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Forums - Gaming - How does Nintendo manage to do it so often

kjj4t9rdad on 19 April 2010
Scoobes said:
kjj4t9rdad said:
Scoobes said:
So many different reasons:

- Nintendo create games by concentrating and nailing the gameplay and game mechanics first to ensure they're easily accessible to a large audience. Everything else is secondary.
- Reusing well-known and popular characters for the past 20 yrs. Everyone knows Mario and Yoshi etc. so why not use them to sell a game in another genre?
- Linked to the last point, superb advertising and marketing.
- Not over-saturating your franchises with too many titles in too short space of time. Unlike Call of Duty and other franchises, you don't get that many Mario, Zelda, Kart, Smash Bros. games in a gen and Nintendo let the games sell for as long as possible.
- Linked to the first point: the games are targeted at the largest demographic possible meaning a much larger customer base.

What?  There are way more mario games than Call of Duty games.  I would be willing to bet that there are more mario games this gen than CoD has in its entire history.  I could be wrong, if I am, I'm sure the number is very close.

Lots of games with Mario as a character and selling point, yes, hence the comment about reusing popular characters. Now look at the gameplay mechanics of each of those games:

  • Mario Galaxy: 3D platformer
  • New Super Mario Bros.: 2D platformer
  • Mario Kart: Weapons based Kart racer
  • Super Smash Bros. : Non-traditional beat em up
  • Mario & Sonic @ the Olympics/Winter Olympics: OK 2 games, but family sports titles with range of different gameplay options
  • Super Paper Mario: 2D/3D mix

Now look at Call of Duty:

  • CoD 1-3 & WaW: World War 2 pseudo realistic FPS
  • COD4 & MW2: Modern setting pseudo realistic FPS

Which is more likely to oversaturate its fanbase? Although there a lot of Mario games, the gameplay and mechanics in each is different to the next. And CoD is now an annual release making things worse for that particular franchise.

 

Yes the game mechanics are different, but they are Mario games.  Whether you over-saturate the actual game or the character makes little difference.  The vast majority of people don't look at Mario Galaxy as a 3D platformer and NSMB as a 2D platformer, they look at them as Mario games

 



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Arius Dion on 19 April 2010
kjj4t9rdad said:
Scoobes said:
kjj4t9rdad said:
Scoobes said:
So many different reasons:

- Nintendo create games by concentrating and nailing the gameplay and game mechanics first to ensure they're easily accessible to a large audience. Everything else is secondary.
- Reusing well-known and popular characters for the past 20 yrs. Everyone knows Mario and Yoshi etc. so why not use them to sell a game in another genre?
- Linked to the last point, superb advertising and marketing.
- Not over-saturating your franchises with too many titles in too short space of time. Unlike Call of Duty and other franchises, you don't get that many Mario, Zelda, Kart, Smash Bros. games in a gen and Nintendo let the games sell for as long as possible.
- Linked to the first point: the games are targeted at the largest demographic possible meaning a much larger customer base.

What?  There are way more mario games than Call of Duty games.  I would be willing to bet that there are more mario games this gen than CoD has in its entire history.  I could be wrong, if I am, I'm sure the number is very close.

Lots of games with Mario as a character and selling point, yes, hence the comment about reusing popular characters. Now look at the gameplay mechanics of each of those games:

  • Mario Galaxy: 3D platformer
  • New Super Mario Bros.: 2D platformer
  • Mario Kart: Weapons based Kart racer
  • Super Smash Bros. : Non-traditional beat em up
  • Mario & Sonic @ the Olympics/Winter Olympics: OK 2 games, but family sports titles with range of different gameplay options
  • Super Paper Mario: 2D/3D mix

Now look at Call of Duty:

  • CoD 1-3 & WaW: World War 2 pseudo realistic FPS
  • COD4 & MW2: Modern setting pseudo realistic FPS

Which is more likely to oversaturate its fanbase? Although there a lot of Mario games, the gameplay and mechanics in each is different to the next. And CoD is now an annual release making things worse for that particular franchise.

 

Yes the game mechanics are different, but they are Mario games.  Whether you over-saturate the actual game or the character makes little difference.  The vast majority of people don't look at Mario Galaxy as a 3D platformer and NSMB as a 2D platformer, they look at them as Mario games

 

Not true at all.



Bet between Slimbeast and Arius Dion about Wii sales 2009:


If the Wii sells less than 20 million in 2009 (as defined by VGC sales between week ending 3d Jan 2009 to week ending 4th Jan 2010) Slimebeast wins and get to control Arius Dion's sig for 1 month.

If the Wii sells more than 20 million in 2009 (as defined above) Arius Dion wins and gets to control Slimebeast's sig for 1 month.

kjj4t9rdad on 19 April 2010
Arius Dion said:
kjj4t9rdad said:
Scoobes said:
kjj4t9rdad said:
Scoobes said:
So many different reasons:

- Nintendo create games by concentrating and nailing the gameplay and game mechanics first to ensure they're easily accessible to a large audience. Everything else is secondary.
- Reusing well-known and popular characters for the past 20 yrs. Everyone knows Mario and Yoshi etc. so why not use them to sell a game in another genre?
- Linked to the last point, superb advertising and marketing.
- Not over-saturating your franchises with too many titles in too short space of time. Unlike Call of Duty and other franchises, you don't get that many Mario, Zelda, Kart, Smash Bros. games in a gen and Nintendo let the games sell for as long as possible.
- Linked to the first point: the games are targeted at the largest demographic possible meaning a much larger customer base.

What?  There are way more mario games than Call of Duty games.  I would be willing to bet that there are more mario games this gen than CoD has in its entire history.  I could be wrong, if I am, I'm sure the number is very close.

Lots of games with Mario as a character and selling point, yes, hence the comment about reusing popular characters. