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Forums - Gaming - Natal vs. Move:The game of Smoke and Mirrors

Natal has more flash because it's completely hands-free, and being pushed heavily by the Microsoft advertising machine. The Move is a controller that has more resemblance to the Wii than Natal, so people who see the Move do not react to it with nearly the same amazement as Natal. This could all change post-release if the Move works better than Natal and provides a better game library.



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I think media pay more attention to Natal because it is the "unique" motion device this gen.

Move is the wiimote copycat and isn't as much appealing to generate buzz around because people already know what it is and what it can do and how games for it will look like.

Natal is quite the opposite. Everybody is yet to see what the thing does besides the ricochet game and those E3 painting tech demos.



forevercloud3000 said:

Ok I was never a fan of Motion controls but I do know that when used properly they can create a pretty interesting gaming experience. Wii was the first to really take a step forward with this but unfortunately to many hardcore gamers such as myself, the technology has been misused only to make mediocre games. Wii Sports and the many other games to hold "Wii" in it's title are the few games that really show proper application for it(although I found the harry potter game rather interesting on the Wii).

Now we all have Natal and the Move. Both are trying to take another step in the Motion Sensing Genre but in different directions. Move is being toted as Wii HD while Natal is something really different from the other two. I would like to know other's opinions on them.

My Opinion-

I trully don't understand why the media is so abuzz about Natal and downplay the Move. If anything the Move is proven. Move is very similar to Wii in many ways so we know anything that worked for Wii could work for it as well as the Move actually SHOWED games for it while everything for Natal seems to just be theorized.

Like, honestly, what is a game that could be created for Natal that will really be FUN??? Ricochet looks so unbelievably gimmicky and just as Kevin Butler said in that PS Spot, who really wants to play a shooter with their finger? "Pew!Pew!"

What seems to be the reasoning behind this to me is the presentation the Natal had. It was a pretty big one with famous ppl galore advertising it. Yet is that really enough to sell a product? Is the common consumer that gullible? I'm not saying the Move is so much better than either of the other two Motion controllers but it does have some games that might make me really try it out (EyePet, Socom 4, LBP2,Ape EscapePS3) while the Natal has shown me nothing to prove it as interesting in the slightest. MS seems to be pulling a game of Smoke and Mirrors with the Natal and simply has everyone dumbstruck over a product with no proof of ability.

thoughts....


E3 is next month so why not wait until then before passing judgment on it? 

Also, and feel free to quote me on this, I predict Natal (or whatever it ends up being called) will outsell Move this Christmas and get far more attention in the media.



I agree that move may turn out to be the better motion tech, because it has been shown in a demo "The fight:light's out" that it has body tracking as well as 1 to 1 motion tracking. However if microsoft bring out something groundbreaking like halo on natal then i'll probably change my mind.



noname2200 said:
Squilliam beat me to it: Natal's being pushed more, and Move is already quite familiar to gamers while Natal is not, hence the higher buzz.

Understandable. Yet when I think about the Natal all I think about is the Move TVSpot with Kevin Butler and how true it is about the Natal. I can't see me having that much fun with it at all. Can you?

 

 

 



      

      

      

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forevercloud3000 said:
@Joe

I don't feel im passing unfair judgement on Natal or Move. I'm simply saying that I/WE haven't seen much of Natal proving......well anything really as a Hardcore gaming device.

I mean seriously, do you find Ricochet ground breaking? I sure don't. I'm just going by what both companies have shown so far. Maybe in due time Natal will show some good titles for it, but so far I am highly unimpressed and quite frankly appalled by the Media's favoritism of it.

If you know of any really cool demos of what Natal can do that might sway my opinion, please do point me to the link.

sure:

i do not have any demo's that you may not have already seen yourself. but here is DR. mark's view of Natal

Dr Marks had been speaking on a recent Engadget Show, and was asked about Sony possibly investing in a 3D camera like Natal.

We tried a lot of different 3D cameras. I love the 3D camera technology; personally, I like the technology part of it. We worked closely with our game teams at what it would enable, and it enabled making the things we already did with EyeToy more robust, but it didn’t really enable as many new experiences as what we were hoping it would enable, so it made the things we were already able to do a little bit more robust — which is good — but it adds a lot of cost and it didn’t enable some of the other experiences we wanted to achieve.”

the point i think is through his experience and other's like him and Anton they have a very good grasp what the technology can and cannot do, quite many time's their code they create for the technology in tech. demo's go into the SDK so it's not like their experience is not valid.

example:

Dr Marks also stated that the 3D cameras struggle to track in poor lighting. The PlayStation Eye Camera has the same problem, and this is why you can find those glowing spheres on Move.

it's the point is both Microsoft and Sony both Know it's the software that will drive the technology

sony has 32+ 3rd party developer's signed up for Playstation move game's development and I would say Microsoft is also has the same if not more 3rd party development studio's for Natal.

