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Forums - Sony - New PS Move Ad Trash Talks The Wii

jarrod on 14 September 2010
Carl2291 said:
jarrod said:
Carl2291 said:

Firstly, why are Wii fans upset over this advert? Because he tells the truth and says you don't have to just flick your wrist?

Secondly, will we see these same people complaining about Nintendo the next time they try mock 3D Glasses? I have them all marked down so I will bring them back up

Thirdly, Sony fans were never mocking Nintendo because the controller itself. They were mocking the shitty games that the controller spawned. Games where you have to move your remote left and right at a stupid speed to try and swim. Games with VERY low production values just pushed out to make a quick profit off a userbase that allows itself to be milked.

A lot of Wii owners themselves are now starting to complain about the games releasing on Wii. The difference is... PS3 (And even 360) fans noticed this years ago. Not just in the past year.

Sony are now doing motion controls the way they SHOULD be done. Accurately. Nintendo fans don't like this because deep down, they know that this is what they want Nintendo  and 3rd parties to do with Wii. It's called jealousy. Who cares if the Wii sells more? Or Wii games will sell more? Just because it sells more doesn't mean it's a better quality experience. Is Carnival Games a better videogame than Monster Hunter Tri?

lol.  More money was likely poured into what eventually became "Wii Sports" than most budget busting HD games.  Social phenomenons don't just develop themselves overnight, and Nintendo actually spends more total on gaming R&D than any other console manufacturer.  Say what you want about the sad state of 3rd party wares, but Nintendo's own motion based Wii games are extremely high quality, extremely responsive and (with Motion Plus) extremely precise and accurate.  And have been for years now, the market itself reflects that.  Looking at Sony's own Move software slate, their "plan" is to shamelessly crib most of them too, just without calling them Move Sports, Move Play, Move Party, Move Crossbow Training, etc.  I guess that gives them something over Microsoft at least, Kinect's even more blatantly cloning in it's software, though not it's implementation.

Also, Nintendo has a right to mock 3D glasses.  They tried them back in 1995, and it failed spectacularly. ;)

Should I link you to the countless threads and comments about how 3rd parties hate Wii. Wii owners don't get treat as well as HD owners. 3rd parties don't get Wii. Etc... ?

And Nintendo shamelessly copied Eye Toy Play. And Eye Toy Kinetic too. Don't see you complaining about those 2 games thoguh do we? They even copied the name for the first one... Nintendo are such copies and can't think of anything themselves D: Oh no! " ;) "

Sony have a right to mock motion control games. They tried them back in  2003. It didn't fail spectacularly " ;) "

Who's talking about 3rd parties, that was my point?  I'm talking about Nintendo and Sony (and Microsoft I guess).  The best 3rd party motion effort for  Wii was a repurposed RE4... which again, actually isn't too different from what we see with Move and it's repurposed RE5 probably also being the best 3rd party game upfront.  

Also, I take it you haven't actually played both Wii Play and EyeToy play?  They're actually pretty different, the main thing they seem to share in common is having "Play" in the title (and for Wii Play that's only in the western release actually, in Japan it translate to "My First Wii" or something along those lines).  Wii Play actually copies (or rather remakes, but copies works too for the game design) a variety of other older games like Duck Hunt and Tank, if you want to start getting into the actual games.   Wii Fit also isn't really anything like EyeToy Kinetic (beyond both being vaguely "fitness games"), none of these games are near as straight or blatant a line as going from Wii Sports/Resort to Sports Champions is.

Sony certainly has a right to mock motion control, and they did, mercilessly.  That's what makes the utter hypocrisy of their current about face so richly evident.  Desperate times call for desperate measures I guess...



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Carl on 14 September 2010
milkyjoe said:
Carl2291 said:

Sony are now doing motion controls the way they SHOULD be done. Accurately. Nintendo fans don't like this because deep down, they know that this is what they want Nintendo  and 3rd parties to do with Wii. It's called jealousy. Who cares if the Wii sells more? Or Wii games will sell more? Just because it sells more doesn't mean it's a better quality experience. Is Carnival Games a better videogame than Monster Hunter Tri?

You're so right brother. It's like the ridiculous notion that Lady Gaga is awesome because she sells so many records. But you'd obviously never put forward an argument like that. Ever.

