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Forums - Sales - Why does Sony fail at making another mega franchise?

RolStoppable said:
evolution_1ne said:

question Rol, do you think Wii fit, wii sports, and nintendogs, are better quality games than uncharted, little big planet, and infamous?

That's hard, if not impossible to say because those are six games in six different genres.


Rol, your being too nice. If you won't say it...I will. Hell yeah those are better quality games. Those games define this generation. Hate em or love em, it is what it is.



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If the Wii sells less than 20 million in 2009 (as defined by VGC sales between week ending 3d Jan 2009 to week ending 4th Jan 2010) Slimebeast wins and get to control Arius Dion's sig for 1 month.

If the Wii sells more than 20 million in 2009 (as defined above) Arius Dion wins and gets to control Slimebeast's sig for 1 month.

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CGI-Quality said:
MrT-Tar said:
CGI-Quality said:
MrT-Tar said:
CGI-Quality said:
MrT-Tar said:
Michael-5 said:

P.S. for Sony established mega franchises, Final Fantasy was exclusive to Sony during the PS1 and PS2 era, MGS still kind of is, Gran Turismo is also a big Sony branded game, and until GTA IV came out, GTA was largly associated with Sony. God of War is pretty epic still, and so are Kingdom Hearts and Dragon Quest. Resident Evil was mega on the PS1.


I'm thinking he is, seeing as it's a bigger franchise in Japan than Final Fantasy.

I think you misunderstood me, I know how popular DQ is, I'm a huge fan of the series.  I'm just surprised how it can be considered 'Sony established' considering the series was already massively popular before DQVII.  Only here in Europe where VIII was our first DQ game is it close to being 'Sony Established' 

He means how it got big. The PlayStation was the kicker is what he's saying, as it was for many franchises.

DQVIII is currently the highest selling DQ game (though perhaps not for long) and it was exclusive to a Sony platform, I don't deny that.

The highest selling final fantasy game in both Japan and the US pre-playstation was FF VI.  FF saw a considerable jump in sales when it went to Sony.  Enough to IMO be considered 'Sony Established'

GameAmericasJapan
Final Fantasy VI (SNES)
Square
0.87 2.55
Final Fantasy VII (PS)
Sony Computer Entertainment
3.09 3.93  

 

Dragon Quest on the other hand did not see it to anywhere near the same degree.  The best selling DQ game in Japan pre-PS was III.

Game
Japan
Dragon Warrior III (NES)
Enix
  3.77
Dragon Warrior VII (PS)
Enix
  4.12  

 

In the US, the best selling pre-PS DQ game was the original and post-PS was VIII

 

GameAmericas
Dragon Warrior (NES)
Nintendo
0.50
Dragon Quest VIII: Journey of the Cursed King (PS2)
Square Enix
0.62

I hope this explains why I don't think why DQ can be called 'Sony Established'

Fair enough, his wording needs attention, but I still see his point.

LOL at this!

I should have mentioned why I included Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy. When I say Sony established mega franchises, I meant that duing the PS1 and PS2 era Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest games were exclusive to the Playstation, and if you wanted to play these "mega" franchises, you had to own a Sony console. Pre-Playstation, they were Nintendo mega franchises, as Sega did not see these titles on their consoles. Sony itself did not make these franchises mega, just had exclusiveness to them.

For this generation, almost all of these mega-franchise exclusives either went multiplatform, or exclusive on another platform entirely (DQ IX, and X are Nintendo exclusive now)



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Michael-5 said:

On the PS3, Metal Gear Solid, and God of War are borderline mega-franchises. On the PS2 and PS1 MGS sold over 5.5 million copies, thats a lot, just a touch below Gears of War, which is definatly a mega franchise. After actually looking up God of War sales, I'll take back them being a mega franchise, 3.73 for God of War 1 is not enough to be mega in my opinion.

It definatly is not the lack of innovation, but a lot of the bigger PS3 eclusives don't really seem to offer much. I mean what does Killzone do that Halo or Call of Duty don't do better? What make the Chimera more interesting over the Covanent or Locust? Killzone, and Resistance are interesting games, but offer no real solid reason to switch from a bigger franchise.

