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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - All is not lost for MS fanboys

A203D said:
Squilliam said:

Actually Microsoft IMO are targeting 4 main areas.

1. People who are intimidated by controllers, any controllers.

2. People who would never consider playing games.

3. People who are excited by hands free interfaces for media/gaming.

4. People who are underserved by the Wii by attempting to make the experience as easy as possible and with new possibilities brought out by the different interface.

Microsoft haven't given up on their competition with Sony and they aren't losing ground that fast to make it useless for them to try to compete. This is the reason why they released the Xbox 360 redesign because it addresses every single major complaint about the system I.E. No wifi, a bit too large, ugly, and noisy.

I personally don't see many people choosing between a 3DS or an Xbox 360 even though I suspect the 3DS may very well be the fastest selling gaming device of all time once Nintendo ramp production. They address different markets and the connection more tenuous than the gameboy advance was to the Gamecube because whilst the GBA was a sales masterpiece the GC flopped hard.

Anyway Microsoft unveiled 4 key killer apps for the mainstream market.

1. Media interface ESPN to go along with Netflix, Zune, Zune video, Sky TV.

2. Dance game which was more akin to Rockband, and it looked like a lot of fun. Its unique and not replicated like that anywhere.

3. Fitness game. Sure theres the Wii Fit but this is an entirely different approach and from what I saw it may actually work better as a fitness program which surprised me. Ubisoft obviously know their stuff.

4. Kinectimals. It looks like it uses the same Milo base technology. It looks very compelling to keep small children distracted for half an hour or so at a time. Parents love anything which keeps their kids from bugging them!

1. Who are you trying to kid, people who would be intimdated by controllers are people like parents, adults and the elderly who have no real experience with gaming devices. a lot like the wii market. these are also people who wouldnt play games like call of duty, or even super mario galaxy. so again, adults etc. a lot of the games even look like Wii sports.

okay fair enough some people are interested in hands free entertainment and maybe some arent satisfied with the wii. but the wii has sold has sold a lot more than the 360; M$ are motivated into targetting this market for 1 reason alone, and that is profit. do you think a billionaire like bill gates cares about helping underserved wii users. of course not, or they would have targetted that market when they came into this generation.

2. i think the reason the 3DS might impede kinect's stride is because a lot of parents buy a DS for their kids and a fair amount of adults use the brain training games, puzzle games etc. so i think these people will have to decide if they want: a new motion capable device or a new 3D handheld for what i think could be a simmilar price point. but then for those without a 360, kinect would be more expensive than a 3DS. families and kids is the key market for kinect.

3. yeah fair enough ESPN is pretty cool. but this dance game seems very simmilar to 'just dance' on the wii, which was a hit. your telling me that M$ isnt targetting the fitness fans who enjoyed wii fit. and kinectimals, you have heard of nintendogs i take it. kinectimals seems based on very simmilar principles, some would say identical!!

 




1. Its something I heard from developers relaying some of their experiences with focus groups. Trust me, im not pulling this out of thin air. There are a lot of reasons for it between intimidation as in everyone is a complete and utter noob at some point and thinking that gaming is stupid. However these same people may see movies/music on demand as useful or ESPN and SKY in U.K./U.S. respectively as useful. So the entry isn't always going to have to be gaming related.

They didn't have the incentive or will to target these users because they were more interested in copying Sony TBH. That doesn't mean that they cannot refocus on new markets part way through the generation. I cannot speculate on their motivations, plans or anything like that so im not about to say Kinect was always in their plans or it was never in their plans. At face value at least it appears that even if it was coming, the Wii accellerated its development.

2. Sure from the perspective of the gaming dollar, or even the entertainment budget. However Kinect is for the family whereas the 3DS is a personal game device for usually one person. Its not directly competing even though its in the same market. Its the Ketchup to the Mustard in the condiments market really if you get what I mean. Both condiments but they serve different purposes.

3. Sorry, never played Nintendogs but the interactions seemed to be completely different but im not going to claim certainty here. However the dance program and fitness program are different in that they rely on total body movement as an interface rather than simply a single point of reference in the balance board or Wiimotes. Kinect simply makes a lot more sense as an interface for these types of games.



Tease.

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ninty3ds said:
A203D said:
Squilliam said:

ninty3ds said:

yeah, kinect is a bad idea on so many levels...

- 360 crowd is young hardcore gamers (especially shooters fans), the exact opposite of the Wii crowd... They're risking losing them a lot quicker than they gain a new crowd...

True! Hannah Montana PSP bundle was the end for the PSP.

No, because Sony has a lot of 1st party studios.

Unlike MS. Hence Kinect games were then end of core games, like you could see at E3 : only Gears 27 and Halo 12, nothing else.

