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Forums - Sales Discussion - Christmas 2010: PS3 vs Xbox360

MARCUSDJACKSON on 30 July 2010
NeoRatt said:

DC Universe Online will not sell systems.  It is a new gaming IP and rarely do they push systems unless they are released as part of a console launch.  Also casual gamers will be turned off by the monthly fee.  LBP 2 is not a system seller...  LBP 1 never pushed significant systems so how will LBP 2?

PS3 has GT5 and Move as their key selling points for the holiday.

For 360...  Halo Reach probably won't push many new systems (Halo 3 already grabbed most of those)...  There will be a boost on Reach's release because of the Reach Slim.

Instead 360 will rely on a price drop, the new slim design, and Kinnect for their big selling points.

360 will win simply because many existing owners will upgrade to the new slim.

The wild card is that we are probably not done all the game announcements for 2010 yet.  I can't believe that Rare has spent two years on Kinnect Sports. 


i agree with everything but the LBP. really i'm split on that one, because sequels usually sell consoles and more units in comparison, but of course it doesn't always happen.

and as for Rare. for MS they were a waste of money. it really hurt to say that, but it's true. for me being a fan of Rare and counting on them to bring me to the 360 (used of course)! 



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XxXProphecyXxX on 30 July 2010
Killiana1a said:

Microsoft will win beyond a reasonable doubt with the Halo Reach bundle and Kinect bundle. As for the markets, the usual PS3 dominating Japan and  the 360 dominating the Americas. 

Funny, racing fans keep bringing up the concept of "long legs," what does that mean?

Personally, I think counting the numbers of a game  to make the argument it has "long legs" when it has not sold 3 to 5 million in it's 1st year is pointless and almost every single video game executive would agree with me. You can tell from the first month sales, hell even the first week sales whether a game is going to be a huge seller or not.

Blur was released on May 25, 2010 and has sold less than 1 million copies between the PS3 and 360. Forza Motorsports 3 was released in October 2009 and it looks like it will take another 5 to 10 years for it to reach Forza Motorsports 2 numbers.

In a similar vein, Gran Turismo 4 sold 10 million copies. Do you think the publishers of Gran Turismo 5 are expecting it to match? I would think so, but then again it has been 5 years since GT4 and the market has changed.

Here is my argument: the racing genre is no longer on par in relevance compared to the FPS, RPG (including MMORPG), and Action Adventure genre. Yes, Gran Turismo will always sell and we will see Mario Kart and Need for Speed games, but looking at the racing games of this generation compared to the last, the enthusiasm for racing games present in the PS2 era is no longer here.

Please prove me wrong with hard numbers.

Sure, just make sure you  don't disapear in this site once GT5 proves you wrong.



Killiana1a on 30 July 2010
XxXProphecyXxX said:
Killiana1a said:

Microsoft will win beyond a reasonable doubt with the Halo Reach bundle and Kinect bundle. As for the markets, the usual PS3 dominating Japan and  the 360 dominating the Americas. 

Funny, racing fans keep bringing up the concept of "long legs," what does that mean?

Personally, I think counting the numbers of a game  to make the argument it has "long legs" when it has not sold 3 to 5 million in it's 1st year is pointless and almost every single video game executive would agree with me. You can tell from the first month sales, hell even the first week sales whether a game is going to be a huge seller or not.

Blur was released on May 25, 2010 and has sold less than 1 million copies between the PS3 and 360. Forza Motorsports 3 was released in October 2009 and it looks like it will take another 5 to 10 years for it to reach Forza Motorsports 2 numbers.

In a similar vein, Gran Turismo 4 sold 10 million copies. Do you think the publishers of Gran Turismo 5 are expecting it to match? I would think so, but then again it has been 5 years since GT4 and the market has changed.

Here is my argument: the racing genre is no longer on par in relevance compared to the FPS, RPG (including MMORPG), and Action Adventure genre. Yes, Gran Turismo will always sell and we will see Mario Kart and Need for Speed games, but looking at the racing games of this generation compared to the last, the enthusiasm for racing games present in the PS2 era is no longer here.

