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Forums - Sony Discussion - Are Sony's 1st Party Studios Leading The Way?

Arius Dion said:
rockeford2010 said:
leatherhat said:
Arius Dion said:
leatherhat said:
Arius Dion said:
axumblade said:
Arius Dion said:

LoL.

Don't troll topics if you don't agree with them. Or at least give reasons other than "lol."

Don't know how this is trolling. And generally, I've seen others post nothing other than "LoL" on many a thread. So don't try and single me out, and I don't need to give any other reason besides LoL. But if you want me to give a reason. Here's 1; Mario Kart has damn near outsold EVERY PS3 exclusive this gen combined. how can any one claim Sony's leading the way when this is the case? 


I believe they're discussing quality here, so sales aren't really a factor.

Lame. as quality is all a matter of perspective. Sales is fact.


No one's trying to say nintendo isn't the most commercially successful, people are just thinking that sony has put out the best games. 


what if other people think that nintendo has the best games?

 

It's all a matter of opinion


Exactly. The author of this 'article' is trying to manipulate the arena and twist things in a box where he can make such a claim, and try and justify it.

The bottom line is, if the majority of people thought Sony had the best first party games, they wouldn't be in the predicament they are in this gen. And their games wouldn't struggle to get to 5m.

If quality is really a factor to achieve higher sell than the rest, then explain Twilight.



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Arius Dion said:
rockeford2010 said:


what if other people think that nintendo has the best games?

 

It's all a matter of opinion


Exactly. The author of this 'article' is trying to manipulate the arena and twist things in a box where he can make such a claim, and try and justify it.

The bottom line is, if the majority of people thought Sony had the best first party games, they wouldn't be in the predicament they are in this gen. And their games wouldn't struggle to get to 5m.

Your argument about Sony not making the best games as evident by them not selling the best only makes sense in a world where the consumer is perfectly informed and gets to try every single game before buying.  Which is a world we don't live in.



...

Hynad said:
Arius Dion said:
rockeford2010 said:
leatherhat said:
Arius Dion said:
leatherhat said:
Arius Dion said:
axumblade said:
Arius Dion said:

LoL.

Don't troll topics if you don't agree with them. Or at least give reasons other than "lol."

Don't know how this is trolling. And generally, I've seen others post nothing other than "LoL" on many a thread. So don't try and single me out, and I don't need to give any other reason besides LoL. But if you want me to give a reason. Here's 1; Mario Kart has damn near outsold EVERY PS3 exclusive this gen combined. how can any one claim Sony's leading the way when this is the case? 


I believe they're discussing quality here, so sales aren't really a factor.

Lame. as quality is all a matter of perspective. Sales is fact.


No one's trying to say nintendo isn't the most commercially successful, people are just thinking that sony has put out the best games. 


what if other people think that nintendo has the best games?

 

It's all a matter of opinion


Exactly. The author of this 'article' is trying to manipulate the arena and twist things in a box where he can make such a claim, and try and justify it.

The bottom line is, if the majority of people thought Sony had the best first party games, they wouldn't be in the predicament they are in this gen. And their games wouldn't struggle to get to 5m.

If quality is really a factor to achieve higher sell than the rest, then explain Twilight.

Never saw it. Inflation?



Bet between Slimbeast and Arius Dion about Wii sales 2009:


If the Wii sells less than 20 million in 2009 (as defined by VGC sales between week ending 3d Jan 2009 to week ending 4th Jan 2010) Slimebeast wins and get to control Arius Dion's sig for 1 month.

If the Wii sells more than 20 million in 2009 (as defined above) Arius Dion wins and gets to control Slimebeast's sig for 1 month.

CGI-Quality said:
dsister said:
CGI-Quality said:

I'm not sure you can distinguish a 1st Party IP from a 1st Party game. If the IP is internal, it's chances of going anywhere are nill. No, not all 1st Party titles are internally developed, but if it belongs to that company, what are you going to call it, a 2nd/3rd Party title?