So I do not think software will be an issue with both Natal or Move it will I think would be the Quality of that software. what we Have seen with Move already with Socom 4 and EYEPET which for me i think is one of the best example's of move control for software sofar. that i have seen .

with Natal alot has been closed door's but i would say if Wii and Move are anything to go by Natal should have some fantantastic result's for software.

 

 



I AM BOLO

100% lover "nothing else matter's" after that...

ps:

Proud psOne/2/3/p owner.  I survived Aplcalyps3 and all I got was this lousy Signature.

forevercloud3000 said:

I geuss I can agree with your two points. From a distance, MS surely has made Natal look like the next big thing. Yet what do you think of the product so far?

What do I think of the Natal product? Well its really hard to form a conclusive opinion on it. However I will try my best to relay what I think Natal is all about and what strengths/weaknesses etc I can forsee.

What Natal is:

Natal is attempting to be a very complete home media interface. It is important to think of it as both a hands free way to interface with the various Xbox 360 multimedia functions between music, movies, photo display, TV on demand etc as much as it is a games interface. However the games interface is probably more an extension of existing titles which use a regular controller as seen by Fable 3's touch system which was inspired by Ico as much as it is for a more casual style gaming interface on its own in games like 100 vs 1 which can reach a broad audience. It is not really a core gamer interface and core games can easily do without it when you think of many of your typical RPG, FPS etc style games.

Do I think Natal will be successful?:

It will achieve some success at minimum. The level of investment Microsoft is making towards the platform and the fact that its likely to be bundled with at least one important Xbox 360 SKU will ensure it will achieve a relatively decent level of exposure to most people. What I cannot anticipate is how the whole package will work together and what shortcomings there will be in both the voice and physical camera interface because Microsoft has kept information about how exactly the whole device works and how people will use it a secret. Without knowing how the whole system of software + hardware interact I cannot guess how people might react to the interface.

What Natal isn't:

Natal isn't attempting to be a finely tuned and accurate interface down to the mm^3 of precision. It isn't attempting to replace the standard controller but to compliment and extend the overall experience, especially when thinking of core games. Its best described as a broad stroke brush when comparing it to Move which is designed as a finely tuned instrument and the Wiimote is somewhere in between. Its not a hardware interface and people ought to stop thinking about it in terms of the hardware which enables it and think about the software which makes the system work. Its a first generation product, much of the precision of the Move etc won't be available until the 2nd generation product is released where they can significantly increase the capture rate and resolution in all 4 dimensions when you include time.

@Jeorc:

Move is complicated hardware with simplified software whereas Natal is more simplified hardware and more complicated hardware. Natually a software company would make Natal and a hardware company would make Move which is precisely why they diverge on the interface design. Im not saying that Move software design is bad, im saying that Sony simplified the software by making the hardware do more of the legwork so they didn't have to create as complicated software.



Tease.

joeorc said:
forevercloud3000 said:
@Joe

I don't feel im passing unfair judgement on Natal or Move. I'm simply saying that I/WE haven't seen much of Natal proving......well anything really as a Hardcore gaming device.

I mean seriously, do you find Ricochet ground breaking? I sure don't. I'm just going by what both companies have shown so far. Maybe in due time Natal will show some good titles for it, but so far I am highly unimpressed and quite frankly appalled by the Media's favoritism of it.

If you know of any really cool demos of what Natal can do that might sway my opinion, please do point me to the link.

sure:

i do not have any demo's that you may not have already seen yourself. but here is DR. mark's view of Natal

Dr Marks had been speaking on a recent Engadget Show, and was asked about Sony possibly investing in a 3D camera like Natal.

