonnoguet books.



Around the Network
KichiVerde said:


ORLY? Then it must be real reason for nuking them! I'm sorry I had such awful doubts about the government, it looks like they really cared about all those poor Japanese... -.-

I didn't say they cared about the Japanese, they wanted to end the war and unless the Japanese unconditionally surrendered, they were going to level the country with conventional weaponry, which WOULD have led to more deaths.

On a side point, I'd like to clarify a point I never brought up earlier: while I support the American decision to drop the bomb on HIroshima to put an exclamation point on the war and force an *unconditional* surrender, I definitely question the decision to drop the second bomb on Nagasaki. In my opinion, the first bomb proved the point. A few weeks should have been allowed to pass to give the Japanese time to adjust to the shock of having a city decimated. It seemed superfluous and rather cruel to me. A second city shouldn't have suffered that fate.

True. The second bomb should not have been dropped. The threat of a second bomb following the Hiroshima blast would have been enough to force the surrender. But the Americans were not willing to risk it. They wanted to end the war ASAP before the Russian took more control of Asia.

Once the war ended, the first thing the US Navy did was land in Incheon to keep the Russians from taking all of the Korean Peninsula. Had the Russians been given a few more weeks Korea as a whole would suck right now. But even so I think the war would have ended before then. Once the reports of Japanese losses in Manchuria to the Russians (assault took place directly after Hiroshima bombing) would have been confirmed they would have thrown in the towel. The triple whammy of Hiroshima A-bomb, Manchurian military losses and second possibility of A-bomb would have been enough.

It was all a power play between Russia and the US, and Japan got caught in the middle. The US wanted to end the war and flex their military might. Russia wanted to take advantage of Japan's weakening position to take control of all their North Eastern Asian possessions. But Japan was not the victim. They created that situation themselves.

As for the Hiroshima bomb, it was a must. Anyone who thinks otherwise is either a naive liberal or someone who chooses to misinterpret the facts..

Except... it wasn't enough to force a surrender.

Japan wasn't going to surrender after the first bomb.  The emperor wanted to surrender but by this point he was being controlled by his generals.

Hell after the SECOND bomb japan almost didnt' surrender because the guy the emeporer sent to offically surrender was almost interecepted by agents of the generals.

Only after the second bomb was the emperor freed up enough to surrender.

The generals were still trying to force in effect an american surrender by forcing them to let Japan keep some of it's conquests rather then have to lose way too many troops in a ground war.



My point is that three days wasn't enough time to properly scare the shit out of the Japanese and convince them to surrender.

Instead of dropping the Nagasaki bomb three days after Hiroshima, a nice public announcement of "hey, we have more of these and we're not afraid to use them" to the Japanese government couldn't have hurt. 4-5 days weren't going to make or break anything in the war.

I just don't see the point of destroying a second city until all other reasonable options had been explored.




Or check out my new webcomic: http://selfcentent.com/

rocketpig said:

My point is that three days wasn't enough time to properly scare the shit out of the Japanese and convince them to surrender.

Instead of dropping the Nagasaki bomb three days after Hiroshima, a nice public announcement of "hey, we have more of these and we're not afraid to use them" to the Japanese government couldn't have hurt. 4-5 days weren't going to make or break anything in the war.

I just don't see the point of destroying a second city until all other reasonable options had been explored.

It would of been good if they would of waited... I don't disagree with that.

but the historical documents show the result would of been the same anyway.  Just 4-5 days later.



rocketpig said:
bazmeistergen said:
rocketpig said:
FreeTalkLive said:

I've of the opinion that all war is wrong in all cases.  The world would be a better place without war.

Obviously the world would be a better place without war. That statement is so obvious and vapid that it hurts.

How can war be wrong in all cases? Sometimes, other people force your hand. Do you really think Britain and France wanted to fight Germany? What do you suggest they should have done? Accepted German invasion and allowed the Nazis to pick through their "less desirable" citizens and execute them at will?

I understand pacifism. What I don't understand is naivete and the inability to understand that other people are bad and sometimes, they will try to kill you for no good reason.

Britain and France were unlikely to have been attacked had they not declared war on Germany after the invasion of Poland.