Halo is Microsoft's, Demon's Souls is Sony's, Metroid is Nintendo's. In Metroid/Halo's cases (since they've been around longer) have you ever heard them considered to be anything else but 1st Party?

Besides the fact that we're off topic and that point is moot anyway, that's the furtherst I'm going with it.


Hynad said it the best.

Hynad said:

Second-party developer

A second party developer is a company that is contracted by a first-party developer to make their games.

And this thread has been off topic since the lousy OP. The man did no reaserch and doesn't know the difference between a first and second party game. Naturally the thread would breakdown into argueing between what is and what isn't first party.

We weren't arguing devs, we argued 1st Party titles. In that sense, what Hynad said, while true, didn't pertain to what we were debating.

but the point was to give credit to Sony for developing great games, and you can't give them credit for titles that they didn't develop.



...

Torillian said:
Arius Dion said:
rockeford2010 said:
 


what if other people think that nintendo has the best games?

 

It's all a matter of opinion


Exactly. The author of this 'article' is trying to manipulate the arena and twist things in a box where he can make such a claim, and try and justify it.

The bottom line is, if the majority of people thought Sony had the best first party games, they wouldn't be in the predicament they are in this gen. And their games wouldn't struggle to get to 5m.

Your argument about Sony not making the best games as evident by them not selling the best only makes sense in a world where the consumer is perfectly informed and gets to try every single game before buying.  Which is a world we don't live in.

It makes sense in this world. People are not as ill informed as has been spread across the web( at least in the case of gaming). The same box used to marginalize gamers i e casual gamers, hardcore gamers, etc. is just an attempt to try to explain why Wii's success is meaningless.

I mean, in that case, I could just say the GC was a better quality system than the PS2, but the ill informed consumer wasn't informed enough to understand that. That's bogus. Consumers like what the like and vote with their wallets. That's always been the case. When the PS1 was king, I remember Nintendo spouting "quality over quantity" when Wii is king, I hear sony spouting "quality over quantity'.  



Bet between Slimbeast and Arius Dion about Wii sales 2009:


If the Wii sells less than 20 million in 2009 (as defined by VGC sales between week ending 3d Jan 2009 to week ending 4th Jan 2010) Slimebeast wins and get to control Arius Dion's sig for 1 month.

If the Wii sells more than 20 million in 2009 (as defined above) Arius Dion wins and gets to control Slimebeast's sig for 1 month.

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Hynad said:
Arius Dion said:
rockeford2010 said:
leatherhat said:
Arius Dion said:
leatherhat said:
Arius Dion said:
axumblade said:
Arius Dion said:

LoL.

Don't troll topics if you don't agree with them. Or at least give reasons other than "lol."

Don't know how this is trolling. And generally, I've seen others post nothing other than "LoL" on many a thread. So don't try and single me out, and I don't need to give any other reason besides LoL. But if you want me to give a reason. Here's 1; Mario Kart has damn near outsold EVERY PS3 exclusive this gen combined. how can any one claim Sony's leading the way when this is the case? 


I believe they're discussing quality here, so sales aren't really a factor.

Lame. as quality is all a matter of perspective. Sales is fact.


No one's trying to say nintendo isn't the most commercially successful, people are just thinking that sony has put out the best games. 


what if other people think that nintendo has the best games?

 

It's all a matter of opinion


Exactly. The author of this 'article' is trying to manipulate the arena and twist things in a box where he can make such a claim, and try and justify it.

The bottom line is, if the majority of people thought Sony had the best first party games, they wouldn't be in the predicament they are in this gen. And their games wouldn't struggle to get to 5m.

If quality is really a factor to achieve higher sell than the rest, then explain Twilight.

Well, a lot of people find it great. Case closed.

I agree? Nope. But like people said, it's subjective.



i'm annoyed by the quality argument.

please tell me what is not quality about nintendo games?

i can't think of any bugs, glitches, bad gameplay, camara issues, ect. for their games.  Why is mario kart not a quality game?  What makes these sony games mores quality than twilight princess, mario galaxy 1 & 2, metroid prime series, mario kart, new mario, ect.

