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Forums - General Discussion - Laws of Physics Vary Throughout the Universe

miz1q2w3e on 09 September 2010
Soleron said:
miz1q2w3e said:

earthshattering discoveries indeed happen everyday

i mean one would assume that the laws of physics would be universal, there's a conflict in my brain now >_<


All the 'laws' mean is that if we do an experiment today, and come back tomorrow and do it again, the results will be exactly the same.

If you think about it, there's no reason that has to be true. It's just that up until now (potentially) we've assumed that it is.

yeah but isn't everything in the universe made up of the same particles? == same laws...etc, where would the difference come from?

I guess that was the biggest assumption being made from the start, that everything was made from the same stuff... curiosity level up!



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Khuutra on 09 September 2010
Soleron said:

- It's one paper
- That hasn't been peer reviewed
- And this claim has been made several times before to no result

I'm sure this is serious research, but for something this big it needs A LOT of checking before you can even consider it. As in high school science classes, this could easily be systematic or random errors from instrument faults. It's not like we can travel to those galaxies and check.

So, Khuutra, calm down. If it's still true in 3 months then by all means freak out. It also means I'm in a job because I'm going to start a Physics degree soon (at Cambridge; maybe I'll meet those researchers) with the intention of going into research. New stuff we can't explain well is exciting.

I'm not actually freaking out; I find the idea fascinating. I was using text screams as a means of conveying hyperbole, since it calls into mind the idea of the laws of physics being fluid and changeable over time. It would mean that all being, all laws, all of everything, is potentially transient.



drkohler on 09 September 2010
Soleron said:

- It's one paper
- That hasn't been peer reviewed
- And this claim has been made several times before to no result

I'm sure this is serious research, but for something this big it needs A LOT of checking before you can even consider it. As in high school science classes, this could easily be systematic or random errors from instrument faults. It's not like we can travel to those galaxies and check.

alpha has been a pain in the *ss for the past 80 years or so. Nobody really knows what it actually is (only that it is NOT a constant, it is a number that depends on certain measurment conditions too complex to explain here). Whether the value varies over time (and now, according to the latest paper, also over space) has been debated ever since. What does this thread have to do with consoles? - Faint memories from nuclear physics classes tell me that combining all XBox360s and PS3s into a large supercomputer array, it would take months (years?) to calculate alpha to highest precision...



gurglesletch on 09 September 2010

No duh. It's a different galaxy. 




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Kasz216 on 09 September 2010
miz1q2w3e said:
Soleron said:
miz1q2w3e said:

earthshattering discoveries indeed happen everyday

i mean one would assume that the laws of physics would be universal, there's a conflict in my brain now >_<


All the 'laws' mean is that if we do an experiment today, and come back tomorrow and do it again, the results will be exactly the same.

If you think about it, there's no reason that has to be true. It's just that up until now (potentially) we've assumed that it is.

yeah but isn't everything in the universe made up of the same particles? == same laws...etc, where would the difference come from?

I guess that was the biggest assumption being made from the start, that everything was made from the same stuff... curiosity level up!

Actually, if I'm correct the most likely given explination at current would be that they are the same particles, but that different universes overlap with our own that we can't see or detect but effect our universe in many ways.

If correct it could "shrink" the cage so to speak... though expand the universe.  Not that'd matter since alpha would be either too small or two large to be of any use to us outside of the "sweet spot" we're in.



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Zkuq on 09 September 2010
famousringo said:

Sonofabitch. That so isn't fair to us poor, dumb humans trying to figure out how this universe works.

Of course, it could just be that they've missed  a source of error somewhere and it's throwing their results all over the place. They're just some poor, dumb humans, after all.

Or there's something "invisible" that affects things, like dark energy and dark matter. But I haven't read the article itself, only the OP, because I'm sure I won't fully understand it. Yet, that is. I just began my physics studies this fall because I want to understand things like this... And many others.



miz1q2w3e on 09 September 2010
Kasz216 said:
miz1q2w3e said:
Soleron said:
miz1q2w3e said:

earthshattering discoveries indeed happen everyday

i mean one would assume that the laws of physics would be universal, there's a conflict in my brain now >_<


All the 'laws' mean is that if we do an experiment today, and come back tomorrow and do it again, the results will be exactly the same.

If you think about it, there's no reason that has to be true. It's just that up until now (potentially) we've assumed that it is.

yeah but isn't everything in the universe made up of the same particles? == same laws...etc, where would the difference come from?

I guess that was the biggest assumption being made from the start, that everything was made from the same stuff... curiosity level up!

Actually, if I'm correct the most likely given explination at current would be that they are the same particles, but that different universes overlap with our own that we can't see or detect but effect our universe in many ways.

makes sense, like the nonuniform other universe matter distribution causes some effect that manifests itself as different values for different points in space

I won't even try to pretend that i fully understand exactly what alpha..etc is, i just think it's interesting i used to read about stuff like this



miz1q2w3e on 09 September 2010
Kasz216 said:

If correct it could "shrink" the cage so to speak... though expand the universe.  Not that'd matter since alpha would be either too small or two large to be of any use to us outside of the "sweet spot" we're in.

cage?



Kantor on 09 September 2010

Oh, come on!

Every time we get close to understanding the universe, something has to pop up! Gravity, Relativity, Quantum Mechanics, and now this!



(Former) Lead Moderator and (Eternal) VGC Detective

Kasz216 on 09 September 2010
miz1q2w3e said:
Kasz216 said:

If correct it could "shrink" the cage so to speak... though expand the universe.  Not that'd matter since alpha would be either too small or two large to be of any use to us outside of the "sweet spot" we're in.

cage?


Well if Physics is different in different parts of the universe, that likely means there are parts of the universe where atom's bonds don't hold... and just all kinds of other problems before you even get that far.