You know theprof, I have a hard time taking your opinion seriously when you drug on a Forza thread to a ridiculous amount of pages because the movements weren't matching with the screen, completely ignoring how irrelevant that was to its actual performance (all the previews said it worked just fine).

Sorry, but you've gone out of your way this week to criticize just about everything Xbox 360 this week, and it's certainly not surprising to me that this seems to be your new favorite thread. I may be wrong, but to me this makes Zenfolder's opinion more credible than yours.

Wow, I must have a real problem expressing an idea when it makes someone go out and believe someting completely ridiculous instead.

Just an fyi man. Everyone in the forza thread arguing with me was under the assumption that I was saying the game didn't work that way, or that the game was fake, or some other lunacy to that extent. I BLATANTLY explained that I knew the game worked and I wasn't doubting the capabilities several several several times, and it really irks me when people like you just gloss over those parts and write a post in another thread like you just did.

Since the beginning of that thread we were talking about how the demos were just videos with actors acting them out. How the xbox fans took that and changed it to us implying that the game itself was fake is beyond me and a telltale sign of someone trying to change the argument to something they can prove wrong. Go read the thread again when you're less angry.

In fact, here is the first post and response to what you're talking about:

maximus22 said:

Thank you.  I didn't think I had gone completely insane just yet. 

It's just, where's the line? If you're going to hide stuff from the audience... how far are you willing to go? Show fake graphics? Show fake titles? Honestly, looking at the featured kinect stuff, how many of those games are going to be in the actual game? You woo a crowd with ping pong and then the game turns out to not have ping pong. That can be justified. "It was something we were working on during kinect development, we decided not to go with it and instead included some other things that needed the space". Meanwhile, people are going to argue about these things that may or may not even be real. "We wanted to avoid bloopers and save time".

That's kind of messed up that we allow things like that to happen.

_

later on, I literally had to figure out what people were arguing about:

tuscaniman said:

"Give it up, Kinect works. Minority Report is coming to fruition. The voice control and full body control both work as advertised."

-
Theprof00 said:
"nobody is saying kinect doesn't work. Stop being defensive. We've been saying from the start that all the kinect stuff shown at the press conference was videos with actors acting them out.

to think this whole argument is because you think I'm saying it doesn't work."

here is me saying it again:

"nobody is saying the game doesn't actually work. We are talking about the on-stage body(lip)-syncing."

The argument evolved in this way from start to finish:

The kinect demo was faked, this is disappointing.
-No they didn't
Yes they did, look at these clips
-Ok, I can see it there, but the forza one was real
No it wasn't (long argument about mirror images because everyone ignored him moving slightly in a different direction)
-The game works
I know it does, but this is a video not a game being played
-Who cares?
I care, other people care, it's been all over the internet forums
-It wasn't on ign or other websites
You're right, it's on forum sites
- Forum sites are a small portion of hardcore niche gamers. Mainstream won't care.
Ok, I just think it's shady and manipulative
- Everyone is shady and manipulative
Nintendo and Sony aren't showing videos with people acting out playing the game on stage, and they never have.
-They wanted to avoid slipups like Zelda
Sure I understand, but that's part of the show, people give leeway for mistakes on stage. Mistakes happen.
- Manipulating the consumers is essence of the show.

I move my PS3 all the time when playing graphically heavy games. As soon as I hear that fan spped increase I move the PS3 into a more open area. As for my Wii, I've had my cat knock that whilst playing and had no problems. My 360 has been lucky, but I haven't had it as long and it was second-hand, so I have no idea how well it would hold up, but if it's one of the later models it should hold up fine. Either way, no scratched discs this gen. Had a host of problems with my PS2 last gen, no problems this gen.

Anyway, the problem with the new redesign is that it doesn't take a violent movement to scratch the discs, but a simple movement that is quite possible in accidental scenarios.

When i had my old phat PS3 i use to move it to a better ventilated place during uncharted when the fan kicked in like you said, and it didnt make any noises nore did it stratch the disc, havn't moved my slim though as the fan has never kicked in on that 

Well, i've never seen an e74 error. but i was under the impression that would stop you from playing the game completely. and the game is clearly still running. i dont know why someone would buy 4 360's then make this video; but according to someone else on this thread people bought PS3s on launch then trashed them with baseball bats. i know that might not be true, but if thats even slightly possible then so is some troll imo.

the reason i think this could just be some simple mistake is because M$ have recieved huge backlash over the RROD thing, so it seems ridiculous that they would fuck up a brand new console with the same or similar error.

that's a group. SImilar to the "will it blend" guys who blend everything in their super-blender.
They acknowledge they are doing this for fun and do it to everything, not ps3s or 360s. There is no elaborate conspiracy behind it. People destroy hard drives all the time too and put it on video. They think it makes them cool. I would say that's a big difference.

Honestly, I don't think this is going to be a big issue. But I understand the fear that would make fans deny this as a hoax or faulty wiring. This would be a huge problem. I mean, coupled with the thing where simply lifting one side of the slim can make the console eat the disc, it's scary, i think. People in that thread said he violently shook the console, it's that way on every console, and nobody ever moves their consoles while playing. All of which are complete fabrications.

But it could eventually turn out to have been a hoax. We'll have to wait and see.

EDIT: also I need to clarify. Before your x-box tells you have have an e74 error and shuts down, you can still have an e74. The GPU isn't dead yet, but it's dying. It needs to completely die before the console calls it an e74. That is a limitation of the console not being able to identify intermediate changes. It's like cancer or something. You don't have to wait until someone is dead to call it cancer. It's cancer.

When a disc spins, it naturally stabalizes itself. Kinda like how a bullet or football spins, in order to keep it from yawing.

With a floating disc system, which a vast amount of disc drives including the 360, xbox 1, and PS2 are, the disc is only stabalized by this spinning.

If a jolt is introducted, the disc will yaw, and since it's spinning so fast, it causes a violent reaction.

This is a weakness to all floating disc systems, not the 360, and thus, this is by design.

I'm not sure if the PS3 or the Wii have a spindle system or a free floating system, but I do know that it is not recommended by any manufacturer to move a console while a disc is in play. And I am absolute sure, because I've witnessed it, that doing this can cause severe disc scratching in every version of all 3 current gen consoles.

Again, the degree of jolt required to cause this violent event is what's at debate here. Now, slight movement of the 360, isn't a jolt. You can move, and even jostle the system during disc spinning and not cause it to get off track.

However, if you knock it over, or off of something, or bump it with your elbow, ect, it can cause the issue at hand. I'm not sure of the exact degree of jolt required beteween consoles to cause this issue, but I know it is possible and actual in all three consoles, and in any disc drive that does not have a snap in disc system.

Edit: I didn't read your full reply, I see you and I actually agree, lol.

that looks like standard PC video card blow out. I remember getting those all the time in older video cards. Not so much today. I wouldn't say it's from overheating, but I have seen it come from hardware malfunction none the less.

ALso keep in mind that MS is only removing the RRoD while admitting that the system is still prone to hardware malfunction. I really want to buy a 360, but not while it's going to suffer hardware issues. I'm not a zealot or fanatic who believes it's acceptable to buy or return a unit numerous times.

If the vid is legit, it's definitely a hardware malfunction, which is fine. All hardware has malfunctions of a certain percent and it is inevitable that many such malfunctions for all consoles are reported.

However, if the issue is heat, then that would lead us to believe that there is a significant problem regarding the actual redesign of the new console.

My question is how did the poster of the video, and others in this thread, come to the conclusion that heat caused this when there is absolutely no evidence of that.