*high fives*

Wait... http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3574232

Oh man, you've totally let me down. Now I'm sad. :(

Where are the double standards, and where did I say she sold so well because she is the best? I said she was popular... That's about it. Doesn't mean she's the best.

Same with the Wii. Carnival Games is hugely popular... Does it mean it's better than Monster Hunter Tri?

Is Wii Play a better game than New Super Mario Bros. Wii?



                            

jarrod on 14 September 2010

Monster Hunter Tri outsold basically all Capcom's HD games except RE5, DMC4 and SF4 (and all combined only, bar RE5), and it's vastly outperformed it's PS2 predecessors (by like 3:1 over MH2, 4:1 over MH1) so that game's sales aren't exactly a mark against it.  Besides, it's use of motion control is pretty well mitigated (only some pointer menu selection is mandatory) and it's even (optionally) bundled with a CCPro in all markets, I'm not really sure why it's even really being brought up in the thread on motion control?  Why not compare a game that actually uses motion control intrinsically (like Zack & Wiki) for comparison?



Carl on 14 September 2010
jarrod said:
Carl2291 said:
jarrod said:
Carl2291 said:

Firstly, why are Wii fans upset over this advert? Because he tells the truth and says you don't have to just flick your wrist?

Secondly, will we see these same people complaining about Nintendo the next time they try mock 3D Glasses? I have them all marked down so I will bring them back up

Thirdly, Sony fans were never mocking Nintendo because the controller itself. They were mocking the shitty games that the controller spawned. Games where you have to move your remote left and right at a stupid speed to try and swim. Games with VERY low production values just pushed out to make a quick profit off a userbase that allows itself to be milked.

A lot of Wii owners themselves are now starting to complain about the games releasing on Wii. The difference is... PS3 (And even 360) fans noticed this years ago. Not just in the past year.

Sony are now doing motion controls the way they SHOULD be done. Accurately. Nintendo fans don't like this because deep down, they know that this is what they want Nintendo  and 3rd parties to do with Wii. It's called jealousy. Who cares if the Wii sells more? Or Wii games will sell more? Just because it sells more doesn't mean it's a better quality experience. Is Carnival Games a better videogame than Monster Hunter Tri?

lol.  More money was likely poured into what eventually became "Wii Sports" than most budget busting HD games.  Social phenomenons don't just develop themselves overnight, and Nintendo actually spends more total on gaming R&D than any other console manufacturer.  Say what you want about the sad state of 3rd party wares, but Nintendo's own motion based Wii games are extremely high quality, extremely responsive and (with Motion Plus) extremely precise and accurate.  And have been for years now, the market itself reflects that.  Looking at Sony's own Move software slate, their "plan" is to shamelessly crib most of them too, just without calling them Move Sports, Move Play, Move Party, Move Crossbow Training, etc.  I guess that gives them something over Microsoft at least, Kinect's even more blatantly cloning in it's software, though not it's implementation.

Also, Nintendo has a right to mock 3D glasses.  They tried them back in 1995, and it failed spectacularly. ;)

Should I link you to the countless threads and comments about how 3rd parties hate Wii. Wii owners don't get treat as well as HD owners. 3rd parties don't get Wii. Etc... ?

And Nintendo shamelessly copied Eye Toy Play. And Eye Toy Kinetic too. Don't see you complaining about those 2 games thoguh do we? They even copied the name for the first one... Nintendo are such copies and can't think of anything themselves D: Oh no! " ;) "

Sony have a right to mock motion control games. They tried them back in  2003. It didn't fail spectacularly " ;) "

Who's talking about 3rd parties, that was my point?  I'm talking about Nintendo and Sony (and Microsoft I guess).  The best 3rd party motion effort for  Wii was a repurposed RE4... which again, actually isn't too different from what we see with Move and it's repurposed RE5 probably also being the best 3rd party game upfront.

Also, I take it you haven't actually played both Wii Play and EyeToy play?  They're actually pretty different, the main thing they seem to share in common is having "Play" in the title (and for Wii Play that's only in the western release actually, in Japan it translate to "My First Wii" or something along those lines).  Wii Play actually copies (or rather remakes, but copies works too for the game design) a variety of other older games like Duck Hunt and Tank, if you want to start getting into the actual games.   Wii Fit also isn't really anything like EyeToy Kinetic (beyond both being vaguely "fitness games"), none of these games are near as straight or blatant a line as going from Wii Sports/Resort to Sports Champions is.