Uncharted 2 is exempt from this, but it's sales are moderatly strong, especially considering since Uncharted 1 wasn't that special (BTW, I own and beat it).

I'll tell you, one of the big reasons I still play Halo 3 is to see a Grunts head explode with colouful paper, and hear Horray!

However, I'll agree with you about sony not focusing on any key franchises, thats why none of their big games (except Gran Turismo) ever see huge marketing.

I could say that I agree especially with Uncharted1 wasn't really special XD

And about FPSs you mentioned , I can't really answer because I've never played any fps game before.



Michael-5 said:
VXIII said:

I agree with RolStoppable. In the past Sony has really made some genre defining, or redefining games, but this generation not so much.

VXIII I agree with you on God of War, that game redefined the genre, but not mainly with it's gameplay, with it terific plot, gory battles (I mean ripping a head off!?!), and topless sex depicting cut scenes. Then again, this is one of PS3's best selling games, already selling 3 million units. Thats more then any Action game I know.

Metal Gear Solid is also genre defining, but thats the best selling PS3 exclusive, and has been among the best selling exclusives on a Sony console since the franchise started.

Twisted Metal also used to be big on the PS1 era, I'm a big fan of the franchise, but Sony butchered the series when they released "Small Brawl", and as a PS2 game, Twisted Metal Black didn't offer much (outside of the amazing cinematics). The PS3 version looks very cheap as well, why does an entire building fall when you shoot the corner? The physics and gameplay engine are simply too dated, and Sony hasn't really put enough $$$ into Twisted Metal since the PS1 titles.

As for ICO, Shadow of the Colosus, and Heavy Rain those are fairly niche games. Why didn't Mass Effect, Lost Odyssey, Alan Wake or better yet Baten Kaitos sell well? Amazing games, just poorly marketed, and they appeal to a smaller audience.

MAG was a concept, it was a game designed to show people that you can have smooth 256 player multiplayer on the PS3. What does that prove? More oponents doesn't mean better multiplayer, Gears of War 1 got away with 4 vs 4, and Halo 3 was limited to 32 players (I haven't played in a while, is this right?)? MAG didn't redefine anything. lmao.... name one game that can be compared to MAG in ANYWAY..... look up the definition of redefine and get back to me,   

Modern Warfare really defined realistic shooters, and by realistic I mean your not fighting Aliens, or a planet that doesn't exist. By real I mean your fighting using guns which simulate real guns, in environments which simulate real places, and battles which simulate potential wars (it's a game some fiction must be used). Modern Warfare 2 took off because many gamers missed Modern Warfare 1, or simply wanted more.

Basically, you can't blaime just marketing, there are other factors involved. Killzone is an awesome game, and it pushed the bar graphically on what the PS3 can do, but it doesn't look that much better then Gears of War 2, and the Plot is not that different from older FPS games, it's not that different from Halo. Gears of War was the first amazing third person shooter. Yes there was Kill Switch beforehand, but that was a glitchy game with a mediocre story. Halo was epic in 2001, and in 2004 it defined online console gaming.

As for LittleBigPlanet, yes it came out before New Super Mario Bros Wii, but Super Mario Bros is a 20 year old franchise, that defined platforming, and a new game after what about 20 years? THATS EPIC! I know people who don't play games who wanted a Wii for this thing because of nostalgia.

Sony makes some great games on the PS3, there is no doubt about that. However, I already forgot the Plot to Resistance 1, yet I still remember what happened in Halo 1, and going back further I still remember all the environments and level layouts to Donkey Kong Country. I cannot say that about Sonic, which was also a great game.

You think that both GoW and MGS are genre defining but as you can see they're not mega franchises like Halo or Gears , it's more like you disagree with him XD .

we can't just blame lack of innovation in Sony games ( which is not true, and you seem to agree with me about some games) as he suggests either .

I think Sony is happy with it , they seem that they don't want to focus on single franchise to make it mainstream therefore they don't launch huge marketing campaigns, building a mega library is all that matters,  but I don't know for sure just like everybody else in this thread.

