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Forums - General - BNP would offer non-white Britons £50,000 to leave UK, says Nick Griffin

Kantor on 02 May 2010
Khuutra said:
Kantor said:

If segregation had never happened, desegregation would never have happened, and there would have been no hatred in the first place. Yes, there was hatred to begin with. But segregation continued the hatred. It bred hatred in the children who would then grow up and become furious when segregation ended.

It's like a heroin addiction. If you never take it, you're fine. If you take it, but don't stop, you die. If you take it, then stop, then things won't be fantastic, worse than if you'd never started, but they'll be better than if you kept taking it.

So I stand by my opinion that segregation is racist, because it does cause harm.

Getting back to the topic at hand, the BNP policy doesn't cause harm, breed hatred or propagate hatred. So, it's not racist.

You can't follow up "there would have been no hatred in the first place" with "yes there was hatred to begin with".

Segregation did not continue the hatred - it put a muzzle on it. It was ab ad thing, but not because of the activity it caused toward hatred. It was because of the expectations that it created in terms of sovereignty and the rights of the people involved.

The bigger issue here is that you're predicating "racism" on causing harm. That's not what racism is.

rac·ism

  <a href="http://dictionary.reference.com/audio.html/lunaWAV/R00/R0009800" target="_blank"><img src="http://sp.dictionary.com/dictstatic/g/d/speaker.gif" border="0" alt="racist pronunciation" /></a> [rey-siz-uhm] Show IPA
–noun
1.
a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2.
a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3.
hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.
See point 2.
A law can be racist without causing harm if it's founded on racist doctrine or a racist way of looking at the world. You have admitted that the doctrine is based on a racist viewpoint, ergo it is racist regardless of whether or not it causes harm. The idea is predicated ont he idea that ethnic Britons are the ones who should be living in Britain (and that others should go back to the lands of their ancestors), and it propagates the idea that ethnic Britons are the only "true" citizens of Britain.
It is racist. It is racist. It is racist.
EDIT: The formatting problem has ruined my post, I apologize.

Very well, you win.

By that definition of racism, which is the commonly accepted definition. I wouldn't agree, but that's an issue of morality.



(Former) Lead Moderator and (Eternal) VGC Detective

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SamuelRSmith on 02 May 2010
highwaystar101 said:
Seece said:
It IS racist, ignoring the fact it's a racist party completely. It's still a racist thing. I bet if you asked them most would probably admit if it wasn't for getting a bollocking.

I don't know much about politics, I don't claim to either. Some people should follow suit and stop acting as if they know ANYTHING about politics and getting into debates with people that do, just end up looking foolish when they don't know how to respond correctly

Haha, that's me when Kasz, SamuelRSmith or Mafoo (the three that seem to understand politics) take me on.

I don't know anything about politics, my political views are erratic to say the least. But sometimes people like me that don't know anything about politics have to get involved because politics affects everyone.

My ears are burning.

I wanted to see inside, so I lit a Q-tip.



phinch1 on 02 May 2010
highwaystar101 said:
Carl2291 said:
Khuutra said:
Carl2291 said:
Khuutra said:
Carl2291 said:

I guess we just have differing opinions on what is "racist" then.

Fair enough.

So you contend that the phrase "Britain would be better off if it were only composed of ethnic Britons" is not racist?

Nope.

But then again, he never said that... So yaknow.

You are retreating behind semantics that do not hold up under any level of scrutiny. The man is willing to spend 9,000,000,000 a year to get people who are not ethnic Britons to leave the country. He couldn't be saying it any louder if he tatoo'd it on his forehead.

I'm not retreating behind anything... Unless facts can be retreated behind? If something IS happening, i would say it is you just assuming things.

He never said what you are saying he said. You are just assuming that he implies it.

And he is willing to spend 9,000,000,000 a year to give people a chance to help a country they were decended from.

So a doctor with German lineage will be paid to help Germany? The German health service don't need our help.