Sony certainly has a right to mock motion control, and they did, mercilessly.  That's what makes the utter hypocrisy of their current about face so richly evident.  Desperate times call for desperate measures I guess...

Seeing as I mentioned 3rd parties, and YOU quoted ME... What's your point? If you don't want to talk about 3rd parties don't reply to me when I clearly talk about 3rd parties in the post you replied to. It's not just Nintendo who make games for the Wii.

I've played both, I was just showing how pathetic the whole "OMGZ D: Sony teh copies!" bullshit is. It can be easily turned on Nintendo fans, who so love to bring it up at every opportunity. As for the jump from Wii Sports/Resort to Sports Champions. When something works so well and shows off your product so well... Why bother using somethign else when you can simply improve on that idea? Do we complain at car manufacturers for copying (and then improving on) things from other cars?

Desperate times? What desperate times? PS3 has been on a constant rise, sales wise every year since release and is now profiting for Sony. They have great 1st party AND 3rd party support and look to have even better support in the coming Months/ Years. Which is more than I can say for a certain other console... Maybe Sony aren't the ones who you should be pinning the "desperate" tag onto right now.



                            

buzzard on 14 September 2010

Sony It Only Copies Everything

Motion Control
Avatars
XboxLive
FamilyGames
Thumbstick
Rumble



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Carl on 14 September 2010
jarrod said:

Monster Hunter Tri outsold basically all Capcom's HD games except RE5, DMC4 and SF4 (and all combined only, bar RE5), and it's vastly outperformed it's PS2 predecessors (by like 3:1 over MH2, 4:1 over MH1) so that game's sales aren't exactly a mark against it.  Besides, it's use of motion control is pretty well mitigated (only some pointer menu selection is mandatory) and it's even (optionally) bundled with a CCPro in all markets, I'm not really sure why it's even really being brought up in the thread on motion control?  Why not compare a game that actually uses motion control intrinsically (like Zack & Wiki) for comparison?

Or Resident Evil 4 Wii Edition, Umbrella Chronicles, Darkside Chronicles?

Or Metroid Prime 3, Metroid Prime Trilogy, Metroid: Other M even?

Call of Duty 3, World at War, 4?

 Red Steel, Red Steel 2?

The Conduit?

Punch-Out!!?

Mad World?

Zack and Wiki if you so want to go there too.



                            

jarrod on 14 September 2010
Carl2291 said:
jarrod said:
Carl2291 said:
jarrod said:
Carl2291 said:

Firstly, why are Wii fans upset over this advert? Because he tells the truth and says you don't have to just flick your wrist?

Secondly, will we see these same people complaining about Nintendo the next time they try mock 3D Glasses? I have them all marked down so I will bring them back up

Thirdly, Sony fans were never mocking Nintendo because the controller itself. They were mocking the shitty games that the controller spawned. Games where you have to move your remote left and right at a stupid speed to try and swim. Games with VERY low production values just pushed out to make a quick profit off a userbase that allows itself to be milked.

A lot of Wii owners themselves are now starting to complain about the games releasing on Wii. The difference is... PS3 (And even 360) fans noticed this years ago. Not just in the past year.

Sony are now doing motion controls the way they SHOULD be done. Accurately. Nintendo fans don't like this because deep down, they know that this is what they want Nintendo  and 3rd parties to do with Wii. It's called jealousy. Who cares if the Wii sells more? Or Wii games will sell more? Just because it sells more doesn't mean it's a better quality experience. Is Carnival Games a better videogame than Monster Hunter Tri?

lol.  More money was likely poured into what eventually became "Wii Sports" than most budget busting HD games.  Social phenomenons don't just develop themselves overnight, and Nintendo actually spends more total on gaming R&D than any other console manufacturer.  Say what you want about the sad state of 3rd party wares, but Nintendo's own motion based Wii games are extremely high quality, extremely responsive and (with Motion Plus) extremely precise and accurate.  And have been for years now, the market itself reflects that.  Looking at Sony's own Move software slate, their "plan" is to shamelessly crib most of them too, just without calling them Move Sports, Move Play, Move Party, Move Crossbow Training, etc.  I guess that gives them something over Microsoft at least, Kinect's even more blatantly cloning in it's software, though not it's implementation.

