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Forums - General Discussion - Culture and Islam; coinciding with current events

As an American Muslim, I can truly say that most issues that relates to Islam from a western perspective are from culture-differences. 

Growing up in America  for the most part was simple and easy. I was born in one of the best countries in the world, and I believe that everyone must experience the freedoms provided by the US. That everyone in the world has the right to be free and happy.  But this naive view of the world as being without conflict evaporated after Sept. 11, 2001.  My world changed. 

Back then, I was very open about pretty much everything. I would answer everyone's questions as truthfully and modestly as possible. I never held back any of my past. But that changed. When I was asked the common question of where my parents were from, I replied with the same usual answer, but it was then received much differently from what I expected. I would then be asked a following question in an almost fearful tone,"...so does that mean they're muslim?" I never realized this back then but those who replied with that question had some doubt that I shrugged off as mere stupidity . That couldn't of been further from the truth. They were afraid. 

My parents are foreign as so is my background. The logic that they use to base their common-sense is actually different from my own. I'm western. I live and think like someone from the US. I would be lying to you if I said that relations with my parents were smooth on various issues. After years of giving this much thought, the only answer I can come up with why my parents thought in the way they did and why would muslims from eastern countries be angered over the burning of their own book or ex cetera is culture 

Tell me, what makes us human? Is it our large brain, or is it because of our thumbs? Instead of thinking it from a physical perspective lets talk about from a more mental, philosophical perspective. What makes us Human in relation to each other? Why do the actions that I perform on a daily basis be considered normal, humane as opposed to someone else from a foreign country who may think differently? Does that make me less human then he or just different? 

Culture. Is the driving force behind our every day to day actions and thinking. Tell me when you woke up this morning getting yourself dressed, did you ever think about not wearing clothes to your next destination? Or did that even cross your mind? Exactly, culture defines our actions by being able to state what is right from wrong. And the deeper we get into what acts are considered more heinous than others you can clearly see that a few deeds are even considered unforgivable.

Many from the west have asked the question,"Why do eastern muslims answer to issues relating to their religion with vehemency anger?" To build upon my answer to that question, I would like to ask you one first. What's the worse act/deed that you can think of? For most in the west, the answer would most likely be the rape of an innocent underage boy/girl. Its such a terrible crime that my blood boils just thinking about it. However, for those in the east, this may not seem like the worst crime you can commit. 

With so many cultures throughout our beautiful world, its almost certain that there will be differences in ideologies and schools of thought. What one act may seem to one group may be seen differently to another and vice-versa. This isn't wrong. Its just a different view created by different factors and influences. Its this difference that confuses many and creates conflicts for some. 

My world hasn't been changed since then. I've just broaden the range of my attention and interest. I've realized that this issue won't go away anytime soon nor will a mere thread help to end it. But I feel as though I must speak my mind on this matter for I've read many responses from individuals from Islamic-related threads, and I didn't want to stay quiet about this either. Our culture has made us to many things. It has made some become fake-martyrs for their own cause. It has defined our decisions, actions, and even our love interests. But one thing that culture cannot do is hamper our ever curious minds. For as we further continue to seek knowledge, we'll never truly shut ourselves to a singular view upon our tiny world. A world that seems to get larger and more diverse with each passing day. 



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I really would like to hear some of the opinions of those here. Its one of those sensible forums that I really admire. 



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If we were made in god's image does he have a small intestine?



I couldn't figure out your stance on things, no strong opinions, but maybe that was the point. I liked that post and your humble attitude.



And to what extent do you believe that these cultural differences are linked to prosperity? I mean, the concept of the nation-state has been the backbone of global culture since the 17th century (the idea introduced in the Treaty of Westphalia in 16-something-or-other), and yet, in recent decades, this culture, this idea has been slowly - but surely - fading in the name of greater prosperities.