On the PS3, Metal Gear Solid, and God of War are borderline mega-franchises. On the PS2 and PS1 MGS sold over 5.5 million copies, thats a lot, just a touch below Gears of War, which is definatly a mega franchise. After actually looking up God of War sales, I'll take back them being a mega franchise, 3.73 for God of War 1 is not enough to be mega in my opinion.

It definatly is not the lack of innovation, but a lot of the bigger PS3 eclusives don't really seem to offer much. I mean what does Killzone do that Halo or Call of Duty don't do better? appeal to casual gamers...

 

What make the Chimera more interesting over the Covanent or Locust? Killzone, and Resistance are interesting games, but offer no real solid reason to switch from a bigger franchise.

Uncharted 2 is exempt from this, but it's sales are moderatly strong, especially considering since Uncharted 1 wasn't that special (BTW, I own and beat it).

I'll tell you, one of the big reasons I still play Halo 3 is to see a Grunts head explode with colouful paper, and hear Horray!

However, I'll agree with you about sony not focusing on any key franchises, thats why none of their big games (except Gran Turismo) ever see huge marketing.

you guys really have to come to terms with hype and marketing, Killzone 2 had 1 televised commercial that released 1 day before the game was released, Halo had it's own fucking clothing, food, and toy line, with a launch party that rivaled the launch of the 360

and can everyone here please STFU about Gears which is NOT a M$ ip...... 



Jordahn said:
mhsillen said:
ultraslick said:

Sony has the best first party developers which create new ips all the time.

Why doesnt Microsoft do this? Because they buy their exclusives and have almost zero first party devs.

Why doesnt Nintendo do this? Because they have a legacy of Mario and Pokemon and Metroid which they rarely go away from for a new ip.

Halo is Halo, Gears is popular because outside of those 2 games there is really only Fable and Fortza, that IS microsofts first party.

Sony does infact get recognized for Mega franchises. Gran Turismo > Halo world wide

Metal Gear, Uncharted, Little Big Planet, Ratchet and Clank > Gears.

You ask why arent there more mega franchise games, I ask why isnt there more diversity in the competition?


Please:

Wii Fit

Nintendogs

Wii sports

All new IP's


Ummm...  Nintendo fanboy speaking here.  This might be out of context but as a hardcore gamer and Nintendo fanboy here, the titles you listed does almost nothing to enhance and strengthen the hardcore/core gaming experience.  But then again, I think I'm on context here.

Hardcore, please that is a word that defines nothing. Those are new IP's that are popular and sell boatloads.

Saying hardcore is code for stupid retarded gameplayers.  And using motion controls, they are most certainly game changers.

And you must realize hardcore as you put it are just a fraction of people who purchase games



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RolStoppable said:
evolution_1ne said:

question Rol, do you think Wii fit, wii sports, and nintendogs, are better quality games than uncharted, little big planet, and infamous?

That's hard, if not impossible to say because those are six games in six different genres.


lets make an exception and just call them games.....in YOUR opinion.



Michael-5 said:
VXIII said:

I agree with RolStoppable. In the past Sony has really made some genre defining, or redefining games, but this generation not so much.

VXIII I agree with you on God of War, that game redefined the genre, but not mainly with it's gameplay, with it terific plot, gory battles (I mean ripping a head off!?!), and topless sex depicting cut scenes. Then again, this is one of PS3's best selling games, already selling 3 million units. Thats more then any Action game I know.

Metal Gear Solid is also genre defining, but thats the best selling PS3 exclusive, and has been among the best selling exclusives on a Sony console since the franchise started.

Twisted Metal also used to be big on the PS1 era, I'm a big fan of the franchise, but Sony butchered the series when they released "Small Brawl", and as a PS2 game, Twisted Metal Black didn't offer much (outside of the amazing cinematics). The PS3 version looks very cheap as well, why does an entire building fall when you shoot the corner? The physics and gameplay engine are simply too dated, and Sony hasn't really put enough $$$ into Twisted Metal since the PS1 titles.

