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Forums - Sales - 360/Wii/PS3 US pre-orders vs first week worldwide sales (2010)

You really shouldn't do a ratio between America's pre-orders and WW week 1 sales because there's no record of pre-orders for the rest of the world, which means the ratio is distorted and doesn't truly reflect the pre-order to Week 1 sales sell through.

For instance Madden's ratio looks like crap compared to Mafia II's. But in the America pre-orders vs America week 1 ratio Madden's ratio is better than Mafia II's. Clearly Mafia II had reasonable pre-orders in other countries, whereas Madden probably had almost none.



“The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.” - Bertrand Russell

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace."

Jimi Hendrix

 

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GreyianStorm said:

This is certainly an interesting topic. I'd love to see some comparison made between past/upcoming titles too, as I think that could give us some extra insight. Just something off the top of my head would be this: CoD MW2 vs Halo Reach (using Halo 3/Halo 3 ODST ratios as a loose guide).

First week sales for Halo 3/ODST were roughly 3:1 in favour of Americas compared to EMEAA (Halo 3: 2.8m vs 0.9m, ODST: 1.67m vs 0.5m). In comparison, first week sales of CoD MW2 (on 360) were 2:1 in favour of Americas compared to EMEAA (3.28m vs 1.6m).
For (American, as that's what we get) preorders, MW2 finished at approximately 1.85m I believe (I can only find 1 week before, where it was at 1.7m with a week to go, so I'm approximating). We can see that sales of MW2 in Americas were ~72% higher than preorders. For ODST, preorders totaled 1.35m, which meant that total sales (in Americas) were only about 23% higher than preorders. I can't seem to find pre-order numbers for Halo 3, so it would be great if someone could find them for me.

Based on these figures, it would seem to suggest that Halo sales are more pre-ordered than other blockbusters (though ODST was widely seen as an expansion pack, so it's also not surprising that only the more "dedicated" would appear to have purchased, and many of those would be more likely to pre-order than the more "casual" gamers). While it's hardly an exact science, this to me gives the impression that while Halo Reach may have more American pre-orders than MW2 (on Xbox 360), it is quite possible that the number of non-pre-ordered copies will be lower. Similarly, sales in EMEAA are likely to be lower than American sales for Halo Reach, in relative terms at least when compared with many other large franchises. As I've said, these are all estimates, but I just think it is interesting to look at. It's things like these (Halo being far bigger in Americas than EMEAA compared with other titles, pre-orders for Americas as such making up a larger portion of overall first-week sales than other titles), that leads me to believe that Reach is unlikely to beat MW2's (360) first week sales worldwide. All just food for thought, and definitely only a theory, but I thought it might be something you guys might all be interested in.

 

EDIT: So, I think my actual point was that it would be interesting to see sales of previous entries in franchises (for example, Fifa 10 pre-orders/sales ratio to see how Fifa 11 might end up), and I just went into far too much detail with my example.

Many websites along with Microsoft advertized that Halo 3 was the first game ever to break 1 million pre-orders. I think I remember hearing that it had 1.1 million pre-orders, but I can't reference that, been a while. The game had 3.8 million week one sales, 2.8 of which were in Americas. So it sold 155% more copies then Pre-orders in Americas, assuming 1.1 million pre-orders. Thus giving an Americas ratio of 1.55, and a worldwide ratio of 2.45.

ODST had 2.2m week one sales, 1.7m in Americas. However that game only had 754k pre-orders a week before launch (not 1.35, where did you get that figure?). So it sold 127% more copies in Americas then it had pre-orders. Therefore the Americas Ratio is 1.27, and the worldwide ratio is 1.93

Modern Warfare 2 had 4.9 million week one sales, 3.3 million of them in Americas. So the game sold 78%  more copies then Pre-orders in Americas, assuming Pre-orders of 1.85 million (not 72%, I don't know where you got that number). So the Americas ratio is 0.78, worldwide ratio is 1.65.