He doesn't want them to help their country*, he just wants them to leave. It's blindingly obvious.

...

Also, why on Earth is it their responsibility to help the country that they are descended from? A British person with Portuguese lineage is not Portuguese, they are British. what is the difference between me going to Portugal to work and them. Why am I not offered £50,000 and they are, even though we are equally British?

Ther German Doctor is given the "CHOICE" that if he wants to go home he can, If he chooses not too, then thats fine,
Nick Griffin said it would be ok aslong as they contribute to the society and what better was as a Doctor?

sounds ok to me....



highwaystar101 on 02 May 2010
phinch1 said:
highwaystar101 said:
Carl2291 said:

I'm not retreating behind anything... Unless facts can be retreated behind? If something IS happening, i would say it is you just assuming things.

He never said what you are saying he said. You are just assuming that he implies it.

And he is willing to spend 9,000,000,000 a year to give people a chance to help a country they were decended from.

So a doctor with German lineage will be paid to help Germany? The German health service don't need our help.

He doesn't want them to help their country*, he just wants them to leave. It's blindingly obvious.

...

Also, why on Earth is it their responsibility to help the country that they are descended from? A British person with Portuguese lineage is not Portuguese, they are British. what is the difference between me going to Portugal to work and them. Why am I not offered £50,000 and they are, even though we are equally British?

Ther German Doctor is given the "CHOICE" that if he wants to go home he can, If he chooses not too, then thats fine,
Nick Griffin said it would be ok aslong as they contribute to the society and what better was as a Doctor?

sounds ok to me....

Do you understand the situation? The doctor is British, he is not German. I don't know why you thought he was German. He will be asked to leave because his grandparents were from Germany.

The fact that the doctor, as a 100% British person, has been singled out because of his lineage and asked to leave is just outright plain racist.

And as I quoted in an earlier post form the BNP policies, the BNP would not be ok as long as they contribute to society as they plan to close all immigration. The only case would be special circumstances, which Nick Griffin defined by using the Japanese physicist analogy, which is such a violation of basic rights against an immigrant (forcing them to do one job and not allowing them a choice) it's laughable.

And Nick griffin has said repeatedly that he does not want immigrants working for the NHS, in fact his plan is to get all immigrant workers in the NHS out. It's pretty much one of the major forces of the BNP healthcare policy.



highwaystar101 on 02 May 2010
SamuelRSmith said:
highwaystar101 said:
Seece said:
It IS racist, ignoring the fact it's a racist party completely. It's still a racist thing. I bet if you asked them most would probably admit if it wasn't for getting a bollocking.

I don't know much about politics, I don't claim to either. Some people should follow suit and stop acting as if they know ANYTHING about politics and getting into debates with people that do, just end up looking foolish when they don't know how to respond correctly

Haha, that's me when Kasz, SamuelRSmith or Mafoo (the three that seem to understand politics) take me on.

I don't know anything about politics, my political views are erratic to say the least. But sometimes people like me that don't know anything about politics have to get involved because politics affects everyone.

My ears are burning.

I wanted to see inside, so I lit a Q-tip.

Ah, yes, well how many times have you owned me in political debates? I would say it is almost in the dozens.



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phinch1 on 02 May 2010
highwaystar101 said:
phinch1 said:
highwaystar101 said:
Carl2291 said:

I'm not retreating behind anything... Unless facts can be retreated behind? If something IS happening, i would say it is you just assuming things.

He never said what you are saying he said. You are just assuming that he implies it.

And he is willing to spend 9,000,000,000 a year to give people a chance to help a country they were decended from.

So a doctor with German lineage will be paid to help Germany? The German health service don't need our help.

He doesn't want them to help their country*, he just wants them to leave. It's blindingly obvious.

...

Also, why on Earth is it their responsibility to help the country that they are descended from? A British person with Portuguese lineage is not Portuguese, they are British. what is the difference between me going to Portugal to work and them. Why am I not offered £50,000 and they are, even though we are equally British?