As for ICO, Shadow of the Colosus, and Heavy Rain those are fairly niche games. Why didn't Mass Effect, Lost Odyssey, Alan Wake or better yet Baten Kaitos sell well? Amazing games, just poorly marketed, and they appeal to a smaller audience.

MAG was a concept, it was a game designed to show people that you can have smooth 256 player multiplayer on the PS3. What does that prove? More oponents doesn't mean better multiplayer, Gears of War 1 got away with 4 vs 4, and Halo 3 was limited to 32 players (I haven't played in a while, is this right?)? MAG didn't redefine anything.

Modern Warfare really defined realistic shooters, and by realistic I mean your not fighting Aliens, or a planet that doesn't exist. By real I mean your fighting using guns which simulate real guns, in environments which simulate real places, and battles which simulate potential wars (it's a game some fiction must be used). Modern Warfare 2 took off because many gamers missed Modern Warfare 1, or simply wanted more.

Basically, you can't blaime just marketing, there are other factors involved. Killzone is an awesome game, and it pushed the bar graphically on what the PS3 can do, but it doesn't look that much better then Gears of War 2, and the Plot is not that different from older FPS games, it's not that different from Halo. Gears of War was the first amazing third person shooter. Yes there was Kill Switch beforehand, but that was a glitchy game with a mediocre story. Halo was epic in 2001, and in 2004 it defined online console gaming.

As for LittleBigPlanet, yes it came out before New Super Mario Bros Wii, but Super Mario Bros is a 20 year old franchise, that defined platforming, and a new game after what about 20 years? THATS EPIC! I know people who don't play games who wanted a Wii for this thing because of nostalgia.

Sony makes some great games on the PS3, there is no doubt about that. However, I already forgot the Plot to Resistance 1, yet I still remember what happened in Halo 1, and going back further I still remember all the environments and level layouts to Donkey Kong Country. I cannot say that about Sonic, which was also a great game.

You think that both GoW and MGS are genre defining but as you can see they're not mega franchises like Halo or Gears , it's more like you disagree with him XD .

we can't just blame lack of innovation in Sony games ( which is not true, and you seem to agree with me about some games) as he suggests either .

I think Sony is happy with it , they seem that they don't want to focus on single franchise to make it mainstream therefore they don't launch huge marketing campaigns, building a mega library is all that matters,  but I don't know for sure just like everybody else in this thread.

On the PS3, Metal Gear Solid, and God of War are borderline mega-franchises. On the PS2 and PS1 MGS sold over 5.5 million copies, thats a lot, just a touch below Gears of War, which is definatly a mega franchise. After actually looking up God of War sales, I'll take back them being a mega franchise, 3.73 for God of War 1 is not enough to be mega in my opinion.

It definatly is not the lack of innovation, but a lot of the bigger PS3 eclusives don't really seem to offer much. I mean what does Killzone do that Halo or Call of Duty don't do better? What make the Chimera more interesting over the Covanent or Locust? Killzone, and Resistance are interesting games, but offer no real solid reason to switch from a bigger franchise.

Uncharted 2 is exempt from this, but it's sales are moderatly strong, especially considering since Uncharted 1 wasn't that special (BTW, I own and beat it).

I'll tell you, one of the big reasons I still play Halo 3 is to see a Grunts head explode with colouful paper, and hear Horray!

However, I'll agree with you about sony not focusing on any key franchises, thats why none of their big games (except Gran Turismo) ever see huge marketing.


Gear IS NOT owned by Microsoft.

http://spong.com/article/20904/Epic-Gears-of-War-Not-Owned-By-Microsoft

I already said it way earlier in this thread, Besides HALO what other MS IP sells truck loads?

Fable 3m plus

Forza 3m

Crackdown 1.5m

Lost odessy 800k

 

LBP 3m

Uncharted 3m

Infamous 1.6m

god of war 3m

Demon souls 700k

 

Besides GT5 and Halo both MS and Sony IP's sells the same ammount the only difference is SONY pumps out more IP's.

 

 



mhsillen said:
Jordahn said:
mhsillen said:
ultraslick said:

Sony has the best first party developers which create new ips all the time.

