they would have put it up at first but later removed it

and kojima only said MGSPW was the real next MGS cause of the Rising release,he would say the same when he releases MGS5 on PS4

if you really thing that is bullshit then you are being delusional,kojima has always stated PS is the real home of MGS

and abt reaching new audiece,you have got to be kidding me? - wider audience with PSP where sales are worst.you only post whatever you want the things to be like but you are wrong alot of times

Thank you for the clarification. However we don't judge the sucess of a console bundle baised on theoretical price cuts.

As for this 350 Euros PS3, thats a lot of money. Some extreme gamers (who don't already have a PS3), will want to pick up the bundle, but I just can't see something so expensive taking off. I do beleive Move will do moderatly well, I just doesn't see most people getting the top package.

Sorry I live in Canada, Wii is $210 here. Also wow really, a 250 gig 360 is the same price as a 160 gig ps3? $400 bundle looks nicer because of the bigger hard-drive, but like I said you can buy a Wii and X-Box for that price.

sure you could but you could buy the ps3 alone for that price with hd gaming of xbox and motion gaming and much much more

PS3 motion gaming will NEVER be anywhere nearly as good as the Wii. Kinect too, Wii is amazing, just play it someday, PS3 MOVE will just never have the game library as the Wii, nor the innovation of Nintendo. It's easy to exactly copy ideas.

 It's a good bundle, but it's still $400 and I know people who buy two or three cars for that price.

two to three cars..............lmao

are those toy cars

My sisters boyfriend bought a Pontiac Sunfire for $100 and it lasted an entire year. I'm not completly sure how old the car was, but it was under ten years old. :P This comment was only intended to be a joke, but it's not hard to find a car for under $400, $700 is ideal, but still a PS3 MOVE bundle or a car....hmmm.... Prices canadian too btw, so the car was actually $90 US.

and they must be very very poor and this doesn't concern them atall as they are nowhere near targeted or even know what a ps3 or xbox or a wii is

This was a joke man, relax

 
I'm saying at that price, you can get an X-Box, and a Wii.

or you could buy a single standalone device having both the features and much much more

See there is the fault in your logic, the standalone device does not even have all the features of a Wii or a 360, and does not offer anything more except Blu-Ray. I can't watch videos off my computer from my x-box (I have to manually transfer files using a USB on a PS3), Sports Champions and any Wii - knockoff titles will never ever be as good as Nintendo titles, I can't have two profiles on the same console at the same time (so I can't play against friends locally), I can go on...

The Wii will be better then PS Move, and X-Box is the same quality as PS3 (not going to argue about that now, so don't go off saying PS3 is better because of blah blah blah).

the wii will be better????????????? - hasn't wii already been on the market for 4 years and PS MOVE is certanly better than the wii

and if you don't want an argument then don't bullshit others that xbox is the same as PS3.

 Your just very one minded, do you really think the PS3 is in any way better then the 360 gaming-wise? Do you seriously love your PS3 soo much for ignore all forms of competition? I mean ..... I'm just done with you. If your not going to be logical, why bother. Go beleive your PS3 MOVE bundle is better then a Wii and a 360, I'll just watch PS3 sales not even budge over Move, and see Sports Champions get a 7/10 rating.

Seriously wow.......

Some people, who actually just want a PS3, with a few games that can use the Wii-mote, but not many. Sony is trying to tap into Nintendo's market, simple as that and at $400, $400!!! I don't see many systems selling

actually they actually do sell alot of their higher priced PS3 SKU's

How many? Is this your opinion or can you back it up? I know when Microsoft used to have a $400 Elite, a $300 Pro and a $200 Arcade, 80% or consoles sold were Pro Models, and only 10% were Elite/Arcade models each.

$50 for the Move controller, $80 for the Move controler and PS Eye, wasn't the last one $120 for a Move Controller, PS Eye, Navigation Controller, and Sports Champions. I specifically recall the top Move bundle being priced $120.

you really need to do some research,you base your claims on false stuff and try to argue  or you just make your own facts to prove your points and however you want it to go

$49 for the MOVE controller

there is no bundle containing just the eye and move

only bundle is PS eye,ps move,sports champions

Nope I looked it up, $50 for Move Controller, $90 for Move with PS Eye, $100 for PS Eye, Move Controller, and Sports Champions. $130 for a Move controller, Sports Champions, PS EYE, and a Navigation controller.

It's just that the only bundle is the Sport Champions and console bundle, however I was not wrong about my prices, I do my research.

Standalone, the Move controller is $50, Eye is $40, Sports Champions is $30, and Navigation Controller is $30.

Also stop being insulting, your making very biased illogical arguements, and I make one price mess up of $10, seriously...

Kinect..

still not proven 

and by next step it means a more premium experience and of HD

Whats not proven? Pre-orders it's already twice as big as Move and it's not comming out for 2 more months. At least it's not a complete Wii immitation.

Main thing blocking PS3 sales was price? Thats odd since the 360 Elite and PS3 have been the same price for a year and a half, and thats when PS3 sales have been highest.

yeah and at the same time XBOX 360 has had a way cheaper version of their console but PS3's cheapest version is as cheap as the costliest version of XBOX 360

But that still hasn't changed and never will. If Sony makes a price cut, so will Microsoft.

this comment of yours just showed that you have been bullshiting all along and that you are biased along with your previous comments

How?

reporting wrong facts to prove your point and make other believe that the other system does really have anything different.comapring highest priced to other consoles lowest priced version,etc

Wrong facts? Dude I made a $10 price mistake, big deal!

