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Forums - General Discussion - Atheism and morality

pizzahut451 said:
chocoloco said:

Well as an atheist I like to kill, rape, pilage, steal, make child pornagraphy and basically just not give a fuck about anyone but myself. Oh yeah and I like to drown puppies.

 

To so that atheists have no morals is to say morals are absolute, only a self rightous religous person could say that especially when morals can never really be proved to be universal.

 

 

Look at the prison populations and tell me that most of them are not Christians in America.

They are not.

Proof?



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If anything, Atheists are more 'moral' than the rest of society as we have the lowest crime rates of all 'religious' groups, though that probably has more to do with atheists tending to be more educated and wealthy, which are better predictions of likelihood to commit crime.



ManusJustus said:

If anything, Atheists are more 'moral' than the rest of society as we have the lowest crime rates of all 'religious' groups, though that probably has more to do with atheists tending to be more educated and wealthy, which are better predictions of likelihood to commit crime.

You shouldn't forget about white collar (tax fraud etc.).



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

shio said:

Atheists' morality comes from logic and sense. Atheists and Agnostics don't need to be told that murder, rape and theft are wrong to know it.

Absolutely true, and thats not to mention that atheists tend to be more liberal, so they support things like gay marriage, women's rights, healthcare for poor, and so forth.  You can argue that these aren't teh correct morals to have, but they are morals nonetheless.

I think Western atheist morality owes its origins to Greco-Roman philosophy instead of Middle Eastern, Abrahamic religions.



ManusJustus said:
shio said:

Atheists' morality comes from logic and sense. Atheists and Agnostics don't need to be told that murder, rape and theft are wrong to know it.

Absolutely true, and thats not to mention that atheists tend to be more liberal, so they support things like gay marriage, women's rights, healthcare for poor, and so forth.  You can argue that these aren't teh correct morals to have, but they are morals nonetheless.

I think Western atheist morality owes its origins to Greco-Roman philosophy instead of Middle Eastern, Abrahamic religions.

Like I said in another post, Chrisitanity borrowed several ethical principles from the Greek philosophers.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

Around the Network
mai said:

As people have mentioned not quite right. Morale is a very pragmatic phenomenon that society needs to survive, most of moral prohibitions and guidelines are based around natural rules that could be easily explained (sometimes even biological rules, such as ban on incest in most cultures), of course, eventually some of them became imperatives that not necessarily need to or even could be explained.

True while many are morals can come from either the need to survive or as sapphi_snake said 'Greek philosophers' it is religious that spread these morals and religion that put them down in writing for generations to follow. 

Take examples from differing faiths. Older faiths would regularly do sacrifices both human and animal, while in our western society which is based on mostly old testament laws and morals we would see these as morally bad, in those faiths at those times, a sacrifice may not have been as seen as bad but something to 'please the gods'. It is the faiths and religions that are defining what is moral.

It is recently when atheism has taken hold that many of those morals, like sacrifice was seen by newer/old testament faiths and others as more barbaric and immoral, that what the faiths see as immoral just aren't anymore as defined by understanding.



Hmm, pie.

sapphi_snake said:
pizzahut451 said:
chocoloco said:

Well as an atheist I like to kill, rape, pilage, steal, make child pornagraphy and basically just not give a fuck about anyone but myself. Oh yeah and I like to drown puppies.

 

To so that atheists have no morals is to say morals are absolute, only a self rightous religous person could say that especially when morals can never really be proved to be universal.

 

 

Look at the prison populations and tell me that most of them are not Christians in America.

They are not.

Proof?

the fact they comitted a crime and they are in prison



if there were good moral examples of atheists to hold up then people wouldnt assume they are amoral.



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ManusJustus said:

If anything, Atheists are more 'moral' than the rest of society as we have the lowest crime rates of all 'religious' groups, though that probably has more to do with atheists tending to be more educated and wealthy, which are better predictions of likelihood to commit crime.


just a fiiiiiiine example of arrogance that is so incredibly high among atheists



It all comes down to where you think ethics come from...

I've studied this to a large degree, in conclusion it stems from a desire/need to preserve ones self and the human species. The things that do less harm and brings more happiness are considered the most ethical and moral

No need for religion to tell people what is and isn't moral. in fact, religion makes people do morally questionable acts, such as killing people for various reasons... I recently found out that in Islam, IF that dude who is burning the Qur'ans was in a muslim country, the rule in islam is for him to be KILLED, as stated by the Qur'an/Prophet, same goes for people who talk bad about the prophet and God - death

so no, I don't think atheists are immoral, quite the opposite in fact in my opinion