Rare is busy making Kinect games, so is every MS 1st party.

So what?


- 150 ms lag reported (vs 22 ms on move) : which serious game can you play with 150 ms lag ??

I heard that Killzone 2 was very playable and so was GTA IV and many other titles.

The difference is Kinect games are not FPS, they're party games where fun depends a lot more on the lack of lag.

I've been booted from servers with a latency of 120-150ms. The reverse is true.

- 150 $ seriously, nobody will buy it at that price ? Not me, not my friends either, not my mother.

Kevin Butler was very nice to tell you the price of the Kinect peripheral when he came back from the future, pew pew!

Not hard really, go check on every site, it's 150$. Try harder.

Microsoft is announcing the price at Gamescom along with their Core Kinect lineup. Im happy to wait until then. The fact that they were able to keep Xbox 360 S a secret until the conferrence makes the $149 look like a place holder price. I've seen cost breakdowns at less than $40 for Kinect.


- every game is a "Wii Too". Kinectimals = Nintendogs / Eyepet, Kinect Sports = Wii Sports, dancing games and so on...

Don't work up too much of a sweat trying to tell them apart.

It's easy to see the difference. Wii games are better and they were there 4 years ago.

Wii is a success, Kinect is a failure, so it's quite easy to see the difference, you're right.

Present tense for a future product. You're dazzling me with your intelligence.


- zero core game (of course there is NO core experience you can make without controller... don't start me on faking a wheel with your hands on Forza, you know the precision is ZERO... 150 ms lag would kill it anyway)

Didn't you get the memo? Casual is the new core.

For 360 owners, yeah, it's dance party and scratchy the tiger now. Can't wait.

Just kidding, I'll keep my core games, thanks...

Core games are at Gamescom in August...

 

- you must stand up while using it (what were they thinking ? who doesn't sit when he plays or watches movies ? lol)

Mistakes do happen. Obviously Microsoft employees were so excited by Kinect that they never managed to sit down and use it.

Even IGN, even Kotaku (a MS fanboy site) acknowledged it didn't work unless you stand up.

Go read and become less ignorant.

Go think and become less ignorant.


It just doesn't work. It's a pure financial suicide from MS point, seriously.

Thats ok. In my opinion the PS2 didn't work as a gaming machine and that managed to sell over 100M.

PS2 had great games , all Kinect has is 15 shovelware Wii copies

Even if it sold, it would still suck hard and being laughed at like it is right now.

No the PS2 had sucky games. They were almost all using interlaced graphics which is terrible to anyone who actually has standards.


 

 




Feel free to stand up and reply. You must get used to stand up with Kinect anyway.

I'll sit down for this one. Your crack smoke is making me dizzy.



Tease.

Squilliam said:
ninty3ds said:
A203D said:
Squilliam said:

ninty3ds said:

yeah, kinect is a bad idea on so many levels...

- 360 crowd is young hardcore gamers (especially shooters fans), the exact opposite of the Wii crowd... They're risking losing them a lot quicker than they gain a new crowd...

True! Hannah Montana PSP bundle was the end for the PSP.

No, because Sony has a lot of 1st party studios.

Unlike MS. Hence Kinect games were then end of core games, like you could see at E3 : only Gears 27 and Halo 12, nothing else.

Rare is busy making Kinect games, so is every MS 1st party.

So what?

So you got nothing from MS 1st party except dance and animals games. Quite a problem for core gamers like, I don't know, everybody on this forum.

If that's what you like, fair enough. Your tastes changed I guess.

 

 

- 150 ms lag reported (vs 22 ms on move) : which serious game can you play with 150 ms lag ??

I heard that Killzone 2 was very playable and so was GTA IV and many other titles.

The difference is Kinect games are not FPS, they're party games where fun depends a lot more on the lack of lag.

I've been booted from servers with a latency of 120-150ms. The reverse is true.

Such a lag kills nearly every party / action game they can invent actually, but maybe it's still playable...

 

 

- 150 $ seriously, nobody will buy it at that price ? Not me, not my friends either, not my mother.

Kevin Butler was very nice to tell you the price of the Kinect peripheral when he came back from the future, pew pew!

Not hard really, go check on every site, it's 150$. Try harder.

Microsoft is announcing the price at Gamescom along with their Core Kinect lineup. Im happy to wait until then. The fact that they were able to keep Xbox 360 S a secret until the conferrence makes the $149 look like a place holder price. I've seen cost breakdowns at less than $40 for Kinect.

I really doubt 40$ will be the price, 150$ looks a lot more "real" to me but fair enough, let's wait and see.

 


- every game is a "Wii Too". Kinectimals = Nintendogs / Eyepet, Kinect Sports = Wii Sports, dancing games and so on...

