christians are the "real jews" .   if jesus is the jewish messiah then any followers of him would be the "true" jewish people.

Reading through this thread just proves the opening post... it seems a lot of you have an awful understanding as to what Christianity is (not that it is necessarily your fault, don't get me wrong)... some of you just have no room to go around criticizing and commenting on it as it for one makes you look stupid and it as well causes others to have less of an understanding of the reality.  Don't take my post the wrong way though, I'm not saying your beliefs are wrong, but your understanding of mine is flawed.

My beliefs pretty much fall in line with what was stated in the opening post (I'm non-denominational by the way).  I go by the Bible, and nothing else.  Personally, I'm pretty much tolerant of most forms of Christianity (while many of them have traditions that are totally unnecessary), except Catholicism...  Although there are many other forms of religion that claim to be a part of Christianity, which simply aren't and they are way beyond reason.

I will admit, Christianity is a mess of different and conflicting beliefs... most of which, when you get down to it, aren't very large differences.  It's when you start bogging things down with "having" to do good deeds and not having a personal relationship with Jesus that you detract from Christianity and become something else.  Like I said, if it wasn't put in the bible, it isn't important.  God himself made sure that everything needed would be in the bible.  Sure translations differ (King James version.... ahahahahaha)... but any good pastor looks at the texts in several translations as well as its traditional language.

As for us, humans are sinful and they don't deserve to go to Heaven, which is why they need to believe that Jesus is their savior, because only he is the way to Heaven.  No good deeds can get you there, since no person is good enough to make it... so while it may not seem fair, it is the reality.

As a side note (regarding a previous post I don't want to go about quoting), God never said to rape children, but he did say to kill all the people in the land he had given to the Israelites, because they were sinful people.  God almost killed off the Israelites with his wrath on several occasions because they were awful people too.

Although, all that I've stated are little tid-bits of Christianity, and while there is a chance that someone out there will prod me with an attacking question or statement, if you want to have your questions answered, why not ask a professional (pastor, professor, ect.)?  They are better suited to answer your questions than I ever would be.

Don't take my post the wrong way of course.  Sure, I'm a little upset at the lack of understanding of Christianity in general (and I'm not talking about my personal beliefs), but I'm not trying to attack anyone.  My job is to spread what I believe to be the truth, in an appropriate manner, in hopes that someone will listen.  If no one does, it isn't my problem.  If anything, you will have more knowledge to speak on Christianity in the future, which was my ultimate goal.

I'm glad I came across this thread... it isn't uncommon to see posts that in ways attack religion in general throughout the forums (Christianity gets a lot of needless hate), and this is an issue that needed discussing.  I almost made a post on it myself in the past.  Sure, this is a gaming forum, but an issue is an issue.

Gosh... this is all pretty heavy stuff... I should end my post on a lighter note... Dragon Quest IX in two and a half weeks!

Bible

If you are going to believe something, you should be familiar with it.  Here's a nice quote from God...

Thus says the LORD, 'Behold, I will raise up evil against you from your own household; I will even take your wives before your eyes and give them to your neighbor, and he will lie with your wives in broad daylight.

2 Samuel 12:11

Whoa, way to take things out of context there, buddy. First of all, that has nothing to do with what you said. Nothing. It doesn't even have to do with conquering anything, or raping any little girls. 

In the chapter of 2 Samuel, God is punishing King David for being sinful. 

Here's part of the bigger quote: 

"Why, then, have you disobeyed my command? You had Uriah killed in battle; you let the Ammonites kill him, and then took his wife! Now, in every generation some of your descendants will die a violent death because you have disobeyed me and have taken Uriah's wife. I swear to you that I will cause someone from your family to bring trouble on you. You will see it when I take your wives from you and give them to another man; and he will have intercourse with them in broad daylighht." - 2 Samuel 12: 9-11

I just literally put a bible on my lap and wrote from it. 

Please, before you try to discuss something and say they don't know anything, do your homework first. 

Edit for spelling mistakes. 

But wasn't the quran only verbally known before it was written down. In which case I'm pretty sure that many things weren't remembered completely accurately due to the nature of human error. It may not have changed since then, but since Islam in many ways is based on the other two abrahamic faiths and their texts, and since both texts have been discredited then its pretty logical to say that it makes the quran suspect aswell by nature of its relationship with the two older faiths and its original verbal heritage.