Please prove me wrong with hard numbers.

Sure, just make sure you  don't disapear in this site once GT5 proves you wrong.

I have been wrong many a time before and have a strong enough ego to come back. Heck, I comment on political blogs where have had my whole posts turned upside down, corrected, and shoved down my throat while the other commentators laugh.That is with my real name attached to the posts.

So no, I will not disappear and I stand by my argument that GT5 will not sell as well as GT4 and other racing games did during the PS2 era and before. If anyone will be proven wrong it will be the GT fans who believe with all their heart and soul that GT5 will push 7 to 10 million in it's first year and sell 5 million PS3s at the same time.



XxXProphecyXxX on 30 July 2010
Killiana1a said:
XxXProphecyXxX said:
Killiana1a said:

Microsoft will win beyond a reasonable doubt with the Halo Reach bundle and Kinect bundle. As for the markets, the usual PS3 dominating Japan and  the 360 dominating the Americas. 

Funny, racing fans keep bringing up the concept of "long legs," what does that mean?

Personally, I think counting the numbers of a game  to make the argument it has "long legs" when it has not sold 3 to 5 million in it's 1st year is pointless and almost every single video game executive would agree with me. You can tell from the first month sales, hell even the first week sales whether a game is going to be a huge seller or not.

Blur was released on May 25, 2010 and has sold less than 1 million copies between the PS3 and 360. Forza Motorsports 3 was released in October 2009 and it looks like it will take another 5 to 10 years for it to reach Forza Motorsports 2 numbers.

In a similar vein, Gran Turismo 4 sold 10 million copies. Do you think the publishers of Gran Turismo 5 are expecting it to match? I would think so, but then again it has been 5 years since GT4 and the market has changed.

Here is my argument: the racing genre is no longer on par in relevance compared to the FPS, RPG (including MMORPG), and Action Adventure genre. Yes, Gran Turismo will always sell and we will see Mario Kart and Need for Speed games, but looking at the racing games of this generation compared to the last, the enthusiasm for racing games present in the PS2 era is no longer here.

Please prove me wrong with hard numbers.

Sure, just make sure you  don't disapear in this site once GT5 proves you wrong.

I have been wrong many a time before and have a strong enough ego to come back. Heck, I comment on political blogs where have had my whole posts turned upside down, corrected, and shoved down my throat while the other commentators laugh.That is with my real name attached to the posts.

So no, I will not disappear and I stand by my argument that GT5 will not sell as well as GT4 and other racing games did during the PS2 era and before. If anyone will be proven wrong it will be the GT fans who believe with all their heart and soul that GT5 will push 7 to 10 million in it's first year and sell 5 million PS3s at the same time.

Thats why your skeptical....

No1 claims GT5 to push 5m console WTF even GTA4 with it's hype didn't do that.

No1 also claims GT5 will do 10m in it's first year, MORE like 10m LTD(LIFE TIME SALES) not first year.



Killiana1a on 31 July 2010
XxXProphecyXxX said:
Killiana1a said:
XxXProphecyXxX said:
Killiana1a said:

Microsoft will win beyond a reasonable doubt with the Halo Reach bundle and Kinect bundle. As for the markets, the usual PS3 dominating Japan and  the 360 dominating the Americas. 

Funny, racing fans keep bringing up the concept of "long legs," what does that mean?

Personally, I think counting the numbers of a game  to make the argument it has "long legs" when it has not sold 3 to 5 million in it's 1st year is pointless and almost every single video game executive would agree with me. You can tell from the first month sales, hell even the first week sales whether a game is going to be a huge seller or not.

Blur was released on May 25, 2010 and has sold less than 1 million copies between the PS3 and 360. Forza Motorsports 3 was released in October 2009 and it looks like it will take another 5 to 10 years for it to reach Forza Motorsports 2 numbers.