Don't work up too much of a sweat trying to tell them apart.

It's easy to see the difference. Wii games are better and they were there 4 years ago.

Wii is a success, Kinect is a failure, so it's quite easy to see the difference, you're right.

Present tense for a future product. You're dazzling me with your intelligence.

So do you with your new love for dance games.

At least Move is working with real games, like Sorcerer, Socom 4 or Tiger Woods. Where are those games for Kinect ?

Please show me since you're so smart.

If all MS can show is a dance game and casual games, then what was the point of Natal to begin with ? I thought it was supposed to be revolutionary.

 


- zero core game (of course there is NO core experience you can make without controller... don't start me on faking a wheel with your hands on Forza, you know the precision is ZERO... 150 ms lag would kill it anyway)

Didn't you get the memo? Casual is the new core.

For 360 owners, yeah, it's dance party and scratchy the tiger now. Can't wait.

Just kidding, I'll keep my core games, thanks...

Core games are at Gamescom in August...

Fair enough if it's true, but I really doubt it. I don't see why they would still not be there at E3.

E3 is the biggest video game event and the product will be released in a few months and you're telling me the games can't be shown now ? I really doubt it, but let's wait and see.

 

 

- you must stand up while using it (what were they thinking ? who doesn't sit when he plays or watches movies ? lol)

Mistakes do happen. Obviously Microsoft employees were so excited by Kinect that they never managed to sit down and use it.

Even IGN, even Kotaku (a MS fanboy site) acknowledged it didn't work unless you stand up.

Go read and become less ignorant.

Go think and become less ignorant.

Wow what a powerful reply, congrats, now I can see you're smarter than me indeed. /s

You want the link for Kotaku article ? I'll help you. Here it is :

http://kotaku.com/5565777/xbox-kinect-does-not-play-well-with-couch-potatoes?skyline=true&s=i

Kinect doesn't work unless you stand up right now, a MAJOR flaw since no core game can be played standing up for hours.

Please reply my friend. Enlighten me. You must know something that IGN, Kotaku and MS devs don't know. Help them quick, they need all the help you can give them, it's released in a few months.


It just doesn't work. It's a pure financial suicide from MS point, seriously.

Thats ok. In my opinion the PS2 didn't work as a gaming machine and that managed to sell over 100M.

PS2 had great games , all Kinect has is 15 shovelware Wii copies

Even if it sold, it would still suck hard and being laughed at like it is right now.

No the PS2 had sucky games. They were almost all using interlaced graphics which is terrible to anyone who actually has standards.

Still, Metal Gear Solid > Dance Party

and God of War > Nintendogs / kinectimals / eyetoy

But hey, just my opinion. Most gamers agree actually.

 




Feel free to stand up and reply. You must get used to stand up with Kinect anyway.

I'll sit down for this one. Your crack smoke is making me dizzy.

Come on, where is your humor ? That was fun. You must admit it's at least a slight "overlook" from your beloved MS devs.

Here is the link once again. Looks like they're all on crack except you : IGN, Kotaku, MS devs.

Everybody is on crack I tell you !

http://kotaku.com/5565777/xbox-kinect-does-not-play-well-with-couch-potatoes?skyline=true&s=i

"Sitting is something we're still calibrating for."

You must be kidding me, right ?



slowmo said:
A203D said:
Squilliam said:

Actually Microsoft IMO are targeting 4 main areas.

1. People who are intimidated by controllers, any controllers.

2. People who would never consider playing games.

3. People who are excited by hands free interfaces for media/gaming.

4. People who are underserved by the Wii by attempting to make the experience as easy as possible and with new possibilities brought out by the different interface.

Microsoft haven't given up on their competition with Sony and they aren't losing ground that fast to make it useless for them to try to compete. This is the reason why they released the Xbox 360 redesign because it addresses every single major complaint about the system I.E. No wifi, a bit too large, ugly, and noisy.

I personally don't see many people choosing between a 3DS or an Xbox 360 even though I suspect the 3DS may very well be the fastest selling gaming device of all time once Nintendo ramp production. They address different markets and the connection more tenuous than the gameboy advance was to the Gamecube because whilst the GBA was a sales masterpiece the GC flopped hard.

Anyway Microsoft unveiled 4 key killer apps for the mainstream market.

1. Media interface ESPN to go along with Netflix, Zune, Zune video, Sky TV.

2. Dance game which was more akin to Rockband, and it looked like a lot of fun. Its unique and not replicated like that anywhere.

3. Fitness game. Sure theres the Wii Fit but this is an entirely different approach and from what I saw it may actually work better as a fitness program which surprised me. Ubisoft obviously know their stuff.