Other cultures are also fading in the Western World due to greater prosperity - look at the relative diminishing importance of the monarchies in Europe. And, on other levels, the changes in architecture. Equal rights, democracy, and personal freedoms also seem to become of far greater importance as wealth increases.

When I look at the Middle-East, I see that the views of the people are very similar to the views of Europe centuries ago. Borders are still issues worth going to war over, frequent and frivolous use of capital punishment, in-equal rights between ethnicities and genders, strong monarchies and/or dictatorships.

What the Middle-East really needs is a democratic revolution, and it is happening, though maybe only on a small scale for the moment - Iraq and Afghanistan are being pushed forward by the hands of the West, but we are starting to see grass-roots movement for democracy in countries like Iran - remember those protests last year? What Europe showed is that no matter how hard the Government may try, those protests will forever continue until democracy prevails. The Government can merely delay the revolution, it cannot deny it.

When democracy does finally stretch itself across the Middle-East, development will be rapid - secularism will happen over time, though it may not be immediate - and other Western cultural ideas will start to prop up alongside it - equal rights, reduction of capital punishment, etc.

By this point, the Middle-East will probably see capitalism slowly enter throughout - stronger property rights and contract laws - favoured by democratic Governments - will see small domestic businesses popping up and prospering, as well as huge levels of foreign investment.

At this point, I honestly believe that it will only be a couple of decades before the Middle East becomes a dustier version of Europe.

Basically, what I'm getting at is that the huge, gaping differences in culture are strongly linked to the huge, gaping differences in wealth.



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Well I pressume that in some cases it's hard to distinguish between cultural differences and religious diffrences. Plus in some societies religion and culture interwine, hence why people from such countries are so radical in their beliefs.



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What I absolutely adore about the OP's post is that it shows we still retain a common culture with common values. It is evidence that America really is a melting pot where we take the best from other countries and gives them the opportunity at a new life with the economic freedom to make a better one here.

As the literal type, I am not going to delve into some heavy existentialist stuff. I see Black, White, Latino, Asian, Christian, Native American, Muslim, Agnostic, and Atheists along with poor, middle and wealthy. We all have our differences based on our backgrounds, yet for some reason beyond me, I am astounded with as diverse a country as ours that we have not segmented ourselves and delved into civil war over our differences and social inequities.

There is always that glimmer of hope within us that no matter how bad our lives are now, there are opportunities to better ourselves in the future.

Personally, I have seen friends and family go from solidly middle class paying jobs to having no job at all for 2 plus years. There is constant worry, anger, frustration, unfulfilled expectations, yet I have yet to encounter utter despair amongst my friends and family. I have not heard, "There is no hope for me, I might as well be dead" to this point. What I have heard is "Well, I did not get the job, but something will come along."

This intrinsic hope that there is always something out there is in large part due to our history. We are not castigated because our grandparents were poor farmers. We have no caste system or rigid class structure with royalty and an aristocracy with all the titles attached and systems set in place to keep their great great great great great grandchildren wealthy without having to work an honest day in their life. Because of this, there is always hope that and seeing how far our ancestors have come from where they started.

I will not lie, I have had disagreements with my country's policies and still do to this day. I do not like all the Presidents from FDR to Obama promoting Free Trade and Globalization at the expense of the blue collar American worker, which reverberates into a loss of a living wage tax base for the public sector to live and operate off of. I do not like our interventionism in countries such as Iraq when we should have, 20 years ago, been heavily investing in Green technologies to extricate ourselves from the Middle East.

That being said, we do those things because every society from the beginning of mankind has been ruled in the background by those with the most wealth, hence the most power. Wealth greases the political system to an unhealthy degree where the desires of the few are placed over the desires of the many. As a realist, I do not deny this, but that does not mean I like it or have to like it.

Anyways, off on too many tangents there.

Thank you hasanwhy for giving this opportunity.



hasanwhy said:

 

 

Many from the west have asked the question,"Why do eastern muslims answer to issues relating to their religion with vehemency anger?"

