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Forums - General - Church plans to burn the Quran on Sept. 11

TheRealMafoo said:
Khuutra said:
TheRealMafoo said:
Chrizum said:
Why are you singling out muslims? In every religion (and atheïsts as well) there are a number of people who are insane and dangerous.

Find me a you tube video of any other group, who's people or leaders chant "Death to America". I can find you dozens of videos showing Muslims doing it.

Again, I am not saying all Muslims do it. I am saying all that do it, are Muslim.

I haven't got any videos on-hand, but I'm pretty sure the Westboro Baptist Church constantly calls on God to wipe America off the map - they really cranked it up around the time of Katrina.

Even if you can find one, it's not about "See, I found one, your wrong!"

It's like saying the Catholic church does not have a problem with molesting little boys, because 98% of the priests don't do it.

Or, the example that applies to this post, is like saying it's not a problem because other men molest little boys.

Saying the Catholic church has a problem with child molestation, is not saying ever priest is a child molester. I think people understand that. Why then, when I say the Muslim religion has a problem with something, people think I mean everyone in it?

Well, actually, Mafoo, it kind of is:  one counterexample DOES make you wrong, because you said, "all that do it are Muslim".  Now having been disproved there doesn't mean you're entirely wrong, but you WERE wrong there. 

On another note, it bugs me that you are calling this "clever", especially after seeing your explanation; it's not "clever" for an idiot to accidentally do something good.  It also seems a strange idea to me to do this fully knowing that there will be violent backlash (however unwarranted), against military recommendations, for no good reason other than to be defiant.  

P.S.  Do you know what Kasz was referring to about someone offering an alternative site "nearby"?  I'd like to see the info on that offer. 

Kasz216? 



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TheRealMafoo said:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704282504575471870674163414.html

I thought this was an interesting article. Turning religious freedom around, to see if all the people who support the building of that Mosque will defend this churches freedoms.

Clever move if you ask me.

I just saw a fresh interview with the pastor on Swedish TV. His reasoning for their motives was very sound.

But he also said they might not even do it, "maybe it's not necessarly to do the last step, if it turns out we already accomplished what we wanted". I dunno what I think about that. I think they or someone else should do it.



A few minutes on Google failed to turn up any specific locations the governor might have offered, except for this bit of speculation: 
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2010/08/22/2010-08-22_patersonplan_for_site_not_grounded_in_reality.html

Instead of two blocks away, it would be ... five blocks away.  Better?  And if we go much further than that, that would probably disrupt the purpose of building it in the first place, as it was planned for that community. 

Or was Kasz talking about a completely different offer? 



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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

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DukeOfLuxembourg said:

The Qur'an (Koran) and Hadith are unique among all the sacred writings in the entire world -- because they alone counsel its followers to make war on unbelievers and to behead them.(so much to the religion of peace) Any thoughtful reader will be forced to admit that evil literally "drips" from their pages.  One in every 55 verses in the Qur'an consists of this fake god Allah insisting that Muslims make war on unbelievers and to behead them.

The Crusades were a reaction to the Muslim crusades against the entire world.
In the 7th century, the Muslims took control of Jerusalem, and in the 11th century they began to hassle, kill, molest Christian pilgrims in the Jerusalem area. The Muslim Turks even attacked Rome and Belgrade in 1456 A.D.  The Crusades were also in response to the cries of help from the eastern Byzantine Empire, which was very worried about the military threat to it from the Seljuk Turks. So if the Christians did not respond, the Muslims would have conquered all of Europe and wiped out Christianity from the planet. The Muslim high point in Europe ended when they were turned back from Vienna on September 11, 1683 A.D.   (Did this have any significance to Osama bin Laden's sick mind?)

Every Christian who participated in the Crusades, did so, against the teachings of Jesus.
However, in retrospect, the Crusades probably allowed the western world a thousand years of freedom from the diabolical Islamic religion. The Crusaders stopped the expansion of the Islamic empire. This allowed Christianity to prosper in Europe which preserved the gospel for the rest of the world to receive.

 SPAIN UNDER THE MOORS
Neither was Spain under the Muslim Moors the jewel of Islamic tolerance that it is often purported to be. In 920 A.D. all the inhabitants of Muez were put to the sword. Cordova, Zarajoza and Merida were burned to the ground, with all adult males executed and all women and children enslaved. In AD 1066 all the Jews of Grenada were slaughtered. In AD 1126, all the Christians of Grenada were deported to Morocco.

CARNAGE IN CONSTANTINOPLE
Under Mehmet II the Turks conquered the great Byzantine capital, Constantinople. On 29 May, 1453 A.D., waves of Turkish soldiers swept into Constantinople, the greatest city in the world at that time, and put it to the sword. Priceless libraries and irreplaceable works of art were burned, the population slaughtered, even in the Hagia Sophia, the greatest Christian church in the world at that time.

For centuries the Turks demanded an annual “blood levy” of Christian boys. Parents were forced to hand over one out of every five Christian boys for service in the Sultan’s army as janissaries.

In 1860 over 12,000 Christians were slaughtered in Lebanon. In 1876 14,700 Bulgarians were murdered by the Turks. 200,000 Armenian Christians were slaughtered by the Turks in Bayazid in 1877. And in 1915 the Turks massacred over 1.5 million Armenian Christians. As recently as September 1922 the Turkish army destroyed the ancient city of Smyrna with its 300,000 Christian population.