Now your just being a baby, you know I'm right, most people in this forum agree with me, I'm even getting messages saying I'm great at debating, but your still going on. Why is everything a competition with you? Why can't you accept loss sometimes?

If you really beleive Sports Champions will sell over 10 million go ahead! I'm not stopping you. You can beleive the same about Gran Turismo. I'm just giving very logical reasoning onto why it won't sell 10 million. My initial comment wasn't even towards you, and you bud in man. Other people even say "why are you turning this into a gran turismo versus halo thread?"

Seriously..

Also, $400... you said price is the main issue for low sales and well......$400!!!

sure it  is 

but not as high priced as it first was

ps3 had a huge priced but it survived and has done very very well for its price.np other console would have survived it.all goes to the strong PS brand.

people are now purchasing the ps3 which they wanted at first cause its cheap now and might consider adding an accessary.

When PS3 launched at the 360 was $400 (for 20 gigs), PS3 sales were not that great, and more people are buying 360's now, and have been since the launch of the PS3. Thats why the sales difference is still 5.3 million and growing (and only dropped because of a PS3 Slim).

No doubt the PS3's Playstation/Sony brand name helps sales. Were not talking about SEGA here, I have a PS1-3, and borrow a PSP, if they weren't great consoles, why would I buy one?

Still the 360 is selling more, and even if the PS3 came with a convertible sports car, and a sexy girl, if it costs a million dollars it won't sell that well.. (This is a joke too).

$400 is a lot of money, and PS3 only sells about 11 million a year. Even if 20% of new PS3 owners buy that package, thats only 2 million a year, and with about 3 years left on the market (assuming MOVE continuously sells 20% of PS3's, PS3 sales remain constant and Sports Champions is still bundled with the Move/PS3), it's still going to be short by at least 2 million (including $100 bundle buyers). This still is an optimistic estimate, as I beleive the Kinect will have a 20% attach rate, and Move 10%.

Right Price, $120 includes the navigation controller, which is essential to play most hardcore games (killzone). $100 gets you a Sports package, but without the navigation controller, you won't be able to play many games.

again wrong

there is no $120 bundle

Didn't say bundle, and it's $130, sorry I'M OFF BY $10!!! SHOOT ME!

Kinect however is getting Pre-orders, it has a large foundation of games

we can't track move pre-orders then how the hell can you say that

and how the hell does kinect has a large foundation of games??????????????????

your bias is leaking from your posts

Kinect has 15 titles is this holiday,move has more than 30 and more in Q1 2011

Wow seriously, your unbeleivable. Going nuts on me for a $10 price mistake and giving completly random numbers for games.

VG Chartz tracks pre-orders for games, and if you ever read one of those pre-order analysis's, you will see that Kinect is a lot more popular then the Move.

also what Bias? I HAVE BOTH A PS3 and a 360! What consoles do you have? Seriously? I also get a Wii from a friend from time to time, own a DS, and also borrow a PSP now and then, so I have access to them all.

As for titles, Kinect has 15 launch games, and 20 games releasing before the end of 2010, 15 of which are exclusive to the Kinect (EA Sports Active 2.0, Michael Jackson, Zumba Fitness, Harry Potter, and Imagine Fashion Party are mulitconsole).

Move as 21 games either MOVE compatible, or releasing before the end of 2010, 14 of which are exclusive to the Move.

So about the same, but to be fair, only 9/14 PS3 exclusive Move games are exclusivly for move, where 14/15 360 Kinect exclusives are Kinect only (The odd one out is Fable 3).

comes with a much more reasonable $300 bundle,

how the hell can you say its reasonable????????????????

it depends from what the individual consumers need is

 $300 is a far more reasonable price considering a PS3 is $300, an Elite 360 is $300, and a Wii is $200. If your going to compete against the Wii, making a knockoff product for double the price is definatly not reasonable.

The $400 Move bundle is still awesome, but I seriously doubt the average gamer (Wii/PS2 gamer) has $400 to spend on a system that immitates a $200 Wii which has a much better library. This $400 is going to appeal to more hardcore gamers.

Why do you argue with everything? Now $300 is less reasonable then $400 when for the last year no console has cost $400?

and from what I hear (PS3, Wii, and 360 owners alike), Kinect looks awesome.

you must be living in your own world if you are hearing from all the console owners

and from your post history not mcuh else can be expected from you

hm..... looking at your post history, everything is an arguement where PS3 is better in every way imaginable, and that it's the worst selling console out of the big 3 for magical reasons.

Do you even have anything other then a PS3? Cause I have at least one console from every make. I own 4 Nintendo consoles (not the Wii :( ), all Nintendo Handhelds except Game & Watch, all Playstation consoles, a Sega Genesis, Dreamcast, and CD, and have access to a Wii, PSP,X-Box and a Sega Gamegear. The ONLY one I can't play is the SEGA Saturn, and 20 year old Atari consoles.

You critisizing me for being bias, yet I have no plans to purchase either a Kinect or MOVE, I have Gran Turismo 5 AND Halo: Reach Pre-ordered, and essentially have all the big consoles.

