Well, as a venezuelan I will tell you my view about chavez, chavez has done a lot of good things like rising and keeping the oil price at high record breaking levels, plus, they are now earning a lot of money from taxes, the nationalation of a lot of privates companies. The bad part is there are a lot of killing, the hospitals are on ruins(my father is a doctor, I'm very well informed about the hospitals status), you can't buy dollars freely, there is almost a civil war between chavez supporters and the opposition. About the cubans doctors, they earn 4 times the salary of a national doctor and they are mostly bad doctors. But for the most part people don't like chavez because he talks like a non-stop machine, he insult people, he is just a very violent person.

I mean, just look at the Governor of my state:

Sorry if it didn't make that much sense but I'm half-asleep. They are about to release the offcial results.

First round of numbers with about 88% of total votes:

1 Proposed block:

Agreed: 49.3%
Don't agree: 50.7%

2 Proposed block:

Agreed: 49%
Dont agreed: 51%

So far the constitutional reform have been declined.

I'm happy :D

In a democracy, one doesn't become dictator just by being ruthless. One usurps power a little at a time, often by buying the favor of the people. It worked for Caesar, and appears to be working for Putin and Chavez.

And if you don't know how effective these programs are (launching PR programs is very easy - we do it all the time), how can you possibly claim that millions more have been exposed to education, medical care etc than would have otherwise (not to mention that claim is doubly baseless unless you know what the alternatives to Chavez would have done).

Russia before Putin: a burnt-out train wreck of a society, multiple civil wars, crashing economy, oligarchs stealing everything in sight, per capita GDP sinks to $1500, Yeltsin steals election in 1996, noone gives a damn.

Russia after Putin: revitalized society, peace and stability return, economy booms, oligarchs jailed or forced to turn legit, per capita GDP skyrockets to $7000, Putin's party wins reasonably fair and open elections.

Venezuela before Chavez: burnt-out train wreck of a society, unbelievable gap between rich and poor, tiny English-speaking elites live like kings, vast majority live worse than pigs, 50% of country in poverty.

Venezuela after Chavez: revitalized society, economy grows fast, civil society expands, poverty rate drops to 30%.

The demonization of Putin and Chavez is a project of very powerful, very devious and very evil American power-elites who don't give a flying %^&* about democracy or human rights and never will.

I'd like to thank Shido and lightbleeder for giving a reasoned view of Venezuelan politics from within. It can be hard to know what to think about Chavez when various organizations abroad are spinning the facts, and the actual results of his policies can be hard to understand from overseas. It's nice to get some information from the ground that doesn't have a particular angle.

My personal view of Chavez is that he's bombastic, foolish and reckless, but I do think that he believes he's doing what's best for Venezuela, which is more than I can say for some of his predecessors.

By the way, lightbleeder, there are quite a few democracies that don't impose term limits on their leaders. Term limits aren't really more democratic, they simply force a certain amount of change in the system, whether people want it or not.

As I said economically chavez has done a great job, awsome I must say, but social wise the things have become worse, roads are sh*t, private clinics have collapsed because hospitals are in ruinsm, there is a lot of hate between chavez supporters and the opposition. May I ask you source for poverty levels?, I'm going to sleep. I will check this thread tomorrow. Good night everybody.

Putin and Chavez are not the same. Putin has increased economic freedom and lowered social freedom in Russia. Chavez has greatly reduced economic freedom and reduced social freedom in Venezuela.

They are not taking the countries in completely opposite directions, but very different ones. Chavez wants Venezuela to become the next great socialist (failed) state whereas Putin realized that socialism is a terrible system and is moving away from it.

But yes, anyone that wants to reduce social freedom (The leaders of US, CA, Venezuela, Cuba, Russia, Iran) will be viewed poorly by many in the US.

SlorgNet said:

"Venezuela after Chavez: revitalized society, economy grows fast, civil society expands, poverty rate drops to 30%."

Economy grows fast but just because of the high oil price, Venezuela does not have other important companies, just the oil one, and the government does not attract private investment so there are no jobs! Poverty rate hasn't dropped to 30%,  it's just that Chavez subside some families wich is an act that I support, but he gives them no way out of their dependency on him. Unemployment rate is very high but the government doesn't recognize it because they count the informal sector (people sellign stuff in the street without paying taxes) in the unemployment charts (I believe no other government in the world does that).

If oil price drops a lot it'll hurt Chavez so much I believe he wouldn't be able to sustain his government and there would be rage on the streets of Venezuela, but when you have an oil price that high he will still count on the people's support!

The man is a dictator Stof. He may not yet be ruthless, but he is certainly a dictator, authoritarian to the bone. Regardless of what you may think of his social bribes, he is shutting down opposing media (print form and television) and attempting to remove review processes through legislation and constitutional changes. By definition these elections were not democratic, whether he wins or loses, as he suppressed the media heavily wherever it opposed him.

He uses the same anti-Western populist crap adopted by Vladamir Putin and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. They simply tell their population's that the USA is responsible for all their troubles, throw oil money at the masses with no respect for the severe long-term economic impact of such policies (inflation and interest rates), and suppress the media and opposition groups to hide this sad truth.

I tend to find the same people that support Chavez and his political likenesses in other countries in their efforts to gain strong control over their populations through the violation of democratic rights, startlingly oppose George W. Bush's Patriot Act. As someone who opposes both the Patriot Act AND the policies of these authoritarian leaders, I can tell you that their human-rights abuses dwarf those of ANY US politician. Exactly what long-term political, social and economic price do you think the poor of these countries would accept for short-term oil-based relief, if they were permitted by their governments to know all the facts, and had access to all the information we do?

Sorry to tell you mate, but Chavez has NOTHING to do with the oil price going up.  Thatis based entirely on mideast strife and high demand in the Chinese and American markets.  Chavez has no control over oil-price.

As for the nationalising of private companies, Chavez has made Venezuela a capitalist's nightmare (intentionally), however this will be devastating for the nation long-term if he isn't removed soon.  There are many surviving socialist/communist political nations, but there is not a single prosperous nation on the planet that has a socialist ECONOMY!!! For those of you that will jump at that, China has a capitalist economy and a communist political environment, and Cuba is not exactly prosperous. 

This man is using oil-prices to create the illusion of proficient economic management through mass-spending, but if the oil-price drops the country's economy has no method of bailing itself out of catastrophy.