It's a very logical and intelligent point saying that Halo Reach may not necessarily outsell Modern Warfare 2 Worldwide just because Americas Pre-orders are a bit higher since most of Halo sales are are in the americas, and thus it's pre-orders should be high there. However, most of Halo 3 sales were not off pre-orders, and the game has an americas ratio thats just about as big as Modern Warfares 2 worldwide ratio. IF Halo Reach can hold these sales ratios, it could sell over 6.5 million copies week 1. 6.5 MILLION!!! That means Halo Reach will outsell both Halo: Combat Evolved and Halo 3: ODST in a single week of sales.

Remember, this game will break the record for having the most Pre-orders for a single platform. It should outsell Modern Warfare 2.



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The numbers do seems random at times though, some games even sell less then there pre-orders in there first week, I'm not sure you can ever find a predictable pattern.



binary solo said:

You really shouldn't do a ratio between America's pre-orders and WW week 1 sales because there's no record of pre-orders for the rest of the world, which means the ratio is distorted and doesn't truly reflect the pre-order to Week 1 sales sell through.

For instance Madden's ratio looks like crap compared to Mafia II's. But in the America pre-orders vs America week 1 ratio Madden's ratio is better than Mafia II's. Clearly Mafia II had reasonable pre-orders in other countries, whereas Madden probably had almost none.

Well until we get European pre-orders and whatnot this is the best I can do.



GreyianStorm said:

This is certainly an interesting topic. I'd love to see some comparison made between past/upcoming titles too, as I think that could give us some extra insight. Just something off the top of my head would be this: CoD MW2 vs Halo Reach (using Halo 3/Halo 3 ODST ratios as a loose guide).

First week sales for Halo 3/ODST were roughly 3:1 in favour of Americas compared to EMEAA (Halo 3: 2.8m vs 0.9m, ODST: 1.67m vs 0.5m). In comparison, first week sales of CoD MW2 (on 360) were 2:1 in favour of Americas compared to EMEAA (3.28m vs 1.6m).
For (American, as that's what we get) preorders, MW2 finished at approximately 1.85m I believe (I can only find 1 week before, where it was at 1.7m with a week to go, so I'm approximating). We can see that sales of MW2 in Americas were ~72% higher than preorders. For ODST, preorders totaled 1.35m, which meant that total sales (in Americas) were only about 23% higher than preorders. I can't seem to find pre-order numbers for Halo 3, so it would be great if someone could find them for me.

Based on these figures, it would seem to suggest that Halo sales are more pre-ordered than other blockbusters (though ODST was widely seen as an expansion pack, so it's also not surprising that only the more "dedicated" would appear to have purchased, and many of those would be more likely to pre-order than the more "casual" gamers). While it's hardly an exact science, this to me gives the impression that while Halo Reach may have more American pre-orders than MW2 (on Xbox 360), it is quite possible that the number of non-pre-ordered copies will be lower. Similarly, sales in EMEAA are likely to be lower than American sales for Halo Reach, in relative terms at least when compared with many other large franchises. As I've said, these are all estimates, but I just think it is interesting to look at. It's things like these (Halo being far bigger in Americas than EMEAA compared with other titles, pre-orders for Americas as such making up a larger portion of overall first-week sales than other titles), that leads me to believe that Reach is unlikely to beat MW2's (360) first week sales worldwide. All just food for thought, and definitely only a theory, but I thought it might be something you guys might all be interested in.

 

EDIT: So, I think my actual point was that it would be interesting to see sales of previous entries in franchises (for example, Fifa 10 pre-orders/sales ratio to see how Fifa 11 might end up), and I just went into far too much detail with my example.

I will be adding almost every game that is on the pre-orders chart in the next week or so (the pre-order charts came late last August I believe)



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yo_john117 said:
binary solo said:

You really shouldn't do a ratio between America's pre-orders and WW week 1 sales because there's no record of pre-orders for the rest of the world, which means the ratio is distorted and doesn't truly reflect the pre-order to Week 1 sales sell through.

For instance Madden's ratio looks like crap compared to Mafia II's. But in the America pre-orders vs America week 1 ratio Madden's ratio is better than Mafia II's. Clearly Mafia II had reasonable pre-orders in other countries, whereas Madden probably had almost none.

Well until we get European pre-orders and whatnot this is the best I can do.

The best you can do until we get Worldwide pre-orders, in terms of mathematical integrity, is for your ratio to be Americas Week 1:Americas pre-orders.

