mrstickball said: Samus Aran said: oldschoolfool said: Samus Aran said: Armads said: Samus Aran said: I never said he was better, you just don't need to demonize everyone that's against you. I thought we were past that after the world wars and the cold war. Bush his axis of evil pops to mind lol. Admadinejad doesn't need us to demonize him, he's doing it good enough for himself.  Rigging elections (+10 million votes missing), Creating nuclear weapons (evidence previously provided), holding weekly death chants calling for Death to America and Death to the English, using police to open fire on anyone who peacefully protests his government.   And here's a fun quote “As the Imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map,” coming from a man who is attempting to (or already has) create nuclear weapons, this doesn't sound like playful banter to me.   This man is a tyrant and there is no reason to defend him.  We're not making him look anyworse than how much he himself is doing. American evidence is no evidence at all. There's simply no real proof Iran has nuclear weapons. It would be Iraq all over again. Killing a tyrant, but the people will still live in the same horrible conditions.  USA shouldn't mind someone rigging elections, after all, you guys are/were the supporters of dictators all across the globe. Your description of Ahmadinejad sounds awfully familiar to China. Why don't you stand up against them? Why do you defend it? Ahmadinejad a smart enough guy to know he's done for if he'd ever launch nuclear weapons on Israel anyway. There's no reason to defend Ahmadinejad, just like there's no reason to support the ridiculous wars of the USA.  Do you hate the U.S.? Ahmadinejad is a tyrant plain and simple. I think he has nuclear weapons,but proving it is easier said than done. What do you mean the ridiculous wars of the USA? I agree that we did'nt have any business evading Iraq. So I'm going to have to agree to disagree on the other stuff. I don't hate the US, I just hate the hypocrisy. It's plain and simple why the US invaded Iraq. If Iran didn't have oil US probably wouldn't even have cared for it.  So you think the US invaded Iraq for oil? If so, can you show me how much oil the US is getting from Iraq since the invasion?

Saddam Hussein was a constant threat for the other rich oil states. The invasion of Kuwait speaks for it self. So they decided to take care of the problem once and for all. Not that it was the only reason for invading, but it played a role.

mrstickball said: Samus Aran said: oldschoolfool said: Samus Aran said: Armads said: Samus Aran said: I never said he was better, you just don't need to demonize everyone that's against you. I thought we were past that after the world wars and the cold war. Bush his axis of evil pops to mind lol. Admadinejad doesn't need us to demonize him, he's doing it good enough for himself.  Rigging elections (+10 million votes missing), Creating nuclear weapons (evidence previously provided), holding weekly death chants calling for Death to America and Death to the English, using police to open fire on anyone who peacefully protests his government.   And here's a fun quote “As the Imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map,” coming from a man who is attempting to (or already has) create nuclear weapons, this doesn't sound like playful banter to me.   This man is a tyrant and there is no reason to defend him.  We're not making him look anyworse than how much he himself is doing. American evidence is no evidence at all. There's simply no real proof Iran has nuclear weapons. It would be Iraq all over again. Killing a tyrant, but the people will still live in the same horrible conditions.  USA shouldn't mind someone rigging elections, after all, you guys are/were the supporters of dictators all across the globe. Your description of Ahmadinejad sounds awfully familiar to China. Why don't you stand up against them? Why do you defend it? Ahmadinejad a smart enough guy to know he's done for if he'd ever launch nuclear weapons on Israel anyway. There's no reason to defend Ahmadinejad, just like there's no reason to support the ridiculous wars of the USA.  Do you hate the U.S.? Ahmadinejad is a tyrant plain and simple. I think he has nuclear weapons,but proving it is easier said than done. What do you mean the ridiculous wars of the USA? I agree that we did'nt have any business evading Iraq. So I'm going to have to agree to disagree on the other stuff. I don't hate the US, I just hate the hypocrisy. It's plain and simple why the US invaded Iraq. If Iran didn't have oil US probably wouldn't even have cared for it.  So you think the US invaded Iraq for oil? If so, can you show me how much oil the US is getting from Iraq since the invasion?