Ther German Doctor is given the "CHOICE" that if he wants to go home he can, If he chooses not too, then thats fine,
Nick Griffin said it would be ok aslong as they contribute to the society and what better was as a Doctor?

sounds ok to me....

Do you understand the situation? The doctor is British, he is not German. I don't know why you thought he was German. He will be asked to leave because his grandparents were from Germany.

The fact that the doctor, as a 100% British person, has been singled out because of his lineage and asked to leave is just outright plain racist.

And as I quoted in an earlier post form the BNP policies, the BNP would not be ok as long as they contribute to society as they plan to close all immigration. The only case would be special circumstances, which Nick Griffin defined by using the Japanese physicist analogy, which is such a violation of basic rights against an immigrant (forcing them to do one job and not allowing them a choice) it's laughable.

And Nick griffin has said repeatedly that he does not want immigrants working for the NHS, in fact his plan is to get all immigrant workers in the NHS out. It's pretty much one of the major forces of the BNP healthcare policy.

ok The doctor with german "lineage" is given the choice. its up to him weather he take up n the offer, and he probably wont, good for him, I just though your example was pretty crap



highwaystar101 on 02 May 2010
phinch1 said:
highwaystar101 said:
phinch1 said:
highwaystar101 said:
Carl2291 said:

I'm not retreating behind anything... Unless facts can be retreated behind? If something IS happening, i would say it is you just assuming things.

He never said what you are saying he said. You are just assuming that he implies it.

And he is willing to spend 9,000,000,000 a year to give people a chance to help a country they were decended from.

So a doctor with German lineage will be paid to help Germany? The German health service don't need our help.

He doesn't want them to help their country*, he just wants them to leave. It's blindingly obvious.

...

Also, why on Earth is it their responsibility to help the country that they are descended from? A British person with Portuguese lineage is not Portuguese, they are British. what is the difference between me going to Portugal to work and them. Why am I not offered £50,000 and they are, even though we are equally British?

Ther German Doctor is given the "CHOICE" that if he wants to go home he can, If he chooses not too, then thats fine,
Nick Griffin said it would be ok aslong as they contribute to the society and what better was as a Doctor?

sounds ok to me....

Do you understand the situation? The doctor is British, he is not German. I don't know why you thought he was German. He will be asked to leave because his grandparents were from Germany.

The fact that the doctor, as a 100% British person, has been singled out because of his lineage and asked to leave is just outright plain racist.

And as I quoted in an earlier post form the BNP policies, the BNP would not be ok as long as they contribute to society as they plan to close all immigration. The only case would be special circumstances, which Nick Griffin defined by using the Japanese physicist analogy, which is such a violation of basic rights against an immigrant (forcing them to do one job and not allowing them a choice) it's laughable.

And Nick griffin has said repeatedly that he does not want immigrants working for the NHS, in fact his plan is to get all immigrant workers in the NHS out. It's pretty much one of the major forces of the BNP healthcare policy.

ok The doctor with german "lineage" is given the choice. its up to him weather he take up n the offer, and he probably wont, good for him, I just though your example was pretty crap

How is it crap? It's bang on. The guy is being picked out for his German lineage and asked to leave. It's just plain racist. Yes he can accept it, and yes he can turn it down. But that doesn't change the fact that he's being asked to leave for having foreign lineage.

If I was having a house party for VGChartz members and you turned up, how would you feel if I asked you to leave because I found out you had some German in you? You don't have to leave, but man would you be offended by me. Most people would call my actions racist, most would call it unacceptable.

 



Kantor on 02 May 2010
highwaystar101 said:

How is it crap? It's bang on. The guy is being picked out for his German lineage and asked to leave. It's just plain racist. Yes he can accept it, and yes he can turn it down. But that doesn't change the fact that he's being asked to leave for having foreign lineage.

If I was having a house party for VGChartz members and you turned up, how would you feel if I asked you to leave because I found out you had some German in you? You don't have to leave, but man would you be offended by me. Most people would call my actions racist, most would call it unacceptable.