Good Job.

It's inovative,and thats what made Nintendo so big this generation.

its inventive not innovative

and nintendo being so big this gen had a biggest of help from then industry leader's this gen console being so highly priced

Now your going to critisize my terms? Watch a Nintendo Press conference, the single most often used word Nintendo uses to describe themselves is Innovative. When I say Kinect is innovative, I mean just that, just like Nintendo has been innovative for decades.

MOVE is a Wii copy.

Kinect is going to sell because it's new, Move isn't because it's an immitation Wii-mote.

sure it will sell

but the point you are depedning upon doesn't always come true.not all new things sell.

and if MS need to improve kinect software alot

If MS need to improve kinect software a lot? wow, sorry how old are you? I'm 21.

Lets see what happenes, I usually make good predictions.

and so are all on this site and veterans who all have different views and all have failed predictions time and time again

Only you argue against me, I haven't had people tell me that NO Kinect and Halo will fail misrubly, and if they did I would discuss why they think so.

So far my only two big debates have been....with you... discussing that Gran Turismo will be bigger then GT 1, 2, 4 and also Halo. The other being right were where I simply just said that I don't think Sports Champions will sell 10 million....and then you started calling my bias, and that I make up numbers, and that I must be wrong because my sentences are coherent and make sence, and aren't baised entirely off opinion.

Michael-5 said:

50 Euros is still a lot of money, and I don't see too many peoples being moved by the MOVE. I don't think a console MOVE bundle will push more then an ordinary game bundle because the MOVE really doesn't look that much more exciting.

People may not buy  for move but they will buy for the bigger HDD and many have been buying the bigger one as its so low priced

but statistics say otherwise, generally the lower end PS3's sell better.

 Kinect is getting more pre-orders weekly then the MOVE is getting in total, and Kinect is still 2 months to launch.

we don't know what shit is happening out of America which is SONY's biggest place and where MOVE is way cheaper than here

Even if Move numbers are 10x American Pre-orders in Europe, it's still behind Kinect saleswise

I just don't see the move selling, maybe MOVE will sell 10 million units on it's own at best, but the number of which that are bundled with Sports Champions should fall way short.

who is even talking abt 10m,if if anybody did don't quote me and explain

If Move doesn't sell 10 million, how will Sports champions?

Beleive what you want, I just find it shocking to put Sports Champions on the list, even Kinect Adventures will have trouble passing 10 million units.

the way you say "even kinect adventures will have trouble passing 10 million units" makes it sound like it is more likely to sell which is bullshit as its no cheap thing either and the games are full of shit even for a family

And you blaime me for being biased...... You really should read what analysts say, and just look at the huge difference in Pre-Orders.

PS3 motion gaming will NEVER be anywhere nearly as good as the Wii. Kinect too, Wii is amazing, just play it someday, PS3 MOVE will just never have the game library as the Wii, nor the innovation of Nintendo. It's easy to exactly copy ideas.

lmao

you say MOVE will never be as good and then add Kinect.you just failed completely there

i have played wii and its fun for sometime but i just can't play games like those when i have ohter big games

and saying its easy to copy idea,kinect did just that

How do I fail completly? I own both a 360 and PS3 and I know neither the Kinect/Move will be as good as Wii. Simple, and unbiased. The fact that your only arguing for the Move, and your entire game library is Playstation games tells me that your just some super sony fanwho is extremely biased.

BTW What product did Kinect copy? I don't know of a single gaming product like it.

My sisters boyfriend bought a Pontiac Sunfire for $100 and it lasted an entire year. I'm not completly sure how old the car was, but it was under ten years old. :P This comment was only intended to be a joke, but it's not hard to find a car for under $400, $700 is ideal, but still a PS3 MOVE bundle or a car....hmmm.... Prices canadian too btw, so the car was actually $90 US.

even if i was getting a car that cheap,just wouldn't buy it.

You wouldn't, but not everyone has $400 to spend on a console, this was just a comparision.

This was a joke man, relax

 well you should convey more properly as your comment was just plain and straight forward

says the one with broken english in half his comment.

See there is the fault in your logic, the standalone device does not even have all the features of a Wii or a 360, and does not offer anything more except Blu-Ray. I can't watch videos off my computer from my x-box (I have to manually transfer files using a USB on a PS3), Sports Champions and any Wii - knockoff titles will never ever be as good as Nintendo titles, I can't have two profiles on the same console at the same time (so I can't play against friends locally), I can go on...

you really need to correct your own logic

blu-ray a very good feature

and you can watch video on your PS3 from your PC

and how the hell can't sports champions be better than nintendo title,i'm not saying it will but there are alot of genres that nintendo isn't that good

you can go on and you know the same can i

stupid reasons always

You cannot connect your PC and share files through your PS3, you can only connect your PC to a hard-drive directly and use the files, but not share them.

Blu-Ray is the only feature the PS3 has that the Wii and 360 do not, and other then the two or three 360 multi-disk games, it is useless for gaming.

I can go on, and you know the same can i? Please work on your english, I simply don't understand this.