You have to be joking. Hitler wasn't going to stop after Poland, just like he didn't stop after Austria and just like he didn't stop after Czechoslavakia. It was appeasement that got western powers to that point in the first place and Hitler wasn't going to sit pat after taking over a huge chunk of central Europe.

Or do you think he aggressively pursued a Soviet pact in August of 1939 just "in case"? He knew he could only fight on one front and was going to actively pursue his revenge on the powers that put Germany in the state it was in after the Versailles Treaty.

It's not a joke.

If you read Mein Kampf and listen to his speeches, it seems highly feasible, if not probable that Hitler would have not attempted war with western powers. He respected them AND clearly stated many times that the lebensraum he desired was in the east where the so-called inferior races dwelled.

Doesn't mean I can't understand the British and French declarations of war.



Yes.

www.spacemag.org - contribute your stuff... satire, comics, ideas, debate, stupidy stupid etc.

Around the Network
hallowedbeeddie said:
Chairman-Mao said:

It had to be done. War is cruel and the USA had the biggest bomb. I really don't get why there's so much controversy.



so I guess the deaths of thousands of people is not enough to create controversy


Sorry i was banned so I couldn't respond.

But no in war the death of thousands is just collateral damage. If it wasn't during a world war it would be terrible.



http://www.medialens.org/cogitations/080115_racing_towards_the.php

Some very interesting points raised here.



Yes.

www.spacemag.org - contribute your stuff... satire, comics, ideas, debate, stupidy stupid etc.

Specifically...

In a careful account of events leading up to the atomic bombing, historian Peter Kuznick cites the Pacific Strategic Intelligence Summary for the week of the Potsdam meeting:

t may be said that Japan now, officially if not publicly, recognizes her defeat. Abandoning as unobtainable the long-cherished goal of victory, she has turned to the twin aims of (a) reconciling national pride with defeat, and (b) finding the best means of salvaging the wreckage of her ambitions.” 

Colonel Charles Bonesteel, chief of the War Department Operations Division Policy Section, recalled: "the poor damn Japanese were putting feelers out by the ton so to speak, through Russia.”[13] Allen Dulles of the Office of Strategic Services (precursor to the CIA) briefed Henry Stimson, the U.S. Secretary of War, at Potsdam. He wrote:

"On July 20, 1945, under instructions from Washington, I went to the Potsdam Conference and reported there to Secretary Stimson on what I had learned from Tokyo--they desired to surrender if they could retain the Emperor and the constitution as a basis for maintaining discipline and order in Japan after the devastating news of surrender became known to the Japanese people."



Yes.

www.spacemag.org - contribute your stuff... satire, comics, ideas, debate, stupidy stupid etc.

Bravo and I demand an encore, this time more to the west and south of the first bombs.

Honestly though it was a great move, but I am happy they didn't bomb the rest of Japan or they may have killed the girl I'm datings grand mom before she was concieved. Which since I'm enjoying her company a lot would of been a bad thing. =D

I guess most people on the internet would agree because they wouldn't have anime if they carpet nuked Japan.

Honestly though this just makes the Arabic world look like it's getting off easy. Japan attacked American military while a militia in the middle east attacked American civilians, if I were G.W.B. there would be the first man made ocean where the penninsula is right now.

Nukes are weapons, and since I believe in reacting with devistating force vs reacting with equal force I'm pro nukes.

This is to say that if 3000 of my countrymen die that I believe that 3,000,000 of their countrymen must die. ^_^

Likewise if someone should drop a nuke on my countrymen then 40 nukes should be dropped on theirs. 

This is the case only with civilian attacks though, military attacks are a different case. But attacking a civilian would place me on the defense and that means I would be fighting to survive despite any of my advantages.



I'm Unamerica and you can too.

The Official Huge Monster Hunter Thread: 



The Hunt Begins 4/20/2010 =D

It's a sad event, but it brought a much greater outcome.

Millions more would have died if the US and USSR had invaded Japan and took the country through a drawn out campaign.



"We'll toss the dice however they fall,
And snuggle the girls be they short or tall,
Then follow young Mat whenever he calls,
To dance with Jak o' the Shadows."

Check out MyAnimeList and my Game Collection. Owner of the 5 millionth post.