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Forums - Gaming - Female protagonist? What do you think?

 

I don't think anyone would argue against the notion that the video game industry is, unfortunately, dominated by the efforts of chauvinistic proselytes (not necessarily video game developers, but corporate interests). It is very rare to find any commercially produced game with interesting female characters, much less so as protagonists. If the situation is to improve, society's attitude towards women, ultimately, needs to change.

However, even if that was the case, simply avoiding 'offensive' portrayals of women is not much better.

The idea of the strong, silent, non-sexualized woman is itself a clichéd stereotype; not particularly offensive to ostensibly feminist sensibilities, but offering up nothing of value as a portrayal of the 'other' sex. Very often such characters are actually a proto-men - essentially characterized by typified male attributes - and in other cases they are so bland so as they might as well be androgynous.

Of course, there are also unabashedly sexualized and objectified characters; and this is true of both male and female protagonists, with equally repugnant results (though not all of it is bad; pre-eminent examples such as Kratos and Bayonetta are so exaggerated as to be humorous and farcical critiques of their respective stereotypes - though only Bayonetta is self-aware of this fact). However, for the male, this problem is alleviated as what is 'male' has long been seen as the model of the idealized man, and the depiction of men is consequently much broader, subtler and more refined.

As a player (and designer) I do not wish for abstractions of the human essence, however; if a female character is chosen, the female side of the human psyche should be explored.

This, as I mentioned, is rarely done, though Metroid does come to mind as an exception. Sakamoto has been criticized (I think, to some extent, rightly) for eschewing the spirit of the series; however, he is right in pointing out the human and notably female sides of Samus' character. Though people like to think otherwise, we knew something of her at the end of Super Metroid - by my interpretation, she is marked for her professionalism, but is also idealistic and compassionate (quite unusual attributes for a bounty hunter, I should say).

As should be tacitly apparent, I don't have a problem playing as female characters, when done justice, any more than I have playing as a male character. I just find it to be a shame that there are so few psychologically interesting female protagonists.



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It usually doesn't make a difference. I like Metroid, Fire Emblem Radiant Dawn, Super Princess Peach...wow these are tough to come up with for a Nintendo fan.



"Jesus said to him, 'I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.' " ~John 14:6 (NKJV)

Helios said:

 

I don't think anyone would argue against the notion that the video game industry is, unfortunately, dominated by the efforts of chauvinistic proselytes (not necessarily video game developers, but corporate interests). It is very rare to find any commercially produced game with interesting female characters, much less so as protagonists. If the situation is to improve, society's attitude towards women, ultimately, needs to change.

However, even if that was the case, simply avoiding 'offensive' portrayals of women is not much better.

The idea of the strong, silent, non-sexualized woman is itself a clichéd stereotype; not particularly offensive to ostensibly feminist sensibilities, but offering up nothing of value as a portrayal of the 'other' sex. Very often such characters are actually a proto-men - essentially characterized by typified male attributes - and in other cases they are so bland so as they might as well be androgynous.

Of course, there are also unabashedly sexualized and objectified characters; and this is true of both male and female protagonists, with equally repugnant results (though not all of it is bad; pre-eminent examples such as Kratos and Bayonetta are so exaggerated as to be humorous and farcical critiques of their respective stereotypes - though only Bayonetta is self-aware of this fact). However, for the male, this problem is alleviated as what is 'male' has long been seen as the model of the idealized man, and the depiction of men is consequently much broader, subtler and more refined.

As a player (and designer) I do not wish for abstractions of the human essence, however; if a female character is chosen, the female side of the human psyche should be explored.

This, as I mentioned, is rarely done, though Metroid does come to mind as an exception. Sakamoto has been criticized (I think, to some extent, rightly) for eschewing the spirit of the series; however, he is right in pointing out the human and notably female sides of Samus' character. Though people like to think otherwise, we knew something of her at the end of Super Metroid - by my interpretation, she is marked for her professionalism, but is also idealistic and compassionate (quite unusual attributes for a bounty hunter, I should say).

As should be tacitly apparent, I don't have a problem playing as female characters, when done justice, any more than I have playing as a male character. I just find it to be a shame that there are so few psychologically interesting female protagonists.

Mmm, I agree 50%.

I avoid those games, but I don't tell people to do so. You want to know why I avoid those games? Check that out, you'll see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COt0yvziSuc&feature=related

How can a strong, silent, non-sexualized woman can be a stereotype? It's as rare as a 6 legged pig. And about the males atributes, I totally disagree, but I don't want to argue about that.



I_hate_Itagaki said:

Mmm, I agree 50%.

I avoid those games, but I don't tell people to do so. You want to know why I avoid those games? Check that out, you'll see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COt0yvziSuc&feature=related

How can a strong, silent, non-sexualized woman can be a stereotype? It's as rare as a 6 legged pig. And about the males atributes, I totally disagree, but I don't want to argue about that.


"Those" games? Do you mean the God of War ilk?