Your just very one minded, do you really think the PS3 is in any way better then the 360 gaming-wise? Do you seriously love your PS3 soo much for ignore all forms of competition? I mean ..... I'm just done with you. If your not going to be logical, why bother. Go beleive your PS3 MOVE bundle is better then a Wii and a 360, I'll just watch PS3 sales not even budge over Move, and see Sports Champions get a 7/10 rating.

you need to be logical yourself first

silly reasons that you put out are full of shit and if you were done then why write this shit load of post 

and you go believe that 360 trumps PS3 and nothing can be better than wii

your latter comment again proved what you are on,i never spoke about PS3 sales of Move sales being big or causing any disturbance.

you only think people are in this for the wars and you support and hope the kinect will do wonders.keep doing your thing then

Seriously, your telling me that my explanations are shit, and you really have no way to disagree against me. You have no reason to disagree and your bashing me simply to tell me off, and hold ground for PS3.

PS3 is a superior console in some ways, it does have blu-ray, but in others it's inferior to it's competition. Just like every other console, please grow up.

How can I be in comments for the flame wars when I have both a PS3 and a 360, and yet I favor the Wii which I don't own?

and I simply said that I really doubt Sports champions will break 10 million, you completly started some flame war over that comment.

Seriously wow.......

yeah you really need to go check into med care

wow.....

 
How many? Is this your opinion or can you back it up? I know when Microsoft used to have a $400 Elite, a $300 Pro and a $200 Arcade, 80% or consoles sold were Pro Models, and only 10% were Elite/Arcade models each.

cause the difference was more,here the difference is just 50 euros not 100

Those prices were American, and the Move PS3 bundle is $100 US more then the regular PS3.

Nope I looked it up, $50 for Move Controller, $90 for Move with PS Eye, $100 for PS Eye, Move Controller, and Sports Champions. $130 for a Move controller, Sports Champions, PS EYE, and a Navigation controller.

It's just that the only bundle is the Sport Champions and console bundle, however I was not wrong about my prices, I do my research.

Standalone, the Move controller is $50, Eye is $40, Sports Champions is $30, and Navigation Controller is $30.

Also stop being insulting, your making very biased illogical arguements, and I make one price mess up of $10, seriously...

and what else were we discussing.you are just adding standalone prices and posting them as one

we have already posted standalone move as individually

whatn even the worth of posting the shit you are doing again and again

bundle is a different thing where you get a discount

and how the hell id it bias when i post individual prices and bundle prices

 Your calling me a 360 fanboy because I make a $10 error in price, which I admitted fault to, and yet your still going on and on insulting me simply because I do not agree with you that the Move will be successful.

your posts are so foolish

Yet you reply by saying "Your full of shit, everything I say is right because it just is" 

Whats not proven? Pre-orders it's already twice as big as Move and it's not comming out for 2 more months. At least it's not a complete Wii immitation.

yeah and just in america,shows how limited you think

and VGC doesn't track move either

just showed your bias again.you say move imitated wii when kinect did the same with eyetoy

your posts just proved what you are

VgChartz tracks Sports champions pre-orders in Americas. Doesn't say if it includes console bundles, but when it's released it will include all sales figures of the game, with or without bundles.

Also there are 14 million PS3's in Americas, and 16 million in Europe. Americas is literally half the market, and generally PS3 game sales are evenly distributed among it's Americas and Europe Markets. Exceptions do exists, but it's unlikely that the Move will do any better then twice as well in Europe as it does in Americas

WHAT BIAS?!?! seriously..... You keep saying I am biased, but how? Because Kinect has more pre-orders then Move and is lreleasing a month and a half later? Thats not bias, thats facts.

Also Kinect is very different from Eyetoy, it's a far more advanced 3D camera that can detect a larger rainge of motions and thus allow different types of gameplay (like EA Sports Active, Dance Central, and Your Shape). Eyetoy needs the assistance of Move to recognise these motions, and follows the exact same Wii-mote/Nunchuck configuration as a Wii controller.

But that still hasn't changed and never will. If Sony makes a price cut, so will Microsoft.

if you know that then why were you comparing ELITE with PS3 120gb

showed your bias again

Because they were the same price? Seriously, stop calling my biased, you have no grounds on it. You just lost this debate and your being a sore loser because someone talked down on the PS3 and had logical reasons to do so.

Also if your going to comment on my last message, at least quote the message so other people don't have to scroll up to read it, and it also lets me read my original message, not just one sentance of it which may not be an accurate representation of the message.

How?

Wrong facts? Dude I made a $10 price mistake, big deal!

yeah the same mistake happening again and again,thats perfectly normal for a person like you i guess

comparing costlier sku with the cheapest sku of the other console

saying one thing copied other and saying the other thing didn't

saying one pricy accessory far outdoes the other lower priced one and on and on and on

wow, the insults never stop, stop being a sore loser, I compared ALL models of PS3 with ALL models of 360 and the Wii. Yes I did compare the Kinect and Move bundles, which do have a $100 price difference, hence why I beleive the Kinect will take off better among new console owners.

Kinect also hasn't officially announced it's price, and even if it does cost $150, it's one camera for two players. The Move bundle with a second Move controller is also $150, so Kinect isn't nesessarily more expensive. You also need two Move controllers to play that fighting game for Move.

and Kinect is similar to the PS Eye, I can admit that, but the camera is far more advanced and recognized objects in 3D, not just two. So it's different, the Move does nothing a Wii-mote with Wii Motion Plus can't do, it's also got the exact same button layout, and a bundled game which is very similar to the game bundled with a Wii. Thus I have justification to say Move is an immitation, and Kinect is not.

