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Forums - General Discussion - Common misconceptions about Christianity.

richardhutnik said:
novasonic said:

Here's another commen misconception. God is real. Your parents remembered to tell you that Santa Claus isn't real, so why not god? This is a videogame forum, not a religion one. Take your views elseware. They offend me.

It would be awesome if someone didn't start a thread on here saying that they thought Creationists were misinformed... at least.  And then that snowballed.  When you do stuff in off-topic forums like this, then you get that.

You do ask a good question.  Why is God different than Santa Claus?  What compels the human brain to consider a God entity, but abandons Santa Claus.  You have the next few years to do research into neurotheology to get answers to that.  You may find some interesting things.  I would suggest starting with the book "How God Changes Your Brain".

I looked up that book, but it looks like something that considers religion as a reasonable thing. I can't even begin to imagine what screws must be lose in someone's head to have any belief in a higher power at all. It's nothing more than stories and fear mongering to me.




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Last edited by garvey0 - on 05 August 2022

If you people have read the bible and are still Christians you are either criminally  insane, completely ignorant or just don't give a f**k. I don't care if god is real or not, if Jesus existed or not, anyone who not only accepts, but upholds as absolute truth and morality what is written in the old testament has a  screw lose in one way or another. Also Jesus specifically said that every word in the OT must upheld, so none of that "it doesn't count" bullshit, as if going against the word of the god of your own religion wasn't enough.

 

Here's your OT god.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOfjkl-3SNE&feature=channel

http://www.youtube.com/user/NonStampCollector#p/u/12/Pt66kbYmXXk

And here's your NT one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mLOUWl-L-s&feature=channel

For better or for worse neither of them have anything to do with what ever belief you have.



garvey0 said:
ManusJustus said:
Stefan.De.Machtige said:
lightbleeder said:

Religion aparts us instead of bringing us together


No, human nature  - the need for tribal identity - does that. All religions are about social unity. People use it to their own needs, desires and faults, like they do anything else.

Not true.  In fact, the Abrahamic religions are tribal and do not guide us toward social unity.

Western religions (think Greeks and Romans) are more socially advanced religions than tribal Judaism, Christianity and Islam.  The Western Empires developed tolerant religious ideals to make empire building and the inclusion of many different religious groups easier.  Thus, Roman gods and the gods of other people's in their empire coexisted, and the Romans were receptive of other religions just as they expected others to be of theirs.  Interestingly, Pontius Pilate remarked that the 'conquered make rules for the conquerers' when Romans in Palestine observed the Sabbath and other Jewish laws while the Jews made no accomodations for Roman religion.

The tribal religions are not about social unity, they are primarily concerned with the their own ethnic tribe.  Judaism is the most obvious example, but the same idea carries through to Christianity and Islam.  Jesus even initially insulted a woman and refused to heal her child because she was not a Jew, but a neighboring Cannonite (and thats after revisions from Paul who made the religion open to outsiders).  Past the ethnic issues themselves, the tribal Abrahamic religions are not tolerant of other people's religions.  Not only do they regard them as completely false, but throughout history they have forced other people to convert to their religion..

First off I'd like to say that I admire the fact that you are speaking based on knowledge rather than based on emotion as many people do when arguing these sorts of things.  That being said, I have some disagreements that I'd like to address...

If the greeks and romans were so tolerant, then why is it that for 300 years both their private citizens and political leaders were arresting, giving the death penalty to, and even barbarically murdering Christians for no other reason than religious disagreements.


Any leader needs legitimacy, and the roman emperor's legitimacy steamed from the fact that he was of divien origin. Christians, by stating that only their God was of divine origin, were basically challenging the emperor's legitimacy. There's a reason why only the chrisitans were persecuted and not other religions.

Plus it's not as if the christians were themselves any better. The only reason chrisitanity became the  dominant religion in the empire was because an emperor made it the official religion, and then all those who refused to convert were tortured and killed by christians.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

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Last edited by garvey0 - on 05 August 2022

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good thread, seems like it's only valid to talk about religion and beliefs on a gaming forum when it's an atheist thread bashing christianism or any other belief.

it's funny how many times in gaming forums i've seen, out of nowhere, someone start threads about how christians are this and that. i dont see how it would be wrong for a christian to try to dismistify that. i apreciate you tried, i did not since i already expected it to "fall on dead ears" and misinterpreted as some way to promote our beliefs when they just expect us to take all the insults that are thrown at us.

i really apreciate your bravado for posting this very explanatory thread, seriously.



