Ok, off-topic but did rol just replace his own previous post with "blablabla" ?

God that gave me a good laugh.

Careful about this kind of thinking. Remember the vast majority of people never finish the game, and at least one capable gamer (dtewi) stopped playing Ocarina of Time because he got stuck and couldn't continue.

Rol, you are a super skill kind of player. It's a fact of the amount of games that you play. I could throw you into a Ninja Gaiden game and two hours later I would expct you to come out the other side covered in gore and viscera, none of it your own.

I undrstand the need for challenge in Zelda, I do - if the Ganondorf battles in Twilight Princess had been harder I would have been much more satisfied with the game - but I worry that some players lack perspective on what appropriate levels of challenge in combat consist of. There are sections of Twilight Princess (like fighting two Darknuts at once) that are harder than anything in other 3D Zeldas.

I mean, at the core, I agree with you, I want 3D Zelda to be hardr than it's become. But I also want it to be an accessible level of difficulty. If it has to be the kind of thing that would challenge a player like you or me, it would need to come late in tthe game (equivalent to Misery Mire in Link to the Past).

Out of curiousity, did he get stuck because he kept getting killed by enemies, or because he couldn't wrap his head around a puzzle?  Because the number one reason I've heard for people not beating Ocarina is summed up in two words:  Water Temple.

I think what makes a great zelda experience for me is that they will always give you a "what the heck do i use this for" weapon (the deku leaf in Wind waker, the top in TP, the sand wand in Spirit tracks) and they make a dungeon that makes you use that tool and you realize how awesome that weapon is.

just going to bring up interviews from e3 from miyamotto and them talking about mario quick

we have 2d mario, 3d mario and 3DS mario, and a simple task ahead of us.  Jump and hit the block to get a mushroom, or land on the same said block from above.

2D: easy as heck, basically anyone who can pick up a nes controller can hit a block

3D: can be super hard and miss countless times and have to rejump, judge, ect.  I dont' know how dumb i have felt in past not able to hit a block just sitting there in open.  And landing takes quite the skill and getting used to.

3DS: now with depth it is said to be insanely easy and back to old 2D style.

Same has been said about like pilot wings or star fox, how in 3DS it is insanely easy now to go through the rings.

Best example since same game is star fox, now did they dumb down starfox?  No, it is just easier to do something not because its easier task in itself, but because we can percieve it better.  think of deku shrubs in zelda shooting nuts at you.  Take a room in 2d with 4 of them in it, and a room in 3d with 4 of them in it.  I could dodge all day in the 3d room and not be stressed at all, in the 2d version i would be struggling. 

Some things that are hard in 2D are easy in 3D, and vise versa.

I grant freely that it was the Water Temple.

Though in my last playthrough of the game, first one in about six years, the hardest part of the game for me was actually fighting Dark Link. Still don't know what was up with that.

Not just the temple... but fighting Shadow Link in this game can be tricky too.

But yes, its the only hard fight of them all

That's because Dark Link has always been a pure cheese boss and the only way to beat him, in either game, was to pure cheese him right back.

And yes, I'm turning "pure cheese" into a verb now.

Well I kind of expect him to be in Skyward Sword. And I fully expect that fight to be totally awesome now.

But I don't think hard games are the answer... I'm playing that DS game Rhythm Heaven and FUCK! I just can't advance in it, no matter how hard I try. I'm just going to give up on the game.

If this happens to me on a Zelda title I would be pissed!