Why doesnt Microsoft do this? Because they buy their exclusives and have almost zero first party devs.

Why doesnt Nintendo do this? Because they have a legacy of Mario and Pokemon and Metroid which they rarely go away from for a new ip.

Halo is Halo, Gears is popular because outside of those 2 games there is really only Fable and Fortza, that IS microsofts first party.

Sony does infact get recognized for Mega franchises. Gran Turismo > Halo world wide

Metal Gear, Uncharted, Little Big Planet, Ratchet and Clank > Gears.

You ask why arent there more mega franchise games, I ask why isnt there more diversity in the competition?


Please:

Wii Fit

Nintendogs

Wii sports

All new IP's


Ummm...  Nintendo fanboy speaking here.  This might be out of context but as a hardcore gamer and Nintendo fanboy here, the titles you listed does almost nothing to enhance and strengthen the hardcore/core gaming experience.  But then again, I think I'm on context here.

Hardcore, please that is a word that defines nothing. Those are new IP's that are popular and sell boatloads.

Saying hardcore is code for stupid retarded gameplayers.  And using motion controls, they are most certainly game changers.

And you must realize hardcore as you put it are just a fraction of people who purchase games

 

"stupid retarded gameplayer' Awwwwwww what a casual thing to say LMAO



evolution_1ne said:
mhsillen said:
Jordahn said:
mhsillen said:
ultraslick said:

Sony has the best first party developers which create new ips all the time.

Why doesnt Microsoft do this? Because they buy their exclusives and have almost zero first party devs.

Why doesnt Nintendo do this? Because they have a legacy of Mario and Pokemon and Metroid which they rarely go away from for a new ip.

Halo is Halo, Gears is popular because outside of those 2 games there is really only Fable and Fortza, that IS microsofts first party.

Sony does infact get recognized for Mega franchises. Gran Turismo > Halo world wide

Metal Gear, Uncharted, Little Big Planet, Ratchet and Clank > Gears.

You ask why arent there more mega franchise games, I ask why isnt there more diversity in the competition?


Please:

Wii Fit

Nintendogs

Wii sports

All new IP's


Ummm...  Nintendo fanboy speaking here.  This might be out of context but as a hardcore gamer and Nintendo fanboy here, the titles you listed does almost nothing to enhance and strengthen the hardcore/core gaming experience.  But then again, I think I'm on context here.

Hardcore, please that is a word that defines nothing. Those are new IP's that are popular and sell boatloads.

Saying hardcore is code for stupid retarded gameplayers.  And using motion controls, they are most certainly game changers.

And you must realize hardcore as you put it are just a fraction of people who purchase games

 

"stupid retarded gameplayer' Awwwwwww what a casual thing to say LMAO


Boy I messed that comment up

I meant when hardcore says casuals its code for retarded stupid gameplayers

Thanks for bringing that to my attention I must be extremely casual

 



evolution_1ne said:
Michael-5 said:
VXIII said:

I agree with RolStoppable. In the past Sony has really made some genre defining, or redefining games, but this generation not so much.

VXIII I agree with you on God of War, that game redefined the genre, but not mainly with it's gameplay, with it terific plot, gory battles (I mean ripping a head off!?!), and topless sex depicting cut scenes. Then again, this is one of PS3's best selling games, already selling 3 million units. Thats more then any Action game I know.

Metal Gear Solid is also genre defining, but thats the best selling PS3 exclusive, and has been among the best selling exclusives on a Sony console since the franchise started.

Twisted Metal also used to be big on the PS1 era, I'm a big fan of the franchise, but Sony butchered the series when they released "Small Brawl", and as a PS2 game, Twisted Metal Black didn't offer much (outside of the amazing cinematics). The PS3 version looks very cheap as well, why does an entire building fall when you shoot the corner? The physics and gameplay engine are simply too dated, and Sony hasn't really put enough $$$ into Twisted Metal since the PS1 titles.

As for ICO, Shadow of the Colosus, and Heavy Rain those are fairly niche games. Why didn't Mass Effect, Lost Odyssey, Alan Wake or better yet Baten Kaitos sell well? Amazing games, just poorly marketed, and they appeal to a smaller audience.