FYI... best chart I can find on that... though it's a crappy chart....

i FULLY support the OP here.

americans, keep your army on your own borders, thank you

the only thing they ever get done is killing people for various reasons

Samus Aran said: Armads said: Samus Aran said: I never said he was better, you just don't need to demonize everyone that's against you. I thought we were past that after the world wars and the cold war. Bush his axis of evil pops to mind lol. Admadinejad doesn't need us to demonize him, he's doing it good enough for himself.  Rigging elections (+10 million votes missing), Creating nuclear weapons (evidence previously provided), holding weekly death chants calling for Death to America and Death to the English, using police to open fire on anyone who peacefully protests his government.   And here's a fun quote “As the Imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map,” coming from a man who is attempting to (or already has) create nuclear weapons, this doesn't sound like playful banter to me.   This man is a tyrant and there is no reason to defend him.  We're not making him look anyworse than how much he himself is doing. American evidence is no evidence at all. There's simply no real proof Iran has nuclear weapons. It would be Iraq all over again. Killing a tyrant, but the people will still live in the same horrible conditions.  USA shouldn't mind someone rigging elections, after all, you guys are/were the supporters of dictators all across the globe. Your description of Ahmadinejad sounds awfully familiar to China. Why don't you stand up against them? Why do you defend it? Ahmadinejad a smart enough guy to know he's done for if he'd ever launch nuclear weapons on Israel anyway. There's no reason to defend Ahmadinejad, just like there's no reason to support the ridiculous wars of the USA.

Defectors from Iran providing documents that show them obtaining UD3 is real proof, whether you're in denial of the fact or not.  But you want proof that comes from another nation?  How about the fact that Iran kept several nuclear facilities secret from UN inspections  (and there are suspected to be more) that we only learned of after defectors revealed their locations to us (and they were indeed subsequently found.  One doesn't hide nuclear power plants while obtaining nuclear warhead trigger devices for benign reasons.

  I don't defend china as most Americans don't.  But the people have no power of the corporations who decide to make money with China.  

Pyramid Head said: i FULLY support the OP here. americans, keep your army on your own borders, thank you the only thing they ever get done is killing people for various reasons

Once again,what does america being bad have to do with the president of Iran being a peaceful man.You can say all you want about the U.S,but nothing you say is going to make the president of Iran a peaaceful man.Just becuse America is "evil" doesnt mean in any way that Ahmadinejad is a peaceful man.Even  Samus Arun who has been highly critical of the U.S knows thats true.

Armads said: Samus Aran said: Armads said: Samus Aran said: I never said he was better, you just don't need to demonize everyone that's against you. I thought we were past that after the world wars and the cold war. Bush his axis of evil pops to mind lol. Admadinejad doesn't need us to demonize him, he's doing it good enough for himself.  Rigging elections (+10 million votes missing), Creating nuclear weapons (evidence previously provided), holding weekly death chants calling for Death to America and Death to the English, using police to open fire on anyone who peacefully protests his government.   And here's a fun quote “As the Imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map,” coming from a man who is attempting to (or already has) create nuclear weapons, this doesn't sound like playful banter to me.   This man is a tyrant and there is no reason to defend him.  We're not making him look anyworse than how much he himself is doing. American evidence is no evidence at all. There's simply no real proof Iran has nuclear weapons. It would be Iraq all over again. Killing a tyrant, but the people will still live in the same horrible conditions.  USA shouldn't mind someone rigging elections, after all, you guys are/were the supporters of dictators all across the globe. Your description of Ahmadinejad sounds awfully familiar to China. Why don't you stand up against them? Why do you defend it? Ahmadinejad a smart enough guy to know he's done for if he'd ever launch nuclear weapons on Israel anyway. There's no reason to defend Ahmadinejad, just like there's no reason to support the ridiculous wars of the USA.  Defectors from Iran providing documents that show them obtaining UD3 is real proof, whether you're in denial of the fact or not.  But you want proof that comes from another nation?  How about the fact that Iran kept several nuclear facilities secret from UN inspections  (and there are suspected to be more) that we only learned of after defectors revealed their locations to us (and they were indeed subsequently found.  One doesn't hide nuclear power plants while obtaining nuclear warhead trigger devices for benign reasons.   I don't defend china as most Americans don't.  But the people have no power of the corporations who decide to make money with China.

If you're not defending China then why don't you recognize the Republic of China? Then why doesn't anyone take real actions against the occupation of Tibet? Then why is China a permanent member of the UN security council while the republic of China isn't even in it anymore?

And like I said there's no real proof, just suspicion based on some evidence. If there was real proof they had nuclear weapons we wouldn't even try to make deals with Iran anymore.  