Now your just being a baby, you know I'm right, most people in this forum agree with me, I'm even getting messages saying I'm great at debating, but your still going on. Why is everything a competition with you? Why can't you accept loss sometimes?

you getting msg of great debating,thats your defense to your bias.......................lmao 

and what loss are you talking about,this isn't about win or loss.it maybe for a bias person like you

Your entire message consists of telling me that "I am wrong because I am biased" yet your adding nothing to this debate. Grow up kid.

If you really beleive Sports Champions will sell over 10 million go ahead! I'm not stopping you.

you really need to get yourself checked

i never said sports champions would sell 10m

But your scolding me because I replied to someones comment questioning Sports Champions. Why?

You can beleive the same about Gran Turismo. I'm just giving very logical reasoning onto why it won't sell 10 million. My initial comment wasn't even towards you, and you bud in man. Other people even say "why are you turning this into a gran turismo versus halo thread?"

i didn't even comment at any halo comment or any different topic comment of your in this thread

how the hell did halo relate to this thread

Earlier in the thread, when I initially made my comment saying Zero games you did. Other members even said things along the lines of "This got turned into another GT5 thread and that was not my intent.  I am done with Gt5 talk for today.  Cheers." in response to your comment.
Seriously..

yeah seriously you need to stop

When PS3 launched at the 360 was $400 (for 20 gigs), PS3 sales were not that great,

what else did i say????????

and more people are buying 360's now,

yeah from what,last 2 months

and still being cheaper than PS3

When the Arcade 360 was released, sales jumped by 30k in the Americas, when the equally priced hardcore 360 package was released, sales jumped by 150k in both US and European regions. The majority of 360 buyers are buying the more expensive $300 250gig 360, which is the same price as the PS3. I have read articles saying that over 80% of 360 owners buy the higher end model.

Even then PS3 sales were only above 360 sales due to the PS3 Slim, before August 2009, 360 sales were superior. PS3's sales lead was temporary.

and have been since the launch of the PS3. Thats why the sales difference is still 5.3 million and growing (and only dropped because of a PS3 Slim).

again showed your bias

the sales increase was majorly because of the price

and i never said PS3 sold more than 360 or there was no gap so you shwoing those stats is useless

Where did you read that the 360 outsold the PS3 from 2007-2009, and then again since June 2010 due to price? Last I checked PS3 and 360 prices on equivalent models was the same since 2008.

If your referencing the Arcade 360, that will always be cheaper then the higher end gaming 360 model, which will always be the same price or cheaper then a PS3 (it's cheaper to build). So if price is the reason 360 outsells PS3, then I assume your telling me that the 360 will always outsell the PS3?

No doubt the PS3's Playstation/Sony brand name helps sales. Were not talking about SEGA here, I have a PS1-3, and borrow a PSP, if they weren't great consoles, why would I buy one?

when did i ask what you bought it for or didn't buy it?

you are making up your own statements and questions and answering them again and again quoting me

Well if you quoted my entire message, not just random sentences, as well as the message I responded to, then you would see that you said: ps3 had a huge priced but it survived and has done very very well for its price.np other console would have survived it.all goes to the strong PS brand., and I agreed that Sony was a strong brand name. Now your just insulting me when I agree with you. WOW...

You should really focus any responce you make onto not insulting me, actually reading my comment, and debating my points.

The purpose of me mentioning my owning of PS1-3, and borrowing a PSP is to show that I am not biased. If I hated the PS3,and anything Sony, why would I buy all the consoles? Makes no sence, and what really makes no sence is that your entire responce essentially says I am biased because I don't beleive the Move and Gran Turismo will sell ridiculous number, even when I have good reasons to think otherwise.

How come you never quote my reasons and explanations, and simply quote me when I compare Move to Kinect, or Move to Wii? and you say I am in here for the flaming...

Still the 360 is selling more, and even if the PS3 came with a convertible sports car, and a sexy girl, if it costs a million dollars it won't sell that well.. (This is a joke too).

bad joke and why is the need of it?

its like you are in a circus and trying to make people laugh but not suceeding and unneccesarily keep posting one

If the joke was unnessesary, then why quote that among the many things I said, and why insult me on it? That hardly adds to the debate...

$400 is a lot of money, and PS3 only sells about 11 million a year.

it sure is alot of money and sure is what you spend on other consoles.

and PS3 sold 13m last year.

again wrong figures

this is whats called a bias if you don't know by now

PS3 sold 12.59 million units, not 13 million, and if you take an average from 2007-2009 you will see that the PS3 sells on average 9.98 million consoles a year. (9.72 million in 2008, and 7.62 in 2007). So if I had any bias, it would be Sony bias because I over-estimated PS3 sales.

So right figures, and no bias. I just proved it. You may argue that 2010 the PS3 will sell better then it did in 2007 and 2008, but many analysts agree, and so does VGChartz data up to this date, that the PS3 is not selling as well in 2010 as it did in 2009. So 11 million is still accurate.