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Last edited by garvey0 - on 05 August 2022

garvey0 said:
sapphi_snake said:
garvey0 said:
ManusJustus said:
Stefan.De.Machtige said:
lightbleeder said:

Religion aparts us instead of bringing us together


No, human nature  - the need for tribal identity - does that. All religions are about social unity. People use it to their own needs, desires and faults, like they do anything else.

Not true.  In fact, the Abrahamic religions are tribal and do not guide us toward social unity.

Western religions (think Greeks and Romans) are more socially advanced religions than tribal Judaism, Christianity and Islam.  The Western Empires developed tolerant religious ideals to make empire building and the inclusion of many different religious groups easier.  Thus, Roman gods and the gods of other people's in their empire coexisted, and the Romans were receptive of other religions just as they expected others to be of theirs.  Interestingly, Pontius Pilate remarked that the 'conquered make rules for the conquerers' when Romans in Palestine observed the Sabbath and other Jewish laws while the Jews made no accomodations for Roman religion.

The tribal religions are not about social unity, they are primarily concerned with the their own ethnic tribe.  Judaism is the most obvious example, but the same idea carries through to Christianity and Islam.  Jesus even initially insulted a woman and refused to heal her child because she was not a Jew, but a neighboring Cannonite (and thats after revisions from Paul who made the religion open to outsiders).  Past the ethnic issues themselves, the tribal Abrahamic religions are not tolerant of other people's religions.  Not only do they regard them as completely false, but throughout history they have forced other people to convert to their religion..

First off I'd like to say that I admire the fact that you are speaking based on knowledge rather than based on emotion as many people do when arguing these sorts of things.  That being said, I have some disagreements that I'd like to address...

If the greeks and romans were so tolerant, then why is it that for 300 years both their private citizens and political leaders were arresting, giving the death penalty to, and even barbarically murdering Christians for no other reason than religious disagreements.

 


Any leader needs legitimacy, and the roman emperor's legitimacy steamed from the fact that he was of divien origin. Christians, by stating that only their God was of divine origin, were basically challenging the emperor's legitimacy. There's a reason why only the chrisitans were persecuted and not other religions.

Plus it's not as if the christians were themselves any better. The only reason chrisitanity became the  dominant religion in the empire was because an emperor made it the official religion, and then all those who refused to convert were tortured and killed by christians.

Ah, you do know your history!!  

You make valid points and speak truth.

Regarding your first point.  I do understand that the emperors did have that particular reasoning, however I don't consider it to be a justification.  They were lying to the people by claiming to be divine and nobody should have been worshipping them in the first place.  Just because the Christians refused to believe their lie does not justify murdering them.

Also it wasn't only the emperors who were killing them, but run of the mill citizens would launch there own attacks against the Christians that were motivated by nothing more than ignorance, bigotry, and unfounded fear.  Some of the attacks were based on the fact that the Christians "drank the blood of Christ" and so the people considered them to be cannibals and wanted to kill them because of that.

As far as constantine and his incorporation of Christianity into the government, to my shame I don't know a whole lot about the cultural shift that took place after this.  However, I do agree that when the government is allowed to use the church as a mouthpiece things tend to go downhill fast.  I know that many people have been killed in the name of Christianity as a result of this (many many many who were killed were Christians themselves who were trying to promote true Biblical Christianity i'd like to note in fairness.) 


It wasn't really the Government using the Church, but rather the Curch using the Government. You could actually say that up until the rise of securalism the Government and the Church worked hand in hand, the Church having more power however.

As for the things you said about people killing christians out of "ignorance, bigotry and unfounded fear", well christians did pretty much the same. Pagans that refused to convert to Christianity were tortured and murdered, and accused of things like human sacrifices and cannibalism. Today this is known as a PR tactic called "demonising the opposition", where false generalisations are used to tarnish the image of an opponent, thus creating justification for all kinds of gruesome acts. Examples: "the great jewish consipracy" used by the Nazis, or the so-called "homosexual agenda" used by right-wing groups in the USA.



"I don't understand how someone could like Tolstoy and Dostoyevsky, but not like Twilight!!!"

"Last book I read was Brokeback Mountain, I just don't have the patience for them unless it's softcore porn."

                                                                               (The Voice of a Generation and Seece)

"If you cant stand the sound of your own voice than dont become a singer !!!!!"