Samus Aran said: Armads said: Samus Aran said: Armads said: Samus Aran said: I never said he was better, you just don't need to demonize everyone that's against you. I thought we were past that after the world wars and the cold war. Bush his axis of evil pops to mind lol. Admadinejad doesn't need us to demonize him, he's doing it good enough for himself.  Rigging elections (+10 million votes missing), Creating nuclear weapons (evidence previously provided), holding weekly death chants calling for Death to America and Death to the English, using police to open fire on anyone who peacefully protests his government.   And here's a fun quote “As the Imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map,” coming from a man who is attempting to (or already has) create nuclear weapons, this doesn't sound like playful banter to me.   This man is a tyrant and there is no reason to defend him.  We're not making him look anyworse than how much he himself is doing. American evidence is no evidence at all. There's simply no real proof Iran has nuclear weapons. It would be Iraq all over again. Killing a tyrant, but the people will still live in the same horrible conditions.  USA shouldn't mind someone rigging elections, after all, you guys are/were the supporters of dictators all across the globe. Your description of Ahmadinejad sounds awfully familiar to China. Why don't you stand up against them? Why do you defend it? Ahmadinejad a smart enough guy to know he's done for if he'd ever launch nuclear weapons on Israel anyway. There's no reason to defend Ahmadinejad, just like there's no reason to support the ridiculous wars of the USA.  Defectors from Iran providing documents that show them obtaining UD3 is real proof, whether you're in denial of the fact or not.  But you want proof that comes from another nation?  How about the fact that Iran kept several nuclear facilities secret from UN inspections  (and there are suspected to be more) that we only learned of after defectors revealed their locations to us (and they were indeed subsequently found.  One doesn't hide nuclear power plants while obtaining nuclear warhead trigger devices for benign reasons.   I don't defend china as most Americans don't.  But the people have no power of the corporations who decide to make money with China.   If you're not defending China then why don't you recognize the Republic of China? Then why doesn't anyone take real actions against the occupation of Tibet? Then why is China a permanent member of the UN security council while the republic of China isn't even in it anymore? And like I said there's no real proof, just suspicion based on some evidence. If there was real proof they had nuclear weapons we wouldn't even try to make deals with Iran anymore.

The Republic of China is recognized, you have not been paying any attention to Obama's foreign affairs have you?  The current administration authorized a 6 billion dollar arms sale pacakage with them.  I think that's taking real action, you know providing the resistance with arms and supplies and do you really think China is a permanent member of the UN because America really really wanted it so?  Seriously consider the actual political climate of the world, China is a nuclear superpower as well as the economic legs of the whole world.  Do you think America is gonna tell them they're not allowed on the panel of permanent members and get away with it?  Especially not when Russia was deeply supporting China over the western powers.  Suspicion based on evidence, good golly what else evidence would you need? They have been keeping nuclear facilities secret from international inspection, they have been obtaining nuclear trigger devices, they constantly call for the obliteration of a state and two superpowers who support that state.

 

Your statement that we wouldn't make deals with them if they were developing nuclear weapons is not accurate, North Korea has nuclear weapons and we still make deals with them rather then go to war, you don't go to war with a state that has access to nuclear weapons.  The resulting casualties would be too high to risk.  Sorry but your argument isn't very solid considering how nations typically act.