Even if 20% of new PS3 owners buy that package, thats only 2 million a year, and with about 3 years left on the market (assuming MOVE continuously sells 20% of PS3's, PS3 sales remain constant and Sports Champions is still bundled with the Move/PS3), it's still going to be short by at least 2 million (including $100 bundle buyers). This still is an optimistic estimate, as I beleive the Kinect will have a 20% attach rate, and Move 10%.

the price is much lower in other parts of the world so taking NA price tag and comparing it to WW figures and even stating lower WW figures

man that this totally wrong

your whole post shows how you are trying to undermine the PS3 and MOVE.

and Move doesn't have to push PS3 alone,people were as it is buying the bigger HDD version and now MOVE comes with it and it will also sell standalone

I keep saying the PS3 and Move are a good product, yet I am trying to undermine the Move. No, I am simply stating reasons why I don't beleive Sports champions will sell 10 million units, and it being bundled with the Move, thus permits me to talk about the Moves attach rate.

50 Euros is less then $100, but it's still something like $63.53. I don't talk about European prices because I am not familiar with past prices and exhange rates from 1 Euro to 1 USD. Move will sell a lot better in Europe, not doubt about that, but no more then twice as good, and thats still very poor sales-wise.

I reference USD prices because I live in Canada, and generally most people I meet online are American. So it's easier to refer to.

Didn't say bundle, and it's $130, sorry I'M OFF BY $10!!! SHOOT ME!

whats the need of putting all out when we have already first Put out the individual prices

Because every comment you make about me says I am biased, and the only potential thing I did to show any bias was overestimate PS3 sales (so PS3 bias), and mess up the Move price with a navigation controller by $10 (so 360 bias). I do apoligize on both parts, now can you please stop insulting me and mocking my comment? If your not going to make a proper responce, and simply mock me, then don't respond. I am not trying to make a flame war here, but all you do is mock me because I disagree with you.

Wow seriously, your unbeleivable. Going nuts on me for a $10 price mistake and giving completly random numbers for games.

it wasn't random number of games,its what the titles are releasing this fall

and the mistake doesn't happen so many times

I made a simple $10 price error, and you flame me for being biased. You try to undermine the Kinect library by saying the Move will have double the library by the end of 2010, when in reality Move has 1, a single game more then Kinect and it's on the market for a mont hand a half longer.

You stated that the PS Move will have 30 titles by the end of the year, when it only has 21 games, and then said Kinect has 15 titles by the end of the year, when it has 20 games.

How is that for bias? Now should I reply to every comment you make from now on as being biased? NOOO!!!!! So stop doing that to me.

VG Chartz tracks pre-orders for games, and if you ever read one of those pre-order analysis's, you will see that Kinect is a lot more popular then the Move.

oh yeah right i didn't know that....................meh

and you really need to read the pre-orders yourself.they only track america.

not considering WW numbers which we don't have and just saying that Kinect is doing better than MOVE basing on america numbers were PS3 is weak is foolish again

This is a proper responce. Good Job. Anyway, Move will sell better in Europe then it will in the states, but pre-orderwise, the Move is really far behind Kinect in Americas, and even if Kinect does half as well in Europe as it does in Americas, and Move does twice as well... It's still far behind. It's fair to say Kinect will be a lot more popular.

P.S. Many European countries like UK strongly favor the 360 over the Wii, so in countries like UK, sales mimic US sales quite well. However, Europe is only about 10% the EMEAA market. 

consolealso what Bias? I HAVE BOTH A PS3 and a 360! What s do you have? Seriously? I also get a Wii from a friend from time to time, own a DS, and also borrow a PSP now and then, so I have access to them all.

so you have ps3 and 360 and and everything else and we don't know for real and even if you do that just wopes away all the bias your comments put out,yeah right...................lol

Well it shows that I have no reason to be biased, I made one $10 price error, but I also over-estimated PS3 average sales. You gave the PS Move 9 extra titles for 2010, and ignored 5 for Kinect, and said the Move had double the library. Thats a much bigger statement, and made no biased errors in favor of 360. Just simply called my comments shit because they were pro-Kinect and anti-move.

As for titles, Kinect has 15 launch games, and 20 games releasing before the end of 2010, 15 of which are exclusive to the Kinect (EA Sports Active 2.0, Michael Jackson, Zumba Fitness, Harry Potter, and Imagine Fashion Party are mulitconsole).

Move as 21 games either MOVE compatible, or releasing before the end of 2010, 14 of which are exclusive to the Move.

biased again

move has near 40 compatible titles

Wow, I'll name them all, do your research kid, and stop calling me biased because first you told me Move has 30 compatible titles, now it's almost 40. Both wrong, and growing.

List of compatible Move games for 2010 : Beat Sketch!, Brunswick: Pro Bowling, Create, Dance Dance Revolution, EA Sports Active 2.0, The Fight: Lights Out, John Daly's ProStroke Golf, Kung Fu Rider, LittleBigPlanet 2, Michael Jackson: The Experience, NBA 2K11, R.U.S.E., SingStar Dance, The Sly Collection, Sports Champions, Start the Party, The Lord of the Rings: Aragon's Quest, The Shoot, Time Crisis: Raging Storm, Tran Evolution, TV Superstars, Zumba Fitness.

It's 22 games, I forgot to include EA Sports Active 2.0 when I quoted 21 games.

