By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Microsoft Discussion - NATAL : video showing on screen pointer display using hands

megaman79 said:
CommonMan said:
Adobo said:
these Natal haters are feasting whenever they see a thread about Natal. lol

I think it's replaced Halo as the new "cool thing to hate on" Thank god for MS products, where would all the misplaced angst go in the world if not for them?

Uhhh, Apple products? I hate Apple. 

 

I would feel pretty bad for Nintendo fans too.



Around the Network
CommonMan said:
Adobo said:
these Natal haters are feasting whenever they see a thread about Natal. lol

I think it's replaced Halo as the new "cool thing to hate on" Thank god for MS products, where would all the misplaced angst go in the world if not for them?

You mean it's replaced ps3 as the "cool thing to hate on"/...



When the dude stands sideways and still manages to bounce the ball (@0.45) even though the avatar barley responds to his movement, or is even close to the ball, made me go "huh?" I get that there has to be a somewhat bigger hitbox on the avatar, because realism never works, but that just looked weird. Like "you ever wonder what the bottom of an avatar's shoe lookes like"-weird.



STEKSTAV said:
When the dude stands sideways and still manages to bounce the ball (@0.45) even though the avatar barley responds to his movement, or is even close to the ball, made me go "huh?" I get that there has to be a somewhat bigger hitbox on the avatar, because realism never works, but that just looked weird. Like "you ever wonder what the bottom of an avatar's shoe lookes like"-weird.

Got the same impression.  It was almost as if your avatar didn't hit the ball, it just hit the "back" of the screen.  Hopefully it doesn't work that way on 2 player.

@theprof00

Well, duh.  We're supposed to blindly support a product that in every video so far has tracking and latency issues.  We can't critisize it whatsoever.  That would be hating on it.  Oh, it IS okay to take shots at Move, though. 



ZenfoldorVGI said:
God, it didn't look very precise. Let's hope that either the person playing it is a n00b, or they enhance it a bit before release.

PS: I hate motion controls.


Anyone that starts playing something they never played before is considered a noob anyway.  It's a new game and no one isn't going to start off like a pro.



Around the Network
Herbie95 said:
Natal: Only does everything, including making you look like a retard flailing around in front of a screen.

hey don't get angitatated by SELNOR,he is like this.you might too agitated and  get a ban.so don't anger urself because of him,

 

OP: first time 2 player,looking good hope they showed other games.

 

Although they could be saving for E3 and Halo will come too.



JaggedSac said:

It actually shows head tracking is working as well. And how the fuck can you guys tell it is laggy, the camera is shaky as fuck and you can barely see the people's limbs.

And no, that was not a pointer based on the hand.  Although a pointer would be trivial to implement with Natal.

Well, it looked like a pointer based on the x-y position of the hand to me, even though it seemed to map a very wide real space to a small area of the screen around the virtual "joystick" used to select the play mode. Unless it's gesture-based with hand swipes, and the pointer gravitates toward the center by itself.

If I remember well from the specs it looked like it had not enough resolution (or you could multisample a lot, but get bad lag) to map a proper real-time pointer with pixel-scale accuracy, but it should be good enough for elements of GUIs like this.



"All you need in life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure." - Mark Twain

"..." - Gordon Freeman

WereKitten said:
JaggedSac said:

It actually shows head tracking is working as well. And how the fuck can you guys tell it is laggy, the camera is shaky as fuck and you can barely see the people's limbs.

And no, that was not a pointer based on the hand.  Although a pointer would be trivial to implement with Natal.

Well, it looked like a pointer based on the x-y position of the hand to me, even though it seemed to map a very wide real space to a small area of the screen around the virtual "joystick" used to select the play mode. Unless it's gesture-based with hand swipes, and the pointer gravitates toward the center by itself.

If I remember well from the specs it looked like it had not enough resolution (or you could multisample a lot, but get bad lag) to map a proper real-time pointer with pixel-scale accuracy, but it should be good enough for elements of GUIs like this.

It looked like the bolded to me.

And the XY accuracy of Natal is around 3mm at 2m away from camera, based on the PrimeSense specs.  This would of course change if the FOV of Natal is different from the PrimeSense specs.  3mm is quite enough to make a real-time pointer, but it would not be pixel perfect.  I probably couldn't hold my hand still enough for pixel perfect anyway, as even the slightest shake would be displayed :)



theprof00 said:
CommonMan said:
Adobo said:
these Natal haters are feasting whenever they see a thread about Natal. lol

I think it's replaced Halo as the new "cool thing to hate on" Thank god for MS products, where would all the misplaced angst go in the world if not for them?

You mean it's replaced ps3 as the "cool thing to hate on"/...

Also true. Amazing what one device can do!



JaggedSac said:

It looked like the bolded to me.

And the XY accuracy of Natal is around 3mm at 2m away from camera, based on the PrimeSense specs.  This would of course change if the FOV of Natal is different from the PrimeSense specs.  3mm is quite enough to make a real-time pointer, but it would not be pixel perfect.  I probably couldn't hold my hand still enough for pixel perfect anyway, as even the slightest shake would be displayed :)

It's really so short that I'm not sure about it being pointer or gesture based.

Anyway 3mm at 2m is the resolution of the camera. But the real resolution you could use for pointing with your hand would be the resolution of node positioning after the software processes the camera images to the 3d model. That's obviously quite a bit rougher, and we actually have some old numbers. I can't link to the original article, but didn't the main Natal dev talk to New Scientist about positioning limbs within a 4cm cube? That's probably the ballpark of your node resolution per frame.

Let's be optimistic and say that he meant a cube of 4 cm^3 volume and not a cube of 4cm per side. That would mean about 1.6cm linear resolution, ie if you map the screen to the position of your hand in a meter wide space, you get (1280/100)*1.6 pixel = about 20 pixel of error.

You can average n samples, of course, increasing the resolution by a sqr(n) factor, but adding lag for about n-1 frames. Thus you won't probably see anything better than 15pixels if we assume these are the numbers.



"All you need in life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure." - Mark Twain

"..." - Gordon Freeman