Armads said: Samus Aran said: Armads said: Samus Aran said: Armads said: Samus Aran said: I never said he was better, you just don't need to demonize everyone that's against you. I thought we were past that after the world wars and the cold war. Bush his axis of evil pops to mind lol. Admadinejad doesn't need us to demonize him, he's doing it good enough for himself.  Rigging elections (+10 million votes missing), Creating nuclear weapons (evidence previously provided), holding weekly death chants calling for Death to America and Death to the English, using police to open fire on anyone who peacefully protests his government.   And here's a fun quote “As the Imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map,” coming from a man who is attempting to (or already has) create nuclear weapons, this doesn't sound like playful banter to me.   This man is a tyrant and there is no reason to defend him.  We're not making him look anyworse than how much he himself is doing. American evidence is no evidence at all. There's simply no real proof Iran has nuclear weapons. It would be Iraq all over again. Killing a tyrant, but the people will still live in the same horrible conditions.  USA shouldn't mind someone rigging elections, after all, you guys are/were the supporters of dictators all across the globe. Your description of Ahmadinejad sounds awfully familiar to China. Why don't you stand up against them? Why do you defend it? Ahmadinejad a smart enough guy to know he's done for if he'd ever launch nuclear weapons on Israel anyway. There's no reason to defend Ahmadinejad, just like there's no reason to support the ridiculous wars of the USA.  Defectors from Iran providing documents that show them obtaining UD3 is real proof, whether you're in denial of the fact or not.  But you want proof that comes from another nation?  How about the fact that Iran kept several nuclear facilities secret from UN inspections  (and there are suspected to be more) that we only learned of after defectors revealed their locations to us (and they were indeed subsequently found.  One doesn't hide nuclear power plants while obtaining nuclear warhead trigger devices for benign reasons.   I don't defend china as most Americans don't.  But the people have no power of the corporations who decide to make money with China.   If you're not defending China then why don't you recognize the Republic of China? Then why doesn't anyone take real actions against the occupation of Tibet? Then why is China a permanent member of the UN security council while the republic of China isn't even in it anymore? And like I said there's no real proof, just suspicion based on some evidence. If there was real proof they had nuclear weapons we wouldn't even try to make deals with Iran anymore.   The Republic of China is recognized, you have not been paying any attention to Obama's foreign affairs have you?  The current administration authorized a 6 billion dollar arms sale pacakage with them.  I think that's taking real action, you know providing the resistance with arms and supplies and do you really think China is a permanent member of the UN because America really really wanted it so?  Seriously consider the actual political climate of the world, China is a nuclear superpower as well as the economic legs of the whole world.  Do you think America is gonna tell them they're not allowed on the panel of permanent members and get away with it?  Especially not when Russia was deeply supporting China over the western powers.  Suspicion based on evidence, good golly what else evidence would you need? They have been keeping nuclear facilities secret from international inspection, they have been obtaining nuclear trigger devices, they constantly call for the obliteration of a state and two superpowers who support that state.   Your statement that we wouldn't make deals with them if they were developing nuclear weapons is not accurate, North Korea has nuclear weapons and we still make deals with them rather then go to war, you don't go to war with a state that has access to nuclear weapons.  The resulting casualties would be too high to risk.  Sorry but your argument isn't very solid considering how nations typically act.

Official diplomatic relations between the USA and Taiwan are non existent. 

What more do I need then suspicion? Didn't you learn anything from Iraq?

And with deals I meant providing them of Nuclear energy, but not enough to make nuclear weapons. If they already had nuclear weapons then what would be the point of the deal? Even if you only have a few nuclear weapons you can use them to scare of people.

Samus Aran said: Armads said: Samus Aran said: Armads said: Samus Aran said: Armads said: Samus Aran said: I never said he was better, you just don't need to demonize everyone that's against you. I thought we were past that after the world wars and the cold war. Bush his axis of evil pops to mind lol. Admadinejad doesn't need us to demonize him, he's doing it good enough for himself.  Rigging elections (+10 million votes missing), Creating nuclear weapons (evidence previously provided), holding weekly death chants calling for Death to America and Death to the English, using police to open fire on anyone who peacefully protests his government.   And here's a fun quote “As the Imam said, Israel must be wiped off the map,” coming from a man who is attempting to (or already has) create nuclear weapons, this doesn't sound like playful banter to me.   This man is a tyrant and there is no reason to defend him.  We're not making him look anyworse than how much he himself is doing. American evidence is no evidence at all. There's simply no real proof Iran has nuclear weapons. It would be Iraq all over again. Killing a tyrant, but the people will still live in the same horrible conditions.  USA shouldn't mind someone rigging elections, after all, you guys are/were the supporters of dictators all across the globe. Your description of Ahmadinejad sounds awfully familiar to China. Why don't you stand up against them? Why do you defend it? Ahmadinejad a smart enough guy to know he's done for if he'd ever launch nuclear weapons on Israel anyway. There's no reason to defend Ahmadinejad, just like there's no reason to support the ridiculous wars of the USA.  Defectors from Iran providing documents that show them obtaining UD3 is real proof, whether you're in denial of the fact or not.  But you want proof that comes from another nation?  How about the fact that Iran kept several nuclear facilities secret from UN inspections  (and there are suspected to be more) that we only learned of after defectors revealed their locations to us (and they were indeed subsequently found.  One doesn't hide nuclear power plants while obtaining nuclear warhead trigger devices for benign reasons.   I don't defend china as most Americans don't.  But the people have no power of the corporations who decide to make money with China.   If you're not defending China then why don't you recognize the Republic of China? Then why doesn't anyone take real actions against the occupation of Tibet? Then why is China a permanent member of the UN security council while the republic of China isn't even in it anymore? And like I said there's no real proof, just suspicion based on some evidence. If there was real proof they had nuclear weapons we wouldn't even try to make deals with Iran anymore.   The Republic of China is recognized, you have not been paying any attention to Obama's foreign affairs have you?  The current administration authorized a 6 billion dollar arms sale pacakage with them.  I think that's taking real action, you know providing the resistance with arms and supplies and do you really think China is a permanent member of the UN because America really really wanted it so?  Seriously consider the actual political climate of the world, China is a nuclear superpower as well as the economic legs of the whole world.  Do you think America is gonna tell them they're not allowed on the panel of permanent members and get away with it?  Especially not when Russia was deeply supporting China over the western powers.  Suspicion based on evidence, good golly what else evidence would you need? They have been keeping nuclear facilities secret from international inspection, they have been obtaining nuclear trigger devices, they constantly call for the obliteration of a state and two superpowers who support that state.   Your statement that we wouldn't make deals with them if they were developing nuclear weapons is not accurate, North Korea has nuclear weapons and we still make deals with them rather then go to war, you don't go to war with a state that has access to nuclear weapons.  The resulting casualties would be too high to risk.  Sorry but your argument isn't very solid considering how nations typically act. Official diplomatic relations between the USA and Taiwan are non existent.  What more do I need then suspicion? Didn't you learn anything from Iraq? And with deals I meant providing them of Nuclear energy, but not enough to make nuclear weapons. If they already had nuclear weapons then what would be the point of the deal? Even if you only have a few nuclear weapons you can use them to scare of people.

