Common misconceptions about Christianity.

[sapphi_snake]

garvey0 said:

sapphi_snake said:

garvey0 said:

ManusJustus said:

Stefan.De.Machtige said:

lightbleeder said:

Religion aparts us instead of bringing us together

No, human nature  - the need for tribal identity - does that. All religions are about social unity. People use it to their own needs, desires and faults, like they do anything else.

Not true.  In fact, the Abrahamic religions are tribal and do not guide us toward social unity.

Western religions (think Greeks and Romans) are more socially advanced religions than tribal Judaism, Christianity and Islam.  The Western Empires developed tolerant religious ideals to make empire building and the inclusion of many different religious groups easier.  Thus, Roman gods and the gods of other people's in their empire coexisted, and the Romans were receptive of other religions just as they expected others to be of theirs.  Interestingly, Pontius Pilate remarked that the 'conquered make rules for the conquerers' when Romans in Palestine observed the Sabbath and other Jewish laws while the Jews made no accomodations for Roman religion.

The tribal religions are not about social unity, they are primarily concerned with the their own ethnic tribe.  Judaism is the most obvious example, but the same idea carries through to Christianity and Islam.  Jesus even initially insulted a woman and refused to heal her child because she was not a Jew, but a neighboring Cannonite (and thats after revisions from Paul who made the religion open to outsiders).  Past the ethnic issues themselves, the tribal Abrahamic religions are not tolerant of other people's religions.  Not only do they regard them as completely false, but throughout history they have forced other people to convert to their religion..

First off I'd like to say that I admire the fact that you are speaking based on knowledge rather than based on emotion as many people do when arguing these sorts of things.  That being said, I have some disagreements that I'd like to address...

If the greeks and romans were so tolerant, then why is it that for 300 years both their private citizens and political leaders were arresting, giving the death penalty to, and even barbarically murdering Christians for no other reason than religious disagreements.

 

Any leader needs legitimacy, and the roman emperor's legitimacy steamed from the fact that he was of divien origin. Christians, by stating that only their God was of divine origin, were basically challenging the emperor's legitimacy. There's a reason why only the chrisitans were persecuted and not other religions.

Plus it's not as if the christians were themselves any better. The only reason chrisitanity became the  dominant religion in the empire was because an emperor made it the official religion, and then all those who refused to convert were tortured and killed by christians.

Ah, you do know your history!!  

You make valid points and speak truth.

Regarding your first point.  I do understand that the emperors did have that particular reasoning, however I don't consider it to be a justification.  They were lying to the people by claiming to be divine and nobody should have been worshipping them in the first place.  Just because the Christians refused to believe their lie does not justify murdering them.

Also it wasn't only the emperors who were killing them, but run of the mill citizens would launch there own attacks against the Christians that were motivated by nothing more than ignorance, bigotry, and unfounded fear.  Some of the attacks were based on the fact that the Christians "drank the blood of Christ" and so the people considered them to be cannibals and wanted to kill them because of that.

As far as constantine and his incorporation of Christianity into the government, to my shame I don't know a whole lot about the cultural shift that took place after this.  However, I do agree that when the government is allowed to use the church as a mouthpiece things tend to go downhill fast.  I know that many people have been killed in the name of Christianity as a result of this (many many many who were killed were Christians themselves who were trying to promote true Biblical Christianity i'd like to note in fairness.) 

It wasn't really the Government using the Church, but rather the Curch using the Government. You could actually say that up until the rise of securalism the Government and the Church worked hand in hand, the Church having more power however.

As for the things you said about people killing christians out of "ignorance, bigotry and unfounded fear", well christians did pretty much the same. Pagans that refused to convert to Christianity were tortured and murdered, and accused of things like human sacrifices and cannibalism. Today this is known as a PR tactic called "demonising the opposition", where false generalisations are used to tarnish the image of an opponent, thus creating justification for all kinds of gruesome acts. Examples: "the great jewish consipracy" used by the Nazis, or the so-called "homosexual agenda" used by right-wing groups in the USA.