But I may have it all wrong and if so, please tell me, I'm not hugely knowledgable about Islam. Thankfully since I'm not religious I don't have to contend with the genreally altereted and changed texts that are present in modern religions.

thanny, I think you are running a Protestant filter on what you think people believe the Christian faith is about, and your understanding of it. I personally was raised Catholic, became Agonstic, wandered through Protestantism, and ended up in the Eastern Orthodox Christian faith.  I understand, based upon studies of my own, the history of Christian theological development and how things went the way they are.  I understand how Western Christian theology developed, and how Augustine, Anstelm and others shaped western theology.  I understand how Western Christianity took a VERY legal view of salvation, and how it got transformed into a legal pardon, rather than something tangible in this life.  It is this spin that causes people to believe what they will about it, and believe Christians are a bunch of crooks who are just doing things to get to heaven when they die.

Several things here:

1. Protestant theology comes out of a reaction to the Roman Catholic theological system that ended up making the Christian faith one of legality, and complex theological development.  Catholic theology tried to form to end up balancing free will with the sovereignty of God.  And then you had reaction to the excesses that led to the Reformation and people feeling that the burden of the complex system was too much and people like Luther not finding peace in it.  The indulgences system weight heavily on this.

2. The Reformation ended up producing a theological system that rested HEAVILY on the sovereignty of God, to the extend that people believe God directly picked everyone from the start, and sent others to Hell (Hell being set up, because Salvation and judgment are about punishing for sin, and Hell needs to be nasty to make up for how sinners offend the honor of God).   And in this is peace, and TULIP and trusting in the grace of God, because no one can do anything without God doing it through them.  It was a full grabbing of Augustine here, and total depravity, with a mix of Anselm, because on had to believe Christ dying on the Cross was meant to PAY for people's sins to make up for the offending of God's honor, which makes God VERY angry.  They end up, under Calvin and others, taking the Bible and turning Christian theology that breaks things down into a lot of parts, and orders salvation into specific parts: Justification (God fixes your records, and pardons you), Santification (God separates you from the world over time, and transforms your nature through Christ) and Glorification (happens after you die and are with God, and you reflect His holy nature).

3. Then you have the camp opposed to Reformed theology that wanted man to have some free will and be able to pick whether to serve God or not, and not totally depraved.  This side then became the Evangelical side, which is post-Reformed theology, and has people believe you can persuade people to believe, and all they have to do is believe in Jesus and they get it.  Belief here is a mental affirmation of certain information about Jesus being true.  In some, this will get you a ticket to heaven when you die (God apparently likes giving pop quizzes people answer).  In this camp is the mainline evangelical, for whom it is the next life, and also the "Born Again" camp that wants people to be "Born Again" (santification happens quicker here) who is all about people having a personal one-on-one relationship with Jesus (not sure where the other person for the two or three in the name of Jesus gathering is though).  And then there is Penticostal and Charismatic, who are all about physical manifestations of signs and wonders and speaking in tonges.

4. The world looks at this, non-Christians, and wonder what the heck this is about, and they don't even get it.  Some do think there is some sort of ledger, but others don't.  For some, they just want a better life here, and hope God has enough mercy in the next life, and they hope that God will see they have good intentions.

My take on the Christian faith?  There is traditions passed down that make things work.  They are there to help understand scripture right.  People are called to follow Jesus and be students of Him.  The call is to love others, and this is how you love Jesus.  This love produces works, and actually helps people.  And grace is what God provides to make it so, in all this.  Salvation is the nature of all this.  And you hope in the end that you got it right, and that God is merciful enough to allow you into the restoration of all things that will come one day.  Beyond this, we just don't know.  In all this, tools, traditions, rituals (like Baptism) and so on are given to aid people in the trip (so others see it).   And yes, you do hope that, at Final Judgment, you got it.  According to the wolves and sheep gospel texts, many won't get it.  And looking at the world, I would be apt to say that is true.  I will also say that God doesn't need anything from anyone, but just wants His kids to be good to one another. 