In a similar vein, Gran Turismo 4 sold 10 million copies. Do you think the publishers of Gran Turismo 5 are expecting it to match? I would think so, but then again it has been 5 years since GT4 and the market has changed.

Here is my argument: the racing genre is no longer on par in relevance compared to the FPS, RPG (including MMORPG), and Action Adventure genre. Yes, Gran Turismo will always sell and we will see Mario Kart and Need for Speed games, but looking at the racing games of this generation compared to the last, the enthusiasm for racing games present in the PS2 era is no longer here.

Please prove me wrong with hard numbers.

Sure, just make sure you  don't disapear in this site once GT5 proves you wrong.

I have been wrong many a time before and have a strong enough ego to come back. Heck, I comment on political blogs where have had my whole posts turned upside down, corrected, and shoved down my throat while the other commentators laugh.That is with my real name attached to the posts.

So no, I will not disappear and I stand by my argument that GT5 will not sell as well as GT4 and other racing games did during the PS2 era and before. If anyone will be proven wrong it will be the GT fans who believe with all their heart and soul that GT5 will push 7 to 10 million in it's first year and sell 5 million PS3s at the same time.

Thats why your skeptical....

No1 claims GT5 to push 5m console WTF even GTA4 with it's hype didn't do that.

No1 also claims GT5 will do 10m in it's first year, MORE like 10m LTD(LIFE TIME SALES) not first year.

I'm skeptical because there are too many posts from GT fans saying how GT5 will be the biggest system seller for Sony since Final Fantasy 7 was for the PlayStation. Gran Turismo 5 will sell nowhere near a quarter of the PS3s as Final Fantasy 7 did for the PlayStation.



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Jay520 on 31 July 2010
Killiana1a said:
XxXProphecyXxX said:
Killiana1a said:
XxXProphecyXxX said:
Killiana1a said:

Microsoft will win beyond a reasonable doubt with the Halo Reach bundle and Kinect bundle. As for the markets, the usual PS3 dominating Japan and  the 360 dominating the Americas. 

Funny, racing fans keep bringing up the concept of "long legs," what does that mean?

Personally, I think counting the numbers of a game  to make the argument it has "long legs" when it has not sold 3 to 5 million in it's 1st year is pointless and almost every single video game executive would agree with me. You can tell from the first month sales, hell even the first week sales whether a game is going to be a huge seller or not.

Blur was released on May 25, 2010 and has sold less than 1 million copies between the PS3 and 360. Forza Motorsports 3 was released in October 2009 and it looks like it will take another 5 to 10 years for it to reach Forza Motorsports 2 numbers.

In a similar vein, Gran Turismo 4 sold 10 million copies. Do you think the publishers of Gran Turismo 5 are expecting it to match? I would think so, but then again it has been 5 years since GT4 and the market has changed.

Here is my argument: the racing genre is no longer on par in relevance compared to the FPS, RPG (including MMORPG), and Action Adventure genre. Yes, Gran Turismo will always sell and we will see Mario Kart and Need for Speed games, but looking at the racing games of this generation compared to the last, the enthusiasm for racing games present in the PS2 era is no longer here.

Please prove me wrong with hard numbers.

Sure, just make sure you  don't disapear in this site once GT5 proves you wrong.

I have been wrong many a time before and have a strong enough ego to come back. Heck, I comment on political blogs where have had my whole posts turned upside down, corrected, and shoved down my throat while the other commentators laugh.That is with my real name attached to the posts.

So no, I will not disappear and I stand by my argument that GT5 will not sell as well as GT4 and other racing games did during the PS2 era and before. If anyone will be proven wrong it will be the GT fans who believe with all their heart and soul that GT5 will push 7 to 10 million in it's first year and sell 5 million PS3s at the same time.

Thats why your skeptical....

No1 claims GT5 to push 5m console WTF even GTA4 with it's hype didn't do that.

No1 also claims GT5 will do 10m in it's first year, MORE like 10m LTD(LIFE TIME SALES) not first year.