 

A different example:

You're having this house party. The German doctor comes along. You say to him "Hey, how would you like £50,000 to go to your 4th cousin's party down the street? You can't come back, though. Tell his guests none of them can come either" (It's really the second part that's the disgusting one here).

He may very well say "No, I like this party, no amount of money will make me go to my 4th cousin's house, I don't know or like the guy!"

To which you'd reply "Fine, I don't really like you, but you make the party fun, so you can stay" (obviously, you wouldn't TELL him that you don't like him, though)



(Former) Lead Moderator and (Eternal) VGC Detective

highwaystar101 on 02 May 2010
Kantor said:
highwaystar101 said:

How is it crap? It's bang on. The guy is being picked out for his German lineage and asked to leave. It's just plain racist. Yes he can accept it, and yes he can turn it down. But that doesn't change the fact that he's being asked to leave for having foreign lineage.

If I was having a house party for VGChartz members and you turned up, how would you feel if I asked you to leave because I found out you had some German in you? You don't have to leave, but man would you be offended by me. Most people would call my actions racist, most would call it unacceptable.

 

A different example:

You're having this house party. The German doctor comes along. You say to him "Hey, how would you like £50,000 to go to your 4th cousin's party down the street? You can't come back, though. Tell his guests none of them can come either" (It's really the second part that's the disgusting one here).

He may very well say "No, I like this party, no amount of money will make me go to my 4th cousin's house, I don't know or like the guy!"

To which you'd reply "Fine, I don't really like you, but you make the party fun, so you can stay" (obviously, you wouldn't TELL him that you don't like him, though)

a. Offering him money to leave makes your example far more racist than mine, because it's no longer a situation of "can you please leave, we don't want you", now it's a case of "we really don't want you here because you are related to Germans, I'll even pay you to leave".

b. So does the payment somehow justify racism? Does the payment somehow justify picking one person out because his grandparents are form another country? If I try to incite hatred to people with foreign lineage, will I get off scott free if I can say in court "yeah, I incited hatred towards this one group of people, but I also offered to pay them"?

 

Also, you persistently keep calling the doctor German. He's not German, he's British. It's just that he's related to Germans. Think about that for a minute. Is it right to say one British person should be asked to leave and another shouldn't?



Carl on 02 May 2010
highwaystar101 said:
Carl2291 said:
highwaystar101 said:

So who's telling you? Bradford council or it's residents?

If it was the council you have the right to be outraged, if you are being told by the residents then they have no right to tell you that you can't. Even if it means you get beaten up, you are still allowed to celebrate St. Georges day, and if you do get beaten up then those who did it will be arrested for breaking the law.

Well, the pubs weren't allowed to open on the day due to risk of "upsetting certain groups".

So i'm guessing it was the council.

So? I'm an Aston Villa fan, when we play Birmingham City most pubs that attract football fans in Birmingham are closed to decrease the risk of violence, they are not telling us that we can't celebrate a victory.

It's a sensible pre-caution and it's the same deal with this case. No-one has said you can't celebrate. Is one pub closed? Then go to one that's open. You are given every right to celebrate St. Georges, the council have not said that you as an individual can't.

Aston Villa and Birmingham City fans are rivals. Are you saying English people and Foreigner's are also rivals... So English people can't celebrate St. Georges Day in Bradford? If so... Why are we allowed to celebrate the other patron saints? Why are thousands of Muslims able to celebrate Ramadan in Bradford with no trouble?

I want to ask you this - How come you can celebrate St Patricks Day, St Andrews Day and St Stevens Day, all as a National Holiday, with no trouble, in England... But you are unable to celebrate St Georges Day in case of upsetting non-English people in a major English city?

And why the hell isn't St. Georges Day a national holiday? ¬_¬

AND... Why does "So and so was born in England" mean they are English?

If a dog is born in a stable is it then a horse?