So what games am I missing for 2010? Show me this bias I have, I am just stating facts, and that makes me biased now...man...I guess these numbers you make up make you unbiased, and anyone that disgrees (against PS3 specifically) is biased.

it depends from what the individual consumers need is

 $300 is a far more reasonable price considering a PS3 is $300, an Elite 360 is $300, and a Wii is $200. If your going to compete against the Wii, making a knockoff product for double the price is definatly not reasonable.

hell you say it depedns on what the individual consumer wants then bullshit your own opinion

and you say Kinect XBOX $300 is reasonable when you have to go out and buy a $120 something HDD and even then only 250gb

and you say MOVE competiting with Wii which is cheaper and the same time back Kinect when PS2 and Eyetoy are much cheaper

bias bias bias

Wii has no internal hard-drive, why do casual gamers need 250 gig hard-drives? This is why Kinect is bundled with the arcade model, to compete against the Wii. 4 gigs is plenty for saves since most saves take up only a couple megabites each. $400 for the PS3 Move bundle is overkill, and Microsoft may release a $400 250 gig bundle 360 down the road too, which I still think is overboard, but if the consumer needs 250 gigs, then thats always an option.

Eyetoy is not a compeditor for the Kinect, does eyetoy recognize 3D images and return them in HD? Also why bring in PS2? If anything PS3 with Eyetoy would be the compeditor and thats still over $300

Seriously bias? your comparing the 360 Kinect with PS2....

The $400 Move bundle is still awesome, but I seriously doubt the average gamer (Wii/PS2 gamer) has $400 to spend on a system that immitates a $200 Wii which has a much better library. This $400 is going to appeal to more hardcore gamers.

how does wii have much better library gain i didn't undestand.yeah its good but it gets bored after a few hours

Moves library by the end of 2010 is only 22 titles, I don't know exactly how many games the Wii has, but it's definatly over 400. Thats 20 times the amount of games, and some of them are really awesome. Have you ever picked up a Metroid title, Mario Party 8, Mario Kart Wii, Any Super Mario title, Zelda, Smash Bros, Pikmin? All amazing titles. Metroid alone is better then any FPS I have ever played.

When you start to insult the Wii, the best selling home console this gen (and likely all time as from launch the Wii is outselling the PS2), thats shows bias. Move AND Kinect, will never be as good as the Wii

Why do you argue with everything? Now $300 is less reasonable then $400 when for the last year no console has cost $400?

why do you bullshit so much and run your biased comments on this forum?

again just because last year no console was $400,its not reasonable.you need to go the meaning of that word

See pure insults, and again I am biased.

Look I said X-box 360, I'm biased now because I said it and didn't put it down :O!!!!!

 hm..... looking at your post history, everything is an arguement where PS3 is better in every way imaginable, and that it's the worst selling console out of the big 3 for magical reasons.

really cause i never said ps3,360 or wii are better than each other.they are good in their own way

and again your biased satement,you basing your argument on sales of ps3 are last when we aren't disscussing sales here and what does them have to do with this

You just said Move is better then Wii, and since Move is only part of PS3 you implied PS3 is better then the 360. You also definatly said the 360 is inferior to the PS3 as a console, and game-wise. If you want I will look for those comments and post them.

According to you, were talking about how biased I am, and how all my comments are bullshit, because your really not making any points. You made one point when you finally looked at Kinect versus Move pre-orders and realized how much more poular the Kinect already is.

Do you even have anything other then a PS3? Cause I have at least one console from every make. I own 4 Nintendo consoles (not the Wii :( ), all Nintendo Handhelds except Game & Watch, all Playstation consoles, a Sega Genesis, Dreamcast, and CD, and have access to a Wii, PSP,X-Box and a Sega Gamegear. The ONLY one I can't play is the SEGA Saturn, and 20 year old Atari consoles.

so?????????????????????

So I am biased because I own and play games from every manufacturer, and I buy games on all consoles, where your completly unbiased because your games list only includes PS1-3, and PSP games.

You keep critisizing that I am biased, but the evidence is against you.

You critisizing me for being bias, yet I have no plans to purchase either a Kinect or MOVE, I have Gran Turismo 5 AND Halo: Reach Pre-ordered, and essentially have all the big consoles.

Good Job.

saying is harder than doing it and owning it

? I do own a PS3/360...

Now your going to critisize my terms?

just correcting and you really do need to know the meaning of your terms above in your posts

I just explained why I used the word innovative. I used the term correctly, and I choice that word because Nintendo always uses innovative in their press conferences to describe their products. Half of your comments have incorrect grammer, bad spelling, and your correcting me on my choice of words to describe Kinect?

I choose to describe the Kinect as innovative, you may disagree, but I used the term correctly. Your just flaming EVERY SINGLE COMMENT I MAKE, for the purpose of what? Making PS3 look better to someone who owns a PS3?

Watch a Nintendo Press conference, the single most often used word Nintendo uses to describe themselves is Innovative.

so they said and you believed them

i never said they weren't but your way of prooving it total bullshit

Proving What? Kinect is innovative! Thats proper english, seriously, don't respond to comments if all your going to do is flame and insult me.

When I say Kinect is innovative, I mean just that, just like Nintendo has been innovative for decades.

nintendo has

kinnect isn't,its inventive

Thats your opinion, but I say it's innovative. Your not making a correction, you simple disagree, just say that next time.