I'm skeptical because there are too many posts from GT fans saying how GT5 will be the biggest system seller for Sony since Final Fantasy 7 was for the PlayStation. Gran Turismo 5 will sell nowhere near a quarter of the PS3s as Final Fantasy 7 did for the PlayStation.

Well go to those specific GT fans. There is no reason to bring that up here.



Mummelmann on 31 July 2010
Killiana1a said:
XxXProphecyXxX said:
Killiana1a said:
XxXProphecyXxX said:
Killiana1a said:

Microsoft will win beyond a reasonable doubt with the Halo Reach bundle and Kinect bundle. As for the markets, the usual PS3 dominating Japan and  the 360 dominating the Americas. 

Funny, racing fans keep bringing up the concept of "long legs," what does that mean?

Personally, I think counting the numbers of a game  to make the argument it has "long legs" when it has not sold 3 to 5 million in it's 1st year is pointless and almost every single video game executive would agree with me. You can tell from the first month sales, hell even the first week sales whether a game is going to be a huge seller or not.

Blur was released on May 25, 2010 and has sold less than 1 million copies between the PS3 and 360. Forza Motorsports 3 was released in October 2009 and it looks like it will take another 5 to 10 years for it to reach Forza Motorsports 2 numbers.

In a similar vein, Gran Turismo 4 sold 10 million copies. Do you think the publishers of Gran Turismo 5 are expecting it to match? I would think so, but then again it has been 5 years since GT4 and the market has changed.

Here is my argument: the racing genre is no longer on par in relevance compared to the FPS, RPG (including MMORPG), and Action Adventure genre. Yes, Gran Turismo will always sell and we will see Mario Kart and Need for Speed games, but looking at the racing games of this generation compared to the last, the enthusiasm for racing games present in the PS2 era is no longer here.

Please prove me wrong with hard numbers.

Sure, just make sure you  don't disapear in this site once GT5 proves you wrong.

I have been wrong many a time before and have a strong enough ego to come back. Heck, I comment on political blogs where have had my whole posts turned upside down, corrected, and shoved down my throat while the other commentators laugh.That is with my real name attached to the posts.

So no, I will not disappear and I stand by my argument that GT5 will not sell as well as GT4 and other racing games did during the PS2 era and before. If anyone will be proven wrong it will be the GT fans who believe with all their heart and soul that GT5 will push 7 to 10 million in it's first year and sell 5 million PS3s at the same time.

Thats why your skeptical....

No1 claims GT5 to push 5m console WTF even GTA4 with it's hype didn't do that.

No1 also claims GT5 will do 10m in it's first year, MORE like 10m LTD(LIFE TIME SALES) not first year.

I'm skeptical because there are too many posts from GT fans saying how GT5 will be the biggest system seller for Sony since Final Fantasy 7 was for the PlayStation. Gran Turismo 5 will sell nowhere near a quarter of the PS3s as Final Fantasy 7 did for the PlayStation.


I've been here for three years as a member and been browsing the site since its infancy but I've never once heard even the worst, most deluded people say anything to that effect. Not only are there not "too many posts" stating this, there are in fact none. Not even Crazzyman believed this, this analogy and paralell with FFVII is something brand new from your post.



Killiana1a on 31 July 2010
Mummelmann said:
Killiana1a said:
XxXProphecyXxX said:
Killiana1a said:
XxXProphecyXxX said:
Killiana1a said:

Microsoft will win beyond a reasonable doubt with the Halo Reach bundle and Kinect bundle. As for the markets, the usual PS3 dominating Japan and  the 360 dominating the Americas. 

Funny, racing fans keep bringing up the concept of "long legs," what does that mean?

Personally, I think counting the numbers of a game  to make the argument it has "long legs" when it has not sold 3 to 5 million in it's 1st year is pointless and almost every single video game executive would agree with me. You can tell from the first month sales, hell even the first week sales whether a game is going to be a huge seller or not.