Also, Nintendo has a right to mock 3D glasses.  They tried them back in 1995, and it failed spectacularly. ;)

Should I link you to the countless threads and comments about how 3rd parties hate Wii. Wii owners don't get treat as well as HD owners. 3rd parties don't get Wii. Etc... ?

And Nintendo shamelessly copied Eye Toy Play. And Eye Toy Kinetic too. Don't see you complaining about those 2 games thoguh do we? They even copied the name for the first one... Nintendo are such copies and can't think of anything themselves D: Oh no! " ;) "

Sony have a right to mock motion control games. They tried them back in  2003. It didn't fail spectacularly " ;) "

Who's talking about 3rd parties, that was my point?  I'm talking about Nintendo and Sony (and Microsoft I guess).  The best 3rd party motion effort for  Wii was a repurposed RE4... which again, actually isn't too different from what we see with Move and it's repurposed RE5 probably also being the best 3rd party game upfront.

Also, I take it you haven't actually played both Wii Play and EyeToy play?  They're actually pretty different, the main thing they seem to share in common is having "Play" in the title (and for Wii Play that's only in the western release actually, in Japan it translate to "My First Wii" or something along those lines).  Wii Play actually copies (or rather remakes, but copies works too for the game design) a variety of other older games like Duck Hunt and Tank, if you want to start getting into the actual games.   Wii Fit also isn't really anything like EyeToy Kinetic (beyond both being vaguely "fitness games"), none of these games are near as straight or blatant a line as going from Wii Sports/Resort to Sports Champions is.

Sony certainly has a right to mock motion control, and they did, mercilessly.  That's what makes the utter hypocrisy of their current about face so richly evident.  Desperate times call for desperate measures I guess...

Seeing as I mentioned 3rd parties, and YOU quoted ME... What's your point? If you don't want to talk about 3rd parties don't reply to me when I clearly talk about 3rd parties in the post you replied to. It's not just Nintendo who make games for the Wii.

I've played both, I was just showing how pathetic the whole "OMGZ D: Sony teh copies!" bullshit is. It can be easily turned on Nintendo fans, who so love to bring it up at every opportunity. As for the jump from Wii Sports/Resort to Sports Champions. When something works so well and shows off your product so well... Why bother using somethign else when you can simply improve on that idea? Do we complain at car manufacturers for copying (and then improving on) things from other cars?

Desperate times? What desperate times? PS3 has been on a constant rise, sales wise every year since release and is now profiting for Sony. They have great 1st party AND 3rd party support and look to have even better support in the coming Months/ Years. Which is more than I can say for a certain other console... Maybe Sony aren't the ones who you should be pinning the "desperate" tag onto right now.

Well, what's the point of bringing up 3rd parties even?  Do you think that was Sony's intention with the ad was  "hey look at all those shitty Wii games from Activision/EA/T2/Ubisoft/Namco/Sega/etc... now buy all these cool Move games from our friends at Activision/EA/T2/Ubisoft/Namco/Sega/etc"?   Is it the 3rd party games that define the Wii?  If not, how would one go from Sony's advertising to that?

And uh, it seems the copy argument can't be so easily "turned around" given you yourself are acknowledging Wii Play/Fit aren't really much like EyeToy Play/Kinetic, while Sports Champions is pretty blatant copy of Wii Sports/Resort.  I don't like delving into the copy argument either, nearly all creation takes from what came before it some level, but the hipocrasy of Sony on motion controls (both in rhetoric and implementation) and the complete 180 they've taken over the past year or so does kinda open that up and bring it to the forefront.

And wow, who knew being in 3rd place and billions in the hole could be so great.  No doubt Nintendo's looking to copy the PS3 business model asap, it totally makes sense. 



Carl on 14 September 2010
buzzard said:

Sony It Only Copies Everything

Motion Control
Avatars
XboxLive
FamilyGames
Thumbstick
Rumble

Motion Control they had with the Eye Toy

Avatars. I don't even think I need to talk about this. Surely you mean "Mii's"? And even then... Mii's are simply characters to give you a profile. User Profiles were around way before the Wii.