                                                                               (pizzahut451)

garvey0 said:
 

I'm glad that your willing to actually debate the scriptures themselves it makes for a more smooth debate.  These actually are points that I was confused about at one time before I began to become more familiar with the scriptures.

Jesus said that the law would not pass away until it had been fulfilled, and so then it was fulfilled when he was sacrificed.

Jesus also gives us a glimpse into why some of the old testament laws were given when he explains that moses had allowed the people to be able to get divorced because their hearts were hardened, but that is not the way God originally intended it.

Also, there are even some old testament references that indicate that the old testament laws were to be temporary.

Isaiah 28:

11Very well then, with foreign lips and strange tongues

God will speak to this people,

12to whom he said,

“This is the resting place, let the weary rest”;

and, “This is the place of repose”—

but they would not listen.

13So then, the word of the LORD to them will become:

Do and do, do and do,

rule on rule, rule on rule;

a little here, a little there—

This seems to imply that God initially began with a more gentle rule, but gave the laws in response to the behavior of the people.
Jeremiah 31:

31 “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will makea new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah,
32 not like the covenant that I made with their fathers on the day whenI took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, my covenant that they broke,
This is very self explanatory that God planned on making a covenant that was not like the one He made "with their fathers on the day whenI took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt."
One more somewhat unrelated note having to do with someone's earlier concern regarding the ability to become a Christian by simply "believing."  First, I want to say that the sort of belief is not only a belief in the validity of Christ but also a believing faith that He will come through on your behalf personally.  Just as your faith in particular developers impact your game purchasing choices, your faith in Christ can impact your every day life choices.  On top of this, you receive the Holy Spirit to assist you in these choices.

Well everything that's bad from Christianity comes from the old testament, and most people who make this world a living hell for others do it in the name of the OT, people just pick and choose what they like. Also, god according to you is not all knowing as all Christians say, and it's one thing to change your laws to new circumstances, it's another to make up absurd laws  and commit genocidal actions, especially when this god of yours is omnipotent. Every situation in the bible where god acted denotes a weak, jelous , fearful and tyrannical god, even a 5 year old can come up with better solutions to every problem in the bible in the context of omnipotence, not to mention omniscience.

Simple fact of the matter is the God of the bible is as bad and as human as any other god in that time and space, in fact he makes the Greek gods seem docile in comparison. Thank god there is no god.



c03n3nj0 said:
ManusJustus said:
calvinandhobbes said:
ManusJustus said:
thanny said:

The other thing is that many people condemn christianity and christians for the laws of the old testament. By this i mean the arguement of 'You can't believe in some of the bible and not all of it'.

The old testament is the law before Jesus Christ.

God cannot be near sin. This means that for a person to be with God they must be completely without sin. This is why the old testament has many laws or whatever about animal sacrifice. The sacrifice pays for the sins, and thus the individual can be in the presence of God. Jesus Christ dying on the cross was a sacrifice for the sins of everyone, making these laws obsolete.

In the Old Testament, God told the Israelites to rape and kill children after they conquered their city.  Not quite the 'God cannot be near sin' idea that you state.

source?

Bible

If you are going to believe something, you should be familiar with it.  Here's a nice quote from God...

Thus says the LORD, 'Behold, I will raise up evil against you from your own household; I will even take your wives before your eyes and give them to your neighbor, and he will lie with your wives in broad daylight.

2 Samuel 12:11

Whoa, way to take things out of context there, buddy. First of all, that has nothing to do with what you said. Nothing. It doesn't even have to do with conquering anything, or raping any little girls. 

In the chapter of 2 Samuel, God is punishing King David for being sinful. 

Here's part of the bigger quote: 

"Why, then, have you disobeyed my command? You had Uriah killed in battle; you let the Ammonites kill him, and then took his wife! Now, in every generation some of your descendants will die a violent death because you have disobeyed me and have taken Uriah's wife. I swear to you that I will cause someone from your family to bring trouble on you. You will see it when I take your wives from you and give them to another man; and he will have intercourse with them in broad daylighht." - 2 Samuel 12: 9-11

I just literally put a bible on my lap and wrote from it. 

Please, before you try to discuss something and say they don't know anything, do your homework first. 

Edit for spelling mistakes. 

That wasn't the verse I initially mentioned, notice how I said, "here is a nice quote from God."  My bad in thinking that I wouldn't have to help people find things in the Bible that they believe in.

Judges 21 is the initial verse that you are looking for.

And good job of justifying having a woman raped in broad day light.