MOVE is a Wii copy.

sure is kinect that you are bullshiting as innovation of eyetoy

If any moderators read this, please ban both me and Solid Snake.

This has gotten to be ridiculous, please close this thread. I don't know how to approach this situation, and do not want to be pushed to insult someone. I know I'm not perfect, I'm responding to something that is completly written to be critical. This guy just wants to insult me and tell me I'm wrong, he wants to say I am biased, just because he disagrees, and then refuse to explain why. He does not want to engage in debate, and this type of commenting is ruining VGChartz. Please ban us both and close this thread.

If MS need to improve kinect software a lot? wow, sorry how old are you? I'm 21.

ooh so you  judge by age

biased in yet another thing

by now i am sure your life is biased

Please moderators, at least close this thread, this has gotten to be ridiculous. I aparently am biased no matter what I say, and I cannot engage in debate.

Only you argue against me, I haven't had people tell me that NO Kinect and Halo will fail misrubly, and if they did I would discuss why they think so.

neither did i say that

go to a hospital,you really need help

and many people argue with you on other topics and you write shit load of quoted replies to everybody

See Mods, he is telling me to go to a hospital because I beleive Kinect Halo and Kinect will be successes.

So far my only two big debates have been....with you... discussing that Gran Turismo will be bigger then GT 1, 2, 4 and also Halo.

i never debated halo flopping with you and don't think it will flop

and i never said GT will be as big as 1,2,4.

i just said it will reach 10m

GT2 sold 9.37 million units, so by selling 10 million units, Gran Turismo 5 must be bigger then GT2. Please read my comments.

The other being right were where I simply just said that I don't think Sports Champions will sell 10 million....

again i never did say that.you really need to go see a doctor

you are remember who said what and then allege different people of paying things that others said

I don't even understand that sentence, and you judge me on my use of the term innovative. I mean seriously "You are remember", "who said what and then allege different people of paying thing thats others said" Howdo people pay things that others say?

And my whole comment, that you began to flame, and the purpose of this long debate was that I don't beleive Sports Champions will sell 10 million units. Look back, I have been debating that the whole time, where you have simply been insulting me, and calling me biased. Why? because I give logical reasons onto why Move w/ Sports Champions will not sell 10 million units. GT5 as well.

and then you started calling my bias, and that I make up numbers, and that I must be wrong because my sentences are coherent and make sence, and aren't baised entirely off opinion.

i totally stand on that one your all your post bleed bias

 So you admit my sentences are coherent, make sence, and aren't biased? You also admit that your calling me biased unjustly.

lol, I don't think you inteded that, but you agreed with me when I said yout calling me bias, when I'm not biased, and simply because your opinion is different. lol!!!

If your going to call me biased, and insult me because I mentioned a Move price that was $10 off, critisize my choice of the word innovative, telling me that my comments are bullshit, and false because you just can't accept logic?

you need to understand your own logics first,learn the meaning of some words,making mistakes again and again and saying that one peripheral costing more has  more chance of selling than another basing of one region,and many other things

Innovate: To introduce something new; make changes in anything established.

Well lets see, Kinect is similar to Eyetoy, but unlike Eyetoy it recognizes objects in three dimensions (not just two), and allows a more sophisticated selection of motions. Thus permitting dance games, and fitness games to properly work. Hmm... seems like a significant change to me, seems to innovate by definition.

Innovating: Tending to innovate

hm.... well since Kinect innovates, It's innovative. Proper selection of words, please stop insulting everything I say. Stop acting like a child.

I made no errors except for the $10 price mistake and over-estimating PS3 average PS3 sales.

I do generalize Move and Kinects popularity on the americas region because the Move will not be any more then twice as popular in Europe then it will in the Americas. Generally (looking at what various analysts have to say on VGChartz, Gametrailers, and IGN), Kinect is the more anticipated title, and it's pre-orders are currently twice as large as Moves Pre-orders, despite comming out a month and a half later.

I give reasons to my logic, and I make my own estimates on the market.

You do not have to agree with me, but please respond with something better then "your biased because I have no good reason to contradict you."

I'm just not going to reply to you, just like most other people here. I have better things to do then argue with a teenager who thinks he knows everything about the world.

but so you type the big load of shit again and again.and you are baised again on the age.and you being older as one of your defense points of your arguments.......................lmao

Your acting like a 12 year old child, I don't care about how old you are, doesn't change the fact that your acting like a 12 year old child.

Just watch Move sales in a month...

we actually don't track move sales so we won't know how much they sell

VG Chartz does track Sports Champions sales, so you will know how well that peripheral sells, just like Wii Sports Resorts with the Wii Motion Plus, Wii Fit with the Wii balance board, and Kinect with Kinect adventures.

You can buy a Move without Sports Champions, but only a few hundred thousand people have a PS3 Eyetoy, so most Move owners will have the Sports bundle, and thus it is an accurate representation of Move sales. You can't assume Move sells 5 million units, when Eyetoy and Sports Champions sell 1 and 2 million respectivly.

Seriously, moderators, come read this and ban us both. Close the thread at least. this is ridiculous, users shouldn't be able to insult others and repeatedly call them biased. Clearly Solid Snake wants to insult me, and flame me and nothing more, and if you have to ban me to ban him doso. This is ridiculous, the forums could do better without us.