What is wrong with them, why are they not quality games?  Or so you don't respond with they are quality games, just not as high quality as sony, what makes Sony's games HIGHER Quality than those? 

Or are we basing quality purely on your own personal preferences?  Or is mario kart actually just as high quality or more than killzone 2, but you just like shooters more than racers?



CGI-Quality said:
dsister said:
CGI-Quality said:

I'm not sure you can distinguish a 1st Party IP from a 1st Party game. If the IP is internal, it's chances of going anywhere are nill. No, not all 1st Party titles are internally developed, but if it belongs to that company, what are you going to call it, a 2nd/3rd Party title?

Halo is Microsoft's, Demon's Souls is Sony's, Metroid is Nintendo's. In Metroid/Halo's cases (since they've been around longer) have you ever heard them considered to be anything else but 1st Party?

Besides the fact that we're off topic and that point is moot anyway, that's the furtherst I'm going with it.


Hynad said it the best.

Hynad said:

Second-party developer

A second party developer is a company that is contracted by a first-party developer to make their games.

And this thread has been off topic since the lousy OP. The man did no reaserch and doesn't know the difference between a first and second party game. Naturally the thread would breakdown into argueing between what is and what isn't first party.

We weren't arguing devs, we argued 1st Party titles. In that sense, what Hynad said, while true, didn't pertain to what we were debating.

No, you weren't but you and some others seemed to be confused about what is a first, second and third party game.

I see where you are coming from though.  When it comes to second party games, it becomes difficult to draw the line since even if Sony isn't developing the game per se, they still have their say in just about every aspect of the production.  If something doesn't meet their vision, or quality standards, then the second party has to work on the different aspects that are being pointed out until it reaches Sony's wanted quality level.

Making the whole thing pretty much the same, in the end, as any other first party game. 

But if Insomniac is anything to go by, it seems like Sony is giving a crapload of liberty to their second parties...



andremop said:
Hynad said:
Arius Dion said:
rockeford2010 said:
leatherhat said:
Arius Dion said:
leatherhat said:
Arius Dion said:
axumblade said:
Arius Dion said:

LoL.

Don't troll topics if you don't agree with them. Or at least give reasons other than "lol."

Don't know how this is trolling. And generally, I've seen others post nothing other than "LoL" on many a thread. So don't try and single me out, and I don't need to give any other reason besides LoL. But if you want me to give a reason. Here's 1; Mario Kart has damn near outsold EVERY PS3 exclusive this gen combined. how can any one claim Sony's leading the way when this is the case? 


I believe they're discussing quality here, so sales aren't really a factor.

Lame. as quality is all a matter of perspective. Sales is fact.


No one's trying to say nintendo isn't the most commercially successful, people are just thinking that sony has put out the best games. 


what if other people think that nintendo has the best games?

 

It's all a matter of opinion


Exactly. The author of this 'article' is trying to manipulate the arena and twist things in a box where he can make such a claim, and try and justify it.

The bottom line is, if the majority of people thought Sony had the best first party games, they wouldn't be in the predicament they are in this gen. And their games wouldn't struggle to get to 5m.

If quality is really a factor to achieve higher sell than the rest, then explain Twilight.

Well, a lot of people find it great. Case closed.

I agree? Nope. But like people said, it's subjective.


This



axumblade said:
Arius Dion said:
Hynad said:

If quality is really a factor to achieve higher sell than the rest, then explain Twilight.

Never saw it. Inflation?

Inflation? So you're saying your favorite movie of all time is Gone With The Wind. Excellent choice. :D


LoL ; )



Bet between Slimbeast and Arius Dion about Wii sales 2009:


If the Wii sells less than 20 million in 2009 (as defined by VGC sales between week ending 3d Jan 2009 to week ending 4th Jan 2010) Slimebeast wins and get to control Arius Dion's sig for 1 month.

If the Wii sells more than 20 million in 2009 (as defined above) Arius Dion wins and gets to control Slimebeast's sig for 1 month.