MAG was a concept, it was a game designed to show people that you can have smooth 256 player multiplayer on the PS3. What does that prove? More oponents doesn't mean better multiplayer, Gears of War 1 got away with 4 vs 4, and Halo 3 was limited to 32 players (I haven't played in a while, is this right?)? MAG didn't redefine anything. lmao.... name one game that can be compared to MAG in ANYWAY..... look up the definition of redefine and get back to me,   

Modern Warfare really defined realistic shooters, and by realistic I mean your not fighting Aliens, or a planet that doesn't exist. By real I mean your fighting using guns which simulate real guns, in environments which simulate real places, and battles which simulate potential wars (it's a game some fiction must be used). Modern Warfare 2 took off because many gamers missed Modern Warfare 1, or simply wanted more.

Basically, you can't blaime just marketing, there are other factors involved. Killzone is an awesome game, and it pushed the bar graphically on what the PS3 can do, but it doesn't look that much better then Gears of War 2, and the Plot is not that different from older FPS games, it's not that different from Halo. Gears of War was the first amazing third person shooter. Yes there was Kill Switch beforehand, but that was a glitchy game with a mediocre story. Halo was epic in 2001, and in 2004 it defined online console gaming.

As for LittleBigPlanet, yes it came out before New Super Mario Bros Wii, but Super Mario Bros is a 20 year old franchise, that defined platforming, and a new game after what about 20 years? THATS EPIC! I know people who don't play games who wanted a Wii for this thing because of nostalgia.

Sony makes some great games on the PS3, there is no doubt about that. However, I already forgot the Plot to Resistance 1, yet I still remember what happened in Halo 1, and going back further I still remember all the environments and level layouts to Donkey Kong Country. I cannot say that about Sonic, which was also a great game.

You think that both GoW and MGS are genre defining but as you can see they're not mega franchises like Halo or Gears , it's more like you disagree with him XD .

we can't just blame lack of innovation in Sony games ( which is not true, and you seem to agree with me about some games) as he suggests either .

I think Sony is happy with it , they seem that they don't want to focus on single franchise to make it mainstream therefore they don't launch huge marketing campaigns, building a mega library is all that matters,  but I don't know for sure just like everybody else in this thread.

On the PS3, Metal Gear Solid, and God of War are borderline mega-franchises. On the PS2 and PS1 MGS sold over 5.5 million copies, thats a lot, just a touch below Gears of War, which is definatly a mega franchise. After actually looking up God of War sales, I'll take back them being a mega franchise, 3.73 for God of War 1 is not enough to be mega in my opinion.

It definatly is not the lack of innovation, but a lot of the bigger PS3 eclusives don't really seem to offer much. I mean what does Killzone do that Halo or Call of Duty don't do better? appeal to casual gamers...

 

What make the Chimera more interesting over the Covanent or Locust? Killzone, and Resistance are interesting games, but offer no real solid reason to switch from a bigger franchise.

Uncharted 2 is exempt from this, but it's sales are moderatly strong, especially considering since Uncharted 1 wasn't that special (BTW, I own and beat it).

I'll tell you, one of the big reasons I still play Halo 3 is to see a Grunts head explode with colouful paper, and hear Horray!

However, I'll agree with you about sony not focusing on any key franchises, thats why none of their big games (except Gran Turismo) ever see huge marketing.

you guys really have to come to terms with hype and marketing, Killzone 2 had 1 televised commercial that released 1 day before the game was released, Halo had it's own fucking clothing, food, and toy line, with a launch party that rivaled the launch of the 360

and can everyone here please STFU about Gears which is NOT a M$ ip...... 

I know Gears of War is not a MS owned franchise, I only mention it because it's a mega franchise, and I compared it to MGS which also is not a Sony owned franchise. It was a just comparision.

Also, that bullet commercial for Killzone was epic, but Halo 3 had it's own line of energy drinks, so people can play Halo.

Funny that I don't see as much commercialization for Halo Reach. I have yet to see Halo: Reach diapers and laundry soap...



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