Did you not read my post or just dismiss it?  We supply them with arms.  We officially recognized them as a country.  To say there are no relations between the two countries is ignorant of the situation.   Obviously you missed my point, what more do you need then suspicion with ample evidence provided is what I was showing.  We want to provide them with nuclear energy because it allows us to give them the type of uranium they need for power usage but won't be compatible for making nuclear weapons, Iran has repeatedly refused our help.  So here is the evidence, Iran hides nuclear facilities, Iran obtains nuclear trigger devices, Iran refuses to accept help from other countries in developing nuclear power plants, Iran weekly calls for the obliteration of three countries.  You have to be pretty dense at this point to think there is no reason to believe Iran is pursuing or already has nuclear weapons.  Your argument that we shouldn't jump the gun because of Iraq doesn't stand either because whereas that was based on faulty CIA reports saying that Iraq probably has nuclear weapons, this evidence is coming from Iranian defectors and the international agencies of the UN.  Ignoring all the evidence on the grounds of U.S.A. not being trurstworthy is not a valid argument because the evidence itself is not only generated by the U.S.

I'm just saying there's no 100% that Iran has nuclear weapons, I have yet to hear a single official report that said there's hard solid proof Iran has nuclear weapons.

What would be the point of that deal if Iran already can and knows how to make nuclear weapons? If the USA really had proof that Iran has nuclear weapons then it would make no sense to try and make that deal. It would only make sense if Iran is trying to develop nuclear weapons, but not yet succeeded(which is something I never denied).

You have to have a great fantasy if you actually believe Iran would throw nuclear weapons on Israel. What would they gain from it? Nothing. What would they lose for it? Everything.

When one reads about the pressure that the US and UK Governments put on such countries as Iran and North Korea I find it hard to believe that they themselves are so negligent in taking care of their own weapons. I also find it so hard to believe that they have such high moral standards when trying to stop Weapons of Mass Destruction, but are prepared to use such "evil" weapons themselves.

If the USA wants to appear credible then they should be the first to remove *all* of their nuclear weapons.(alongside Russia).
Cause it's wrong for other countries to have them, but not for the US right?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the US is also the only country in the world to have abused these nuclear weapons(not including nuclear tests).

Pakistan also has nuclear weapons, and it's also an unstable and very strict Muslim country. It's also a country that supports terrorism and has a big hatred for India. They have yet to throw nuclear weapons on it however. I find it hard to believe Iran would throw nuclear weapons for no reason just to randomly destroy something. It would bite them back harder and I'm 100% positive they're fully aware of that. The last thing Ahmadinejad would do is throw nuclear weapons if he wants to remain in power. Which won't be for too long anymore as the country is about to break out in a revolution if this keeps going(Because of his crappy leadership, see I'm not defending him as you seem to think.)