4. Kinectimals. It looks like it uses the same Milo base technology. It looks very compelling to keep small children distracted for half an hour or so at a time. Parents love anything which keeps their kids from bugging them!

1. Who are you trying to kid, people who would be intimdated by controllers are people like parents, adults and the elderly who have no real experience with gaming devices. a lot like the wii market. these are also people who wouldnt play games like call of duty, or even super mario galaxy. so again, adults etc. a lot of the games even look like Wii sports.

okay fair enough some people are interested in hands free entertainment and maybe some arent satisfied with the wii. but the wii has sold has sold a lot more than the 360; M$ are motivated into targetting this market for 1 reason alone, and that is profit. do you think a billionaire like bill gates cares about helping underserved wii users. of course not, or they would have targetted that market when they came into this generation.

2. i think the reason the 3DS might impede kinect's stride is because a lot of parents buy a DS for their kids and a fair amount of adults use the brain training games, puzzle games etc. so i think these people will have to decide if they want: a new motion capable device or a new 3D handheld for what i think could be a simmilar price point. but then for those without a 360, kinect would be more expensive than a 3DS. families and kids is the key market for kinect.

3. yeah fair enough ESPN is pretty cool. but this dance game seems very simmilar to 'just dance' on the wii, which was a hit. your telling me that M$ isnt targetting the fitness fans who enjoyed wii fit. and kinectimals, you have heard of nintendogs i take it. kinectimals seems based on very simmilar principles, some would say identical!!

 




Kinect is completely different to the Wii, thats the entire marketing point Microsoft are aiming for.  There are far more non gamers out there than gamers still, Microsoft are obviously aiming to capture even more new gamers as well as some of the current market, they aren't focusing solely on stealing the Wii's market.  This is why Sony's Move is hard to understand from a marketing standpoint, it isn't aiming for a different market really at all so will be fighting both Nintendo and Microsoft for consumer share. 

Whatever the future brings I just hope Sony and Microsoft use their first party devs to push motion gaming onto another level, Nintendo have already given them a good base to start from.



the second paragraph caut my eye and i completly agree

agree with the first aswell.



Condor1980 said:

I havent seen anything at this conference by either Microsoft or Sony that make me go WOW like the first time I saw Wii Sports. That is the kind of game they need to spark their equipment. I seriously doubt that either Sony or Microsoft have that talent at their disposal



i agree with the first part, but the one thing the big 3 have in spades is talent



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tuscaniman said:
ninty3ds said:

Move is only 50 $ for one controller and it has 31 games, mostly core games. Kinect is 150 $ and only 15 casual games...

All people will see is 50 $ Move vs 150 $ for Kinect... Plus, there are Move bundles too.

I doubt Kinect will sell well but maybe I'm wrong...


The Move bundle is $99. Where are you getting this $50 from? You realize you need the PS Eye for it to even work don't you? Not to mention on top of the bundle you would have to pay another $29 for the secondary controller since it doesn't come with it. $129 for one person to play Move (assuming they already have a PS3) vs your hypothetical $150 for up to 4 people to play Kinect(assuming they already have a 360). Whats the cost for 4 people to play with the Move? $369 for everyone to have a move controller and secondary controller.

There are Kinect games supporting 4 simultaneous players ? Really...

I'm afraid that this feature will not make it...



Nintendo has set the model:  3rd place E3 press conference = huge sales and profits the next holiday



MARCUSDJACKSON said:
Condor1980 said:

I havent seen anything at this conference by either Microsoft or Sony that make me go WOW like the first time I saw Wii Sports. That is the kind of game they need to spark their equipment. I seriously doubt that either Sony or Microsoft have that talent at their disposal



i agree with the first part, but the one thing the big 3 have in spades is talent


I stil stand by my comment neither Microsoft nor Sony developers have produced anything on the level of wii sports that make not just the videogamers go wow but pretty much the whole world. Right there is the difference in theology between the companies!



ok there are some severe sony fanboys on this site, the kinect unveiling etc that was on fox in australia... the one where it showed cliff playing his gears game with 3 other people in front of many then them giving away slim... is this the same conference that everybody seems to be slamming... BAH!

absolutely ridiculous everybody who i have spoken, their jaws have hit the ground and are mocking the shape of the move etc, the nintendo conference is being absolutely graced with the gods ( i havent seen it but it seems rather popular by everybody, zelda woo) but come on, get over the hate on the 360, the new one looks slick. Is it slim? its slimmer than the old one so yes, and could the s stand for shiny as sh!t, well possibly... that is my rant for now.



 

Bet with Conegamer and Doobie_wop 

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=3879752

E3 is nothing for MS now. Just wait till they show off more stuff later.



 

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