We tried a lot of different 3D cameras. I love the 3D camera technology; personally, I like the technology part of it. We worked closely with our game teams at what it would enable, and it enabled making the things we already did with EyeToy more robust, but it didn’t really enable as many new experiences as what we were hoping it would enable, so it made the things we were already able to do a little bit more robust — which is good — but it adds a lot of cost and it didn’t enable some of the other experiences we wanted to achieve.”

the point i think is through his experience and other's like him and Anton they have a very good grasp what the technology can and cannot do, quite many time's their code they create for the technology in tech. demo's go into the SDK so it's not like their experience is not valid.

example:

Dr Marks also stated that the 3D cameras struggle to track in poor lighting. The PlayStation Eye Camera has the same problem, and this is why you can find those glowing spheres on Move.

it's the point is both Microsoft and Sony both Know it's the software that will drive the technology

sony has 32+ 3rd party developer's signed up for Playstation move game's development and I would say Microsoft is also has the same if not more 3rd party development studio's for Natal.

So I do not think software will be an issue with both Natal or Move it will I think would be the Quality of that software. what we Have seen with Move already with Socom 4 and EYEPET which for me i think is one of the best example's of move control for software sofar. that i have seen .

with Natal alot has been closed door's but i would say if Wii and Move are anything to go by Natal should have some fantantastic result's for software.

 

 

See this is what I am talking about, Natal is standing on nothing but hypathetical theorizations about it. Most ones with no hard details or evidence, instead just saying "Natal is Great. Natal can be do big things!" Never any hard examples like the Wii or Move.

Move for instance can be applied to many if not all current games on PS3 because it adapts so well with current controls. Games like Socom 4 using it's pinpoint accuracy for aiming. THen there is news of Killzone 3 being fully 3D, combined with Move making it even more life like. Thats a REAL verbal demonstration of a tech's capabilities.



      

      

      

Greatness Awaits

PSN:Forevercloud (looking for Soul Sacrifice Partners!!!)

Squilliam said:
forevercloud3000 said:

I geuss I can agree with your two points. From a distance, MS surely has made Natal look like the next big thing. Yet what do you think of the product so far?

What do I think of the Natal product? Well its really hard to form a conclusive opinion on it. However I will try my best to relay what I think Natal is all about and what strengths/weaknesses etc I can forsee.

What Natal is:

Natal is attempting to be a very complete home media interface. It is important to think of it as both a hands free way to interface with the various Xbox 360 multimedia functions between music, movies, photo display, TV on demand etc as much as it is a games interface. However the games interface is probably more an extension of existing titles which use a regular controller as seen by Fable 3's touch system which was inspired by Ico as much as it is for a more casual style gaming interface on its own in games like 100 vs 1 which can reach a broad audience. It is not really a core gamer interface and core games can easily do without it when you think of many of your typical RPG, FPS etc style games.

Do I think Natal will be successful?:

It will achieve some success at minimum. The level of investment Microsoft is making towards the platform and the fact that its likely to be bundled with at least one important Xbox 360 SKU will ensure it will achieve a relatively decent level of exposure to most people. What I cannot anticipate is how the whole package will work together and what shortcomings there will be in both the voice and physical camera interface because Microsoft has kept information about how exactly the whole device works and how people will use it a secret. Without knowing how the whole system of software + hardware interact I cannot guess how people might react to the interface.

What Natal isn't:

Natal isn't attempting to be a finely tuned and accurate interface down to the mm^3 of precision. It isn't attempting to replace the standard controller but to compliment and extend the overall experience, especially when thinking of core games. Its best described as a broad stroke brush when comparing it to Move which is designed as a finely tuned instrument and the Wiimote is somewhere in between. Its not a hardware interface and people ought to stop thinking about it in terms of the hardware which enables it and think about the software which makes the system work. Its a first generation product, much of the precision of the Move etc won't be available until the 2nd generation product is released where they can significantly increase the capture rate and resolution in all 4 dimensions when you include time.

@Jeorc:

Move is complicated hardware with simplified software whereas Natal is more simplified hardware and more complicated hardware. Natually a software company would make Natal and a hardware company would make Move which is precisely why they diverge on the interface design. Im not saying that Move software design is bad, im saying that Sony simplified the software by making the hardware do more of the legwork so they didn't have to create as complicated software.

that is absolute poppycock. and you know it...lol

yea i know your trying to be funny, well your not trying you are being funny. but you and I both know that is pure pubbish because if anything Sony's software this generation has been top notch. The same With Microsoft's own releases.

so for saying Microsoft's software is somehow more complicated than Sony's is kind of "well we use multi core processor development" and the way we program Multi-core development is more complicated than the other system. Even though the other system is also Multi-core processor development!



I AM BOLO

100% lover "nothing else matter's" after that...

ps:

Proud psOne/2/3/p owner.  I survived Aplcalyps3 and all I got was this lousy Signature.

I have to agree with the OP.

I see move possibilities for Move than Natal.



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