Great post.

The Crusaders are the most underrated and slandered military heroes in our history. It's such a shame.

I can't wait for The First Templar, and to play Lionheart: The Kings' Crusade.



Slimebeast said:
TheRealMafoo said:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704282504575471870674163414.html
I thought this was an interesting article. Turning religious freedom around, to see if all the people who support the building of that Mosque will defend this churches freedoms.

Clever move if you ask me.

I just saw a fresh interview with the pastor on Swedish TV. His reasoning for their motives was very sound.

But he also said they might not even do it, "maybe it's not necessarly to do the last step, if it turns out we already accomplished what we wanted". I dunno what I think about that. I think they or someone else should do it.

This confused me for a minute:  how can a protest accomplish anything without actually doing the protest?  But then I realized that if the purpose is to make a stink, that mission has been accomplished in advance by the media.  So the purpose has probably been more or less accomplished already in America ... the actual burning would just be a bookend.  Contrariwise, if they DIDN'T actually burn the books, it would take a lot of wind out of the sails of the angry mobs out in Crazystan. 



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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
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Every Christian who participated in the Crusades, did so, against the teachings of Jesus.
However, in retrospect, the Crusades probably allowed the western world a thousand years of freedom from the diabolical Islamic religion. The Crusaders stopped the expansion of the Islamic empire. This allowed Christianity to prosper in Europe which preserved the gospel for the rest of the world to receive.

By "recieve" do you mean "convert by the sword/gun"? 'Cause the Christian religion was every bit as "diabolical" as Islam in that regard.



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sapphi_snake said:
Kasz216 said:

No.  It wouldn't... and not it wouldn't.

You're just... wrong.  It just can't be expressed how wrong you are.

Once again, you show a complete disgracelful lack of knowledge about PTSD as well... to the point of where it's just... insulting now.  Compairing PTSD to homophobia... seriously, what the hell is wrong with you?  That's just so ignorant i don't kno where to begin.

A "sliding scale" arguement?  Really?   Sounds like the kind of arguement some people you'd disagree with who are on the more extreme stupid side would agree with.  Like this church.  They'd just make the arguement the other way.

I actually thought at some point you were going to try and articulate a real argument since you've seen to show displeasure and making imature and insulting arguments in the past but... screw it.  I'm done.

Whatever argument you gave was much too filled with emotions to stand. If those people really have PTSD (not that it would matter, as they're not that many from what you said), then they won't want to see a mosque anywhere, hence it shouldn't matter if they build it on ground 0 or not. What's next? Their PTSD doesn't matter. It's their problem. I never seem to hear veternas protesting war movies/video games 'cause of their PTSD.

14% of NY and 5% of the country doesn't count as  a "lot of people" to you?


Veterans don't HAVE to protest that kind of stuff because nobody is inconsiderate enough to put that kind of stuff next to VA hospitals and clubs.

Regardless, your arguements have been full of two much ignorance to further debate with you.   You mentioned homophobia... but in general your arguements about PTSD have had about the same intellectual knowledge as people who argue homosexuality is a choice.

 



Kenology said:

The mosque in my opinion is absolutely fine.  There are plenty of other places of worship around the ground zero.  Also, the area around ground zero is home to several liqour stores and strip clubs - not exactly 'sacred ground' people try to make it out to be.

It's nothing wrong with a mosque being there.

Burning a koran though... let's just say if the muslims burned a bible people would be ready to get violent. 

You have to be kidding.



Kasz216 said:

14% of NY and 5% of the country doesn't count as  a "lot of people" to you?


Veterans don't HAVE to protest that kind of stuff because nobody is inconsiderate enough to put that kind of stuff next to VA hospitals and clubs.

Regardless, your arguements have been full of two much ignorance to further debate with you.   You mentioned homophobia... but in general your arguements about PTSD have had about the same intellectual knowledge as people who argue homosexuality is a choice.

 

Not enough to matter.

But whatever... I know very well what PTSD is, I just don't find it a relevant or compelling argument for your stance.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

Final-Fan said:
Slimebeast said:
TheRealMafoo said:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704282504575471870674163414.html
I thought this was an interesting article. Turning religious freedom around, to see if all the people who support the building of that Mosque will defend this churches freedoms.

Clever move if you ask me.

I just saw a fresh interview with the pastor on Swedish TV. His reasoning for their motives was very sound.

But he also said they might not even do it, "maybe it's not necessarly to do the last step, if it turns out we already accomplished what we wanted". I dunno what I think about that. I think they or someone else should do it.

This confused me for a minute:  how can a protest accomplish anything without actually doing the protest?  But then I realized that if the purpose is to make a stink, that mission has been accomplished in advance by the media.  So the purpose has probably been more or less accomplished already in America ... the actual burning would just be a bookend.  Contrariwise, if they DIDN'T actually burn the books, it would take a lot of wind out of the sails of the angry mobs out in Crazystan. 

What does "make a stink" mean?

Partly it's already mission accomplished because they showed how easily and hysterically radical muslims are provoked. But only partly.