Blur was released on May 25, 2010 and has sold less than 1 million copies between the PS3 and 360. Forza Motorsports 3 was released in October 2009 and it looks like it will take another 5 to 10 years for it to reach Forza Motorsports 2 numbers.

In a similar vein, Gran Turismo 4 sold 10 million copies. Do you think the publishers of Gran Turismo 5 are expecting it to match? I would think so, but then again it has been 5 years since GT4 and the market has changed.

Here is my argument: the racing genre is no longer on par in relevance compared to the FPS, RPG (including MMORPG), and Action Adventure genre. Yes, Gran Turismo will always sell and we will see Mario Kart and Need for Speed games, but looking at the racing games of this generation compared to the last, the enthusiasm for racing games present in the PS2 era is no longer here.

Please prove me wrong with hard numbers.

Sure, just make sure you  don't disapear in this site once GT5 proves you wrong.

I have been wrong many a time before and have a strong enough ego to come back. Heck, I comment on political blogs where have had my whole posts turned upside down, corrected, and shoved down my throat while the other commentators laugh.That is with my real name attached to the posts.

So no, I will not disappear and I stand by my argument that GT5 will not sell as well as GT4 and other racing games did during the PS2 era and before. If anyone will be proven wrong it will be the GT fans who believe with all their heart and soul that GT5 will push 7 to 10 million in it's first year and sell 5 million PS3s at the same time.

Thats why your skeptical....

No1 claims GT5 to push 5m console WTF even GTA4 with it's hype didn't do that.

No1 also claims GT5 will do 10m in it's first year, MORE like 10m LTD(LIFE TIME SALES) not first year.

I'm skeptical because there are too many posts from GT fans saying how GT5 will be the biggest system seller for Sony since Final Fantasy 7 was for the PlayStation. Gran Turismo 5 will sell nowhere near a quarter of the PS3s as Final Fantasy 7 did for the PlayStation.


I've been here for three years as a member and been browsing the site since its infancy but I've never once heard even the worst, most deluded people say anything to that effect. Not only are there not "too many posts" stating this, there are in fact none. Not even Crazzyman believed this, this analogy and paralell with FFVII is something brand new from your post.

I don't aim to make comfortable comments following the conventional wisdom of a mass of commentators. From what I have been browsing here and elsewhere, I have seen posts regarding Gran Turismo 5 as a system seller that will help push the PS3 over the top during the 2010 Christmas season.

I am preempting those posts with my seemingly outlandish argument to the contrary. Gran Turismo 5 will sell well but it will not be a system seller like Final Fantasy 7 or Halo: Reach.



Mummelmann on 31 July 2010

But the analogy was yours and not something spoken in these forums by others, I've seen a lot of people who think GT5 will push hardware but none who have likened it to FFVII, these are two very different arguments.

Your last sentence seems to juxtepose FFVII and Reach as system sellers on equal grounds, I think this is absurd and a lot more far fetched than someone claiming GT5 will move systems. This far into the generation, software does not push tremendous amounts of hardware, why aren't you equally distraught by the people who think that Reach will be a system seller on the same level as Halo 3? Reach is launching in the fifth year of the console, approaching the 360's sixth holiday season and I think it simply naive to assume that Reach will have anywhere near the impact of Final Fantasy VII (which was released only two years after the PS launch, one year after EU launch).

GT5 will move hardware, not huge amounts but still. Neither GT5 nor Reach will be close to FFVII impact. GT 5 Prologue moved a lot of consoles on its own and the GT series is the worlds best selling racing franchise after Mario Kart so one should not be so quick to dismiss the value it may hold as a system seller over time. In the end, Reach will probably move more consoles than GT5, there's no doubt in my mind about that but your arguments suggest to me that the whole premise of your position rests on the fact that you don't want GT5 to be a success, nor a system seller in any respect. By all means, correct me if I'm wrong.



bevochan on 01 August 2010

If FF versus 13 ever comes out (seems this game pushes the PS3 graphic engine and will look better than any other PS3 release), this game will truly be the system seller.