Want to sum it up, consider this from the Book of James (James 1:27):

Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

All other things are merely reflections of this.  And go by the spirit of the text.  If you merely take it literally, then you will fail to be a Good Samaritan (there you go, that is another reference to another parable).  And it all consists of lots and lots of works and deeds involved, as it shows that the Christian faith is of this, and not just faith (belief).  It is also written in James that faith without works is dead.  And this for the faith only person is frustrating (I believe Luther wanted to throw out the Book of James).  How one is able to harmonize James with the Book of Romans in regards to this, is an art (maybe something about the grace of God enabling the good works is an answer).

I should close by stating I fall VERY short of James 1:27 says.  There is no try in that text, there is only do.  So, on this note, I will say that mercy is called upon.

It would be awesome if someone didn't start a thread on here saying that they thought Creationists were misinformed... at least.  And then that snowballed.  When you do stuff in off-topic forums like this, then you get that.

You do ask a good question.  Why is God different than Santa Claus?  What compels the human brain to consider a God entity, but abandons Santa Claus.  You have the next few years to do research into neurotheology to get answers to that.  You may find some interesting things.  I would suggest starting with the book "How God Changes Your Brain".

I do believe this.  I no longer believe in God but then and now I found it impossible to accept that you could be a 100% dick and still genuinely be open to God in your heart.  I know people who try to be good often fail but some people fail so hard so much I dunno if they're really trying. 

Also you didn't mention the Counter-Reformation?  I mean the Catholic Church did fix a lot of what caused the Protestant splintering even if it was too late for reconciliation.  It's a different Church than where your post left off IMO.  Good post though. 

The text involves people repenting, having a change of mind, deciding that a way is wrong.  In that, that should clear up being the 100% dik.  As for some other people, they have things in their mind, they can't be anything but.  Besides this, you have others who are so blasted cocksure about their way, there is no way they change.  They hearts are hardened, and set in ways that aren't good.  People could be governed by fear.

As far as the Counter-Reformation, there was that from the Catholic Church.  But, I was talking about post Reformation Protestants which ended up being all about free will, and pushing a sliver of what Luther wrote, and ran with it (I believe the original poster is likely in the camp).   And the Catholic Church had tried to reconcile things, but it got very messy.  One could say the entire issue comes down to having a Pope, and centering the Christian faith around that.  In that approach (Here I give an Orthodox critique of the West), the idea is one man Bible = right understanding.  People end up disagreeing with the Pope, so they become Popes themselves.

In regards to myself, I am camped in the Eastern Orthodox camp as far as the Christian faith goes.  I have had a long journey and studied the history of Christian thought, to try to sort things out.  The East is kind of a last stop for me at this point.  I have nowhere else to go.  Outside of some issues I haven't been able to grasp, I found the East happened to be closer to what I believed when I did sola scriptura than what the West had.  The whole judicial framework just seems odd to me to put Jesus in, and the Christian faith.  It has Calvary as something that God had to do, in order to vent anger so people don't go to Hell.  See, according to a judicial focused view, sins need to be PAID for, and you can't just forgive.  So, with th West, you need Calvary as bloody as possible, and you wear crucifixes.   I do overstate a bit, in putting how the focus isn't correct as I see it.  The way I see it, the whole covanent, sacrificies and even the death of Jesus have to do with establishing something from the start, NOT paying for damage done in the past.  Sins get forgiven, not paid for.

Anyhow, I could go on deeper here with my thoughts, if people are insistent on discussing what the Christian faith is... on a forum about VIDEOGAMES.  If anyone wants to send me a message, maybe I can discuss my thoughts off this forum, unless people want me to continue.  I don't think this is the place to really get into it.  I kinda feel like that off-topic on a videogame forum should maybe be about music or things not as deep.  Maybe people can vent about religion and politics.

I do wish you luck on your sorting things out.  I do know how hard things can be there.  I have had to deal with them myself.  After agnosticism, in 1985 (wow the years go by) I had decided I would walk through protestantism and see what was there.  I figure God would have to show up in there somewhere.  I can say I found stuff I didn't expect.  I did get a lot of insight in things, although I can say a box of insight is only useful in the right context.

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