Xbox Live? You could game online on the SNES if I remember correctly. Nevermind the Xbox. And online gaming was around way before it was on SNES too.

Family Games? What?

Thumbstick? I can agree with that. Although they did improve on the original idea didn't they?

Rumble, again... I can agree with that.



                            

jarrod on 14 September 2010
Carl2291 said:
jarrod said:

Monster Hunter Tri outsold basically all Capcom's HD games except RE5, DMC4 and SF4 (and all combined only, bar RE5), and it's vastly outperformed it's PS2 predecessors (by like 3:1 over MH2, 4:1 over MH1) so that game's sales aren't exactly a mark against it.  Besides, it's use of motion control is pretty well mitigated (only some pointer menu selection is mandatory) and it's even (optionally) bundled with a CCPro in all markets, I'm not really sure why it's even really being brought up in the thread on motion control?  Why not compare a game that actually uses motion control intrinsically (like Zack & Wiki) for comparison?

Or Resident Evil 4 Wii Edition, Umbrella Chronicles, Darkside Chronicles?

Or Metroid Prime 3, Metroid Prime Trilogy, Metroid: Other M even?

Call of Duty 3, World at War, 4?

 Red Steel, Red Steel 2?

The Conduit?

Punch-Out!!?

Mad World?

Zack and Wiki if you so want to go there too.

Most of those games use pretty standard controls that are contextually adapted (like Madworld), or mainly just  pointer controls (essentially a lightgun, which all those railgunners and FPS/TPS use).  And Punch-Out is best played NES style even.  None are really all that close to a "waggle-fest" mini-game comp like Carnival Games.  Hell, in terms of actually interface, even something like Heavy Rain comes closer than probably everything up there besides maybe MadWorld, and that's despite Heavy Rain using dual analogs and button presses.

And actually, if Carnival Games were a PS3 game, it's be the 8th best selling 3rd party title funny enough.  And the 2nd best selling exclusive one.  Interesting.



Carl on 14 September 2010
jarrod said:
Carl2291 said:
jarrod said:
Carl2291 said:
jarrod said:
Carl2291 said:

Firstly, why are Wii fans upset over this advert? Because he tells the truth and says you don't have to just flick your wrist?

Secondly, will we see these same people complaining about Nintendo the next time they try mock 3D Glasses? I have them all marked down so I will bring them back up

Thirdly, Sony fans were never mocking Nintendo because the controller itself. They were mocking the shitty games that the controller spawned. Games where you have to move your remote left and right at a stupid speed to try and swim. Games with VERY low production values just pushed out to make a quick profit off a userbase that allows itself to be milked.

A lot of Wii owners themselves are now starting to complain about the games releasing on Wii. The difference is... PS3 (And even 360) fans noticed this years ago. Not just in the past year.

Sony are now doing motion controls the way they SHOULD be done. Accurately. Nintendo fans don't like this because deep down, they know that this is what they want Nintendo  and 3rd parties to do with Wii. It's called jealousy. Who cares if the Wii sells more? Or Wii games will sell more? Just because it sells more doesn't mean it's a better quality experience. Is Carnival Games a better videogame than Monster Hunter Tri?

lol.  More money was likely poured into what eventually became "Wii Sports" than most budget busting HD games.  Social phenomenons don't just develop themselves overnight, and Nintendo actually spends more total on gaming R&D than any other console manufacturer.  Say what you want about the sad state of 3rd party wares, but Nintendo's own motion based Wii games are extremely high quality, extremely responsive and (with Motion Plus) extremely precise and accurate.  And have been for years now, the market itself reflects that.  Looking at Sony's own Move software slate, their "plan" is to shamelessly crib most of them too, just without calling them Move Sports, Move Play, Move Party, Move Crossbow Training, etc.  I guess that gives them something over Microsoft at least, Kinect's even more blatantly cloning in it's software, though not it's implementation.

Also, Nintendo has a right to mock 3D glasses.  They tried them back in 1995, and it failed spectacularly. ;)

Should I link you to the countless threads and comments about how 3rd parties hate Wii. Wii owners don't get treat as well as HD owners. 3rd parties don't get Wii. Etc... ?