Not at all, I am sure that many understand that muslims react like that in Afghanistan, etc;.

but not when they are born in USA or Europe.

Multicultarism was once a dream coming true but thx to the growing extreme muslims especially in Western Europe, Multicultarism is more and more transferring to an multicriminalism society where you better don't say something about it in the open or you have a problem..

Your OP is very nice but you address it to the wrong people, you should say this stuff to the extreme muslim group.



 

hasanwhy said:

With so many cultures throughout our beautiful world, its almost certain that there will be differences in ideologies and schools of thought. What one act may seem to one group may be seen differently to another and vice-versa. This isn't wrong.


Yes it is.

There are places in the world, where forced sex with 12 year old boys is common. It's part of there culture. That doesn't make it right. It's wrong. I like that you think the world is generally good but just different, but it's just not true.

Most of the countries in the world, are ruled by men and not law. Those countries are not a good in the world.

As for being a Muslim growing up the the US, great. I am glad you're here. The issue I have with Muslims in general, is that being Muslim does not mean the same thing to everyone.

There are many kinds of Muslims. Most are good, but some are bad. What would be great, is if we had two words to distinguish the people who follow Islam that are good (like you), and a word that means the rest of the religion.

In Christianity, we have that breakdown. When people think of religious leaders molesting boys, they don't think of Christians. They think of Catholics. When they think of cult like religions that follow the new testament, we don't think of Christians, we think of Mormons.

I know that if your in Iran, there are names for the different Muslim groups. Those names never make it to America. All we hear, is Muslim. I wish that would change, so when I talk about a group of people who need to be talked about, people don't think I mean you.



Killiana1a said:

What I absolutely adore about the OP's post is that it shows we still retain a common culture with common values. It is evidence that America really is a melting pot where we take the best from other countries and gives them the opportunity at a new life with the economic freedom to make a better one here.

As the literal type, I am not going to delve into some heavy existentialist stuff. I see Black, White, Latino, Asian, Christian, Native American, Muslim, Agnostic, and Atheists along with poor, middle and wealthy. We all have our differences based on our backgrounds, yet for some reason beyond me, I am astounded with as diverse a country as ours that we have not segmented ourselves and delved into civil war over our differences and social inequities.

There is always that glimmer of hope within us that no matter how bad our lives are now, there are opportunities to better ourselves in the future.

Personally, I have seen friends and family go from solidly middle class paying jobs to having no job at all for 2 plus years. There is constant worry, anger, frustration, unfulfilled expectations, yet I have yet to encounter utter despair amongst my friends and family. I have not heard, "There is no hope for me, I might as well be dead" to this point. What I have heard is "Well, I did not get the job, but something will come along."

This intrinsic hope that there is always something out there is in large part due to our history. We are not castigated because our grandparents were poor farmers. We have no caste system or rigid class structure with royalty and an aristocracy with all the titles attached and systems set in place to keep their great great great great great grandchildren wealthy without having to work an honest day in their life. Because of this, there is always hope that and seeing how far our ancestors have come from where they started.

I will not lie, I have had disagreements with my country's policies and still do to this day. I do not like all the Presidents from FDR to Obama promoting Free Trade and Globalization at the expense of the blue collar American worker, which reverberates into a loss of a living wage tax base for the public sector to live and operate off of. I do not like our interventionism in countries such as Iraq when we should have, 20 years ago, been heavily investing in Green technologies to extricate ourselves from the Middle East.

That being said, we do those things because every society from the beginning of mankind has been ruled in the background by those with the most wealth, hence the most power. Wealth greases the political system to an unhealthy degree where the desires of the few are placed over the desires of the many. As a realist, I do not deny this, but that does not mean I like it or have to like it.

Anyways, off on too many tangents there.

Thank you hasanwhy for giving this opportunity.

And thank you for the kind words :) 

I'm glad that you liked my OP, Killiana1a. 



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