By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - General Discussion - Gay Bar Opening Up Next to Ground Zero Mosque!!!

FaRmLaNd on 17 August 2010
superchunk said:
FaRmLaNd said:
 

That would mean that the vast majority of people that say they're of a relgion aren't. Most Christians don't follow all of the 10 commandsments or any of the more archaic laws of leviticus for example. The same goes for many Muslims I assume. The point is, when someone says they're of a religion then regardless of what you say thats what THEY consider THEMSELVES. There are so many ways to interpret holy books that its not really you're right to not call them what they say they are, because I'm sure from there perspective they wouldn't consider the less agressive members of their faith true members of the faith either. Every single sect thinks they have the correct interpretation and from my perspective I couldn't care less, since all religion relies on faith (eg no good reason to believe the things they do). You can't have the good and say the bad doesn't exist, that'd be like saying the members of the inquisition weren't Christian, they certainly were.

I'd have to disagree with you on this sort of.

While yes I agree that if someone calls themselves a ....., then yes they believe they are regardless of anything else. However, from the perspective of their actions you as an outsider can determine if they are actually following the base ideals of that faith.

In the case of Islam its even more difficult as most muslim groups don't even pull the majority of their laws from the Quran. Especially those extremist groups like the Taliban. Instead they derive their ruleset from a collection of quotes they beleive came from the prophet. (You can read my other posts on this for more clarity or look up Sunnah, which is the Sunni collection) These quotes often contradict themselves, other groups collections, and the Quran. Its completely illogical and I for one haven't ever understood why anyone with knowledge of Islamic history would follow anything but what the Quran says. (Given their Muslim of course)

Thats the hadith, isn't it? From what I've read it seems to cause a lot of the issues?

Look, don't get me wrong, I'm not fan of any version of a religion thats extremely violent and intolerant of others (and I support any move by those of the faith to reform, or to try and spread more peaceful versions), as an atheist I oppose it all, but its a fine balance between decrying faith alltogether and attacking specific versions of a faith and I don't get the balance right all the time since my initial impulse is to say its all crap, but when one does that you lose a lot of people that would be you're ally intellectually.



Around the Network
AnthonyW86 on 17 August 2010

They should get a picture of Mohammed in a leather suit as a mascot, that might stur things up a bit.



Lazthelost on 17 August 2010

I really don't understand where all of this prejudice is coming from. If they want to build a Mosque, fine. A gay bar next door, that's fine, that is their prerogative. But to wish things out of spite and hatred is just ridiculous. If it was a Church being built no one would be complaining. There is actually a Mosque residing 4 blocks from ground zero, although it seem like nobody brings that up, but when it comes 2 blocks closer, "OMG" America look out!

(My Own Opinion)
This hatred and prejudice surrounding this topic is really making me feel ashamed of the typical American Attitude. As a Christian I think they should have the right to build a Mosque. I can tell you a sure fire way to not show love is to hate people, and I'm pretty sure Jesus would be disgusted.



superchunk on 17 August 2010
FaRmLaNd said:
superchunk said:
FaRmLaNd said:
 

That would mean that the vast majority of people that say they're of a relgion aren't. Most Christians don't follow all of the 10 commandsments or any of the more archaic laws of leviticus for example. The same goes for many Muslims I assume. The point is, when someone says they're of a religion then regardless of what you say thats what THEY consider THEMSELVES. There are so many ways to interpret holy books that its not really you're right to not call them what they say they are, because I'm sure from there perspective they wouldn't consider the less agressive members of their faith true members of the faith either. Every single sect thinks they have the correct interpretation and from my perspective I couldn't care less, since all religion relies on faith (eg no good reason to believe the things they do). You can't have the good and say the bad doesn't exist, that'd be like saying the members of the inquisition weren't Christian, they certainly were.

I'd have to disagree with you on this sort of.

While yes I agree that if someone calls themselves a ....., then yes they believe they are regardless of anything else. However, from the perspective of their actions you as an outsider can determine if they are actually following the base ideals of that faith.

In the case of Islam its even more difficult as most muslim groups don't even pull the majority of their laws from the Quran. Especially those extremist groups like the Taliban. Instead they derive their ruleset from a collection of quotes they beleive came from the prophet. (You can read my other posts on this for more clarity or look up Sunnah, which is the Sunni collection) These quotes often contradict themselves, other groups collections, and the Quran. Its completely illogical and I for one haven't ever understood why anyone with knowledge of Islamic history would follow anything but what the Quran says. (Given their Muslim of course)

Thats the hadith, isn't it? From what I've read it seems to cause a lot of the issues?

Look, don't get me wrong, I'm not fan of any version of a religion thats extremely violent and intolerant of others (and I support any move by those of the faith to reform, or to try and spread more peaceful versions), as an atheist I oppose it all, but its a fine balance between decrying faith alltogether and attacking specific versions of a faith and I don't get the balance right all the time since my initial impulse is to say its all crap, but when one does that you lose a lot of people that would be you're ally intellectually.

Yep the hadiths and I agree with you on everything else.



sapphi_snake on 18 August 2010
BMaker11 said:

As for the gay bar, I back that as well. He's probably be retaliatory because he's one of those people who jump to conclusions (he works for Fox News after all)...but at the same time, the Islamic culture is so homophobic for ridiculous reasons. If you open yourself to understand others, or at least try, you will see that some of the things we believe are just trivial and down right stupid, and this guy opening a gay bar may not be a direct implementation of what I just said, but it definitely is in an indirect way. I was quick to say that the gay bar was intolerant, because...look at the source. Like I said before, he's probably one of the people in the camp who believe the muslims are being disrespectful, so he immediately wants to piss them off. But in an indirect manner (which is what I'm getting at), the muslims will actually have the opportunity to know about the gay community, and that they aren't just sinful infidels who are godless and are going to hell.

Have you ever been to a gay bar? Scratch that. Have you ever been to a bar/club? Think for a minute about what goes on in those places (I'm talking about bars/clubs in general, not just gay ones).



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

Around the Network
Killiana1a on 18 August 2010

So easily how some threads turn into bashing Fox News.

First, Greg Gutfeld is not gay. He is married to Elena Moussa.

Second, co-host Bill Schulz, if you watch regularly, has gay tendencies and is teased to death by Greg in almost every episode for being in the closet. Or is it Andy?

Finally, not every show on Fox News is infested with that rank from Sean Hannity's asshole, excuse me...his mouth. Yes, Gutfeld is a libertarian placing him right of center on the political spectrum, but he is not some partisan hack like Hannity.



Alby_da_Wolf on 18 August 2010

The real hit would be to open a progressive Islam gay mosque...

If a bigot prick like Khomeini managed to bend the Quran up to making legit anal sex between rich old geezers and poor little girls bought as concubines and between poor sods and sheeps and camels (as long as the animal, become impure, is slaughtered after and its meat is not sold in the sod's village), I guess it's possible also to give any interpretation to it, as long as it's given by an Islmic authority backed by a community large and powerful enough.



Stwike him, Centuwion. Stwike him vewy wuffly! (Pontius Pilate, "Life of Brian")
A fart without stink is like a sky without stars.
TGS, Third Grade Shooter: brand new genre invented by Kevin Butler exclusively for Natal WiiToo Kinect. PEW! PEW-PEW-PEW!