And Nintendo shamelessly copied Eye Toy Play. And Eye Toy Kinetic too. Don't see you complaining about those 2 games thoguh do we? They even copied the name for the first one... Nintendo are such copies and can't think of anything themselves D: Oh no! " ;) "

Sony have a right to mock motion control games. They tried them back in  2003. It didn't fail spectacularly " ;) "

Who's talking about 3rd parties, that was my point?  I'm talking about Nintendo and Sony (and Microsoft I guess).  The best 3rd party motion effort for  Wii was a repurposed RE4... which again, actually isn't too different from what we see with Move and it's repurposed RE5 probably also being the best 3rd party game upfront.

Also, I take it you haven't actually played both Wii Play and EyeToy play?  They're actually pretty different, the main thing they seem to share in common is having "Play" in the title (and for Wii Play that's only in the western release actually, in Japan it translate to "My First Wii" or something along those lines).  Wii Play actually copies (or rather remakes, but copies works too for the game design) a variety of other older games like Duck Hunt and Tank, if you want to start getting into the actual games.   Wii Fit also isn't really anything like EyeToy Kinetic (beyond both being vaguely "fitness games"), none of these games are near as straight or blatant a line as going from Wii Sports/Resort to Sports Champions is.

Sony certainly has a right to mock motion control, and they did, mercilessly.  That's what makes the utter hypocrisy of their current about face so richly evident.  Desperate times call for desperate measures I guess...

Seeing as I mentioned 3rd parties, and YOU quoted ME... What's your point? If you don't want to talk about 3rd parties don't reply to me when I clearly talk about 3rd parties in the post you replied to. It's not just Nintendo who make games for the Wii.

I've played both, I was just showing how pathetic the whole "OMGZ D: Sony teh copies!" bullshit is. It can be easily turned on Nintendo fans, who so love to bring it up at every opportunity. As for the jump from Wii Sports/Resort to Sports Champions. When something works so well and shows off your product so well... Why bother using somethign else when you can simply improve on that idea? Do we complain at car manufacturers for copying (and then improving on) things from other cars?

Desperate times? What desperate times? PS3 has been on a constant rise, sales wise every year since release and is now profiting for Sony. They have great 1st party AND 3rd party support and look to have even better support in the coming Months/ Years. Which is more than I can say for a certain other console... Maybe Sony aren't the ones who you should be pinning the "desperate" tag onto right now.

Well, what's the point of bringing up 3rd parties even?  Do you think that was Sony's intention with the ad was  "hey look at all those shitty Wii games from Activision/EA/T2/Ubisoft/Namco/Sega/etc... now buy all these cool Move games from our friends at Activision/EA/T2/Ubisoft/Namco/Sega/etc"?   Is it the 3rd party games that define the Wii?  If not, how would one go from Sony's advertising to that?

And uh, it seems the copy argument can't be so easily "turned around" given you yourself are acknowledging Wii Play/Fit aren't really much like EyeToy Play/Kinetic, while Sports Champions is pretty blatant copy of Wii Sports/Resort.  I don't like delving into the copy argument either, nearly all creation takes from what came before it some level, but the hipocrasy of Sony on motion controls (both in rhetoric and implementation) and the complete 180 they've taken over the past year or so does kinda open that up and bring it to the forefront.

And wow, who knew being in 3rd place and billions in the hole could be so great.  No doubt Nintendo's looking to copy the PS3 business model asap, it totally makes sense.

Because 3rd parties make games for Wii...? And the intention of the advert was to show that they have accurate motion control. Not stupid motion where you just need to flick your wrist. Is it such a crime to promote your superior product?

No. They might not be the exact same gameplay wise... It just shows they still copied the name for Wii Play and the fitness game idea from Eye Toy Kinetic. They pretty much did what Sony are doing. Copy the idea, but improve upon it in a bunch of ways. And who cares if they DID mock it? It's business! Every company does it. Even your precious Nintendo. It has nothing to do with this thread and it shouldn't be brought up in every PS Move thread. It should be bannable.

3rd place and billions in the hole... Yet Up YoY again, and has better 3rd party support than the iPhone. Wahey.