If you get Europe and America and still do a ratio with WW week 1 sales then it would still be a non-rational ratio, especially for a game that does particularly well in Japan (RE5, MGS4, NSMB Wii, GT5[no doubt]). Outside of Europe, Americas and Japan there are about 10 million PSWii360's. While not a huge % of the market it can still have a distorting effect on numbers.

Of course America's Software sales numbers are also not completely related to the pre-order chart given VGC weekly data is for Nth and Sth America whereas the pre-order chart is for North America only (does it include or exclude Canada). I guess for data approximation it would be best if the America's week 1 sales were reduced by about 18% (what the Source does to estimate / compare with NPD). That would be about as close to accurate for sales:pre-order as you could get I think.

What you're doing is great, and the more interesting data I get to see on this site the better. So I totally support what you're doing and appreciate the effort you're putting in to it. I was going for constructive criticism, trying to help improve your good work. Apologies if it didn't come out that way.



“The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.” - Bertrand Russell

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace."

Jimi Hendrix

 

Great.



binary solo said:
yo_john117 said:
binary solo said:

You really shouldn't do a ratio between America's pre-orders and WW week 1 sales because there's no record of pre-orders for the rest of the world, which means the ratio is distorted and doesn't truly reflect the pre-order to Week 1 sales sell through.

For instance Madden's ratio looks like crap compared to Mafia II's. But in the America pre-orders vs America week 1 ratio Madden's ratio is better than Mafia II's. Clearly Mafia II had reasonable pre-orders in other countries, whereas Madden probably had almost none.

Well until we get European pre-orders and whatnot this is the best I can do.

The best you can do until we get Worldwide pre-orders, in terms of mathematical integrity, is for your ratio to be Americas Week 1:Americas pre-orders.

If you get Europe and America and still do a ratio with WW week 1 sales then it would still be a non-rational ratio, especially for a game that does particularly well in Japan (RE5, MGS4, NSMB Wii, GT5[no doubt]). Outside of Europe, Americas and Japan there are about 10 million PSWii360's. While not a huge % of the market it can still have a distorting effect on numbers.

Of course America's Software sales numbers are also not completely related to the pre-order chart given VGC weekly data is for Nth and Sth America whereas the pre-order chart is for North America only (does it include or exclude Canada). I guess for data approximation it would be best if the America's week 1 sales were reduced by about 18% (what the Source does to estimate / compare with NPD). That would be about as close to accurate for sales:pre-order as you could get I think.

What you're doing is great, and the more interesting data I get to see on this site the better. So I totally support what you're doing and appreciate the effort you're putting in to it. I was going for constructive criticism, trying to help improve your good work. Apologies if it didn't come out that way.

Oh no I'm always open to constructive criticism, and the reason why i'm doing it the way you see in the OP is so that we can look at the pre-order numbers from the US and see what a future game might sell worldwide.

Lol its hard for me to let you know what i'm trying to say here (I know what i'm trying to get to in my head but I just can't seem to type it in a way that would make sense that easily)

Let me try an example....

Ok so this thread will help if someone wanted to have a general idea of what a game like Assassins Creed: Brotherhood will sell for its first week worldwide.  You would come by this assumption by looking at the Assassins Creed 2 (I haven't added this game but I will hopefully get most of the games that have come out since the pre-order chart has appeared) ratio for pre-orders vs its 1st week in worldwide sales. 

Hope this helped you (sorry if it didn't)



OP updated for the week

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Game releases for the week of September 4th

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1. Metroid: Other M (action)

Console US pre-order sales America 1st week sales Worldwide 1st week sales Ratio
Wii 152,511 204,860 284,657 1.87


Good idea, but like some other people have said, the ratio should just be for American sales.  Any game that is American centric will have a really low ratio, and any game that is Japan or Euro centric will have a really high ratio.

Take DQIX for instance.  Granted it just misses your cutoff with 35,345 preorders, but if you did look at the ratio it would be 70.  It really isn't possible to extrapolate worldwide numbers unless you are comparing games from the same series.  Even then, in an extreme case like DQ IX, a moderate increase in American preorders can have a drastic impact on WW sales.  A 15k increase in the US would work out to over one million worldwide.  Obviously this won't be the case in reality.