As for stereotyped gender roles, I'd say they're more common than you think (though characters need not be popular to be stereotyped). Rippley (Alien) is an exellent example of a female protagonist, but she helped pave the way for a kind shallow female warrior (that is just as trite and uninspiring as the male counterpart) that we still see today. If there is nothing 'female' about a character, what's the point of having her be female in the first place?



Helios said:

Of course, there are also unabashedly sexualized and objectified characters; and this is true of both male and female protagonists, with equally repugnant results (though not all of it is bad; pre-eminent examples such as Kratos and Bayonetta are so exaggerated as to be humorous and farcical critiques of their respective stereotypes - though only Bayonetta is self-aware of this fact). However, for the male, this problem is alleviated as what is 'male' has long been seen as the model of the idealized man, and the depiction of men is consequently much broader, subtler and more refined.

It probably does little more than show my background in literary studies (i.e. Making Up Shit that Isn't There), but I actually see Baynetta as being more than a parody of sexual stereotypes. She's actually a legitimately strong, empowered female character who never seeks, receives, or needs validation from any male in the story, and is empowered by her sexuality instead of simply being typified by it. She's interesting to me in that on the one hand she's potentially harmful in that she's easily misunderstood, but on the other hand there is something there to be misunderstood, and the people who misunderstand her actually play into the kind of character she is: people who ogle her doing a pole dance miss the point entirely, which is that she's doing it for herself rather than for the player.

This is especially interesting when you compare her to Father Baldr, the prototypical masculine figure of the game, but that might be for another discussion altogether.



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My Kelly Shepard in ME1 and 2 is the bitchiest redhead girl in the whole galaxy. She is ruthless, she kicks ass and she has the highest amount of renegade gauge you can get. And she is lesbian...

... Just to say that I don't care about the main character being a girl. On the opposite, playing a Heavy testosteronized guy don't interest me either.

To overcome the gender issue, I am more interested with games where the main protagonist has its own personality. I loved when the protagonist is a normal guy/women :  Cursed Mountain, Dead Space, Second Sight, Half Life, Doom (oh yeah, it was the guy left behind in the spaceship with only one gun ^^). 



Jirakon said:

It usually doesn't make a difference. I like Metroid, Fire Emblem Radiant Dawn, Super Princess Peach...wow these are tough to come up with for a Nintendo fan.


I agree, but Fire Emblem Radiant Dawn is not a really good example. It's sexist IMO, plus Ike's the main char(I know, it' not supposed to be him, but he takes soooo much place in the story) , so...



I_hate_Itagaki said:
Jirakon said:

It usually doesn't make a difference. I like Metroid, Fire Emblem Radiant Dawn, Super Princess Peach...wow these are tough to come up with for a Nintendo fan.

I agree, but Fire Emblem Radiant Dawn is not a really good example. It's sexist IMO, plus Ike's the main char(I know, it' not supposed to be him, but he takes soooo mush place in the story) , so...

...How in the Hell is Fire Emblem sexist? Half of the most powerful and important characters are women.



Helios said:
I_hate_Itagaki said:

Mmm, I agree 50%.

I avoid those games, but I don't tell people to do so. You want to know why I avoid those games? Check that out, you'll see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COt0yvziSuc&feature=related

How can a strong, silent, non-sexualized woman can be a stereotype? It's as rare as a 6 legged pig. And about the males atributes, I totally disagree, but I don't want to argue about that.


"Those" games? Do you mean the God of War ilk?

As for stereotyped gender roles, I'd say they're more common than you think (though characters need not be popular to be stereotyped). Rippley (Alien) is an exellent example of a female protagonist, but she helped pave the way for a kind shallow female warrior (that is just as trite and uninspiring as the male counterpart) that we still see today. If there is nothing 'female' about a character, what's the point of having her be female in the first place?

Those games are the 'offensive' portrayals of women you were talking about.

So, what are 'female' characteristics to you?  If we fallows that patern, many characters must be females! Squall is emo, so he must be a girl! I mean, all girls whine and cry! Samus must be a guy, she's running and kiling scary aliens without her frying pan :D



Khuutra said:
I_hate_Itagaki said:
Jirakon said:

It usually doesn't make a difference. I like Metroid, Fire Emblem Radiant Dawn, Super Princess Peach...wow these are tough to come up with for a Nintendo fan.

I agree, but Fire Emblem Radiant Dawn is not a really good example. It's sexist IMO, plus Ike's the main char(I know, it' not supposed to be him, but he takes soooo mush place in the story) , so...

...How in the Hell is Fire Emblem sexist? Half of the most powerful and important characters are women.

First, the way you attack in the GBA games are Sexist. The guys always have more CON, exemple, a myrmidon/male have more CON than his female counterpart. Same thing for any class. If you want to attack twice, the formula is CON SPE - Weapon, so women are just weaker in general. I don't have the source right no but I'm searching for it (I lost the FAQ when I sold the game).

Second, I was talking about Radiant Dawn. You can't be SS in sword mastery if you are a female swordmaster, but if you are a male, well yes you can. I find the story sexist too, but that's my opinion. For the double strike in RD: You must beat the foes ATK SPE by 4 (ATK SPE = str -Equiped weapon weight), and guys always have more STR.

BTW what characters are important exept for Ike?