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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Melee Levels In Brawl

MUST...HAVE...RAINBOW...CRUISE... DON'T...BRING...BACK...ONETT



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CrashMan said:

Let me start this thread off topic:

I guess I am what you call a "Hardcore Gamer," I got all 120 stars in Galaxy, and working my way through the second time (for those who know what I am talking about,) been playing games since the days of Atari and Intellivision, and I love the smash brothers franchise.

As such I can't stand the idea of playing smash on flat levels with items disabled. To me proper item use and avoidance is as important a skill in the game as proper move usage. Yes, any "newb" can grab a hammer and knock off everone, but if you are truely skilled in the game, you can use the limited manuverability of that person to your advantage.


^^ Win.

IMO part of the idea behind Smash Bros. is that all things are not always equal.  This may come as a shock to people who want fairness all the time, but you know what, I enjoy a bit of randomness.  So maybe it's not appropriate for professional tournaments, to which I say, who really gives a flying @#$%&?  I just want to have fun with my friends, and if one of them gets lucky and grabs a sledgehammer or baseball bat or a smash ball, and I'm not skilled enough to get out of the way before my sorry ass gets pwned, then so be it.  I can take the loss like a man without whining that it wasn't "fair."  Games are more fun when the outcomes are uncertain.



FightingGameGuy said:

I love Fountain of Dreams and want to see it return. Since its inspired by HAL's game, I bet I will see my wish =D. IHopefully though, Flatzone won't return to vex us all with its darned hammers and ridiculous size.

 

@Crashman [please feel free to ignore]: I respect your opinion but I also hope you can understand the concerns of those who in attending Smash tournaments travel very far and dedicate an entire long day to completing their tournaments. As tournaments results are supposed to be definitive, an overwhelming majority of such people do not want all that effort to be, in their opinion, overly determined by random factors. (The problems impact of items is magnified by the inability to turn off the mechanic that some crates and containers are randomly explode upon contact, which becomes highly problematic in that such an item can spawn once players have already dedicated their characters to a certain courses of actions they cannot change once begun.) Yes, such randomness could theoretically be leveled out by a huge number of trials, e.g., raising the stock or best of x to huge levels, but such parameters would be unfeasible if you wanted to field enough participants to make a tournament worthwhile and still complete it within a reasonale amount of time. Having organized 3 smash tournaments myself at my college, I felt such concerns even amongst my own participants and friends -- and none of them drove countless hours or even had to fly to attend my tournamanents.


I actually played a few brawl tourneys when I was in college and I wouldn't have wanted the items removed.  Besides the point is kind of moot considering the people who win these tourneys were always skilled players.  No "n00b" who gets lucky with items will win one, and if you get knocked out of the tournament because of items, then you aren't very skilled, IMO.

If you are good with items, you can do some great things, that are difficult to pull off but are, in my opinion, some of the purest smash elements.



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Corneria is my favorite stage in Melee. I hope it makes it in.



Mute City! Or at least bring back the music in a new Mute City stage.



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I honestly hope that online matches don't devolve into 1v1 no items, battlefield, fox (or whatever high tier character) only.

I loved starcraft back in the day, but after a while you only had two choices. Hardcore 1v1 lost temple (possibly with observers) or 8 player BGH, or 4 players vs 4 computers BGH where somebody inevitably backstabs. All the games became the same, which is a problem with alot of popular online games. People pick a style and it becomes popular, and then variety dies. I really hope that doesn't happen to smash.



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Corneria. Played about half my matches there, nice and flat, but not actually flat as to make a guy with superscope able to piss everyone off. I had countless battles with my two mates as we always tried to hold the cockpit region from a level-9, handicapped-9 Link while we were all handicap-level-1 Jiggly Puffs. Fantastic level.

Oh and fountain of dreams. I would play that level for the music alone.



CrashMan said:

I actually played a few brawl tourneys when I was in college and I wouldn't have wanted the items removed. Besides the point is kind of moot considering the people who win these tourneys were always skilled players. No "n00b" who gets lucky with items will win one, and if you get knocked out of the tournament because of items, then you aren't very skilled, IMO.

If you are good with items, you can do some great things, that are difficult to pull off but are, in my opinion, some of the purest smash elements.

 

I think you mean played in a few melee tournaments  =D.

I'm not saying that items will make an unskilled player win, especially not an entire tournament.  The issue however, is that uneven luck may allow for a less skilled player to win a pacticular match in which luck greatly favored him.  In Smash bros with items on, the difference in whom luck favors is sufficent to determine the outcome of any one match-up where the participants are close enough in skill. 

With inability to fully anticipate the random spawning exploding crates and containers, it is no longer issue of only who gets to use better items in the course of a match but also that sometimes items force deaths which you cannot do anything about at all.  For some players, this possiblity is so undesirable that no matter how unlikely, items should be turned off in all circumstances.

For most others, as they commit more time (and sometimes more money) to a tournament, their tolerance for allowing items influencing match-ups continues to decay.  Hence, in tournaments with sufficient investment the majority of players will want items off.

I agree items are fun and allow you to do some crazy things with them, (throw screw attack ball => rest with puff was my favorite) but I just want to defend what I think is the entirely reasonable thinking behind why most all large scale smash tournaments (e.g. those organized by smashboards.com) turn off items.



yea items don't help new players defeat pros. When you have two pros fighting each other items will favor one of them, it's never ever going to be split evenly unless you just turn the items off. It's fun to play both ways but when you're playing a game of skill and no luck there can't be any items.



I would love to see just about all of them back.

My exceptions are:
Mushroom Kingdom - Rainbow Cruise (or whichever)
Icicle Mountain

Other than those two, I'm fine with all of them. I wish Samus would have some better stages, but her ones from Melee certainly make for some interesting challenges, so I say keep 'em. I honestly wish that they would have every level from the previous two games, plus the new ones. Even if I'm not big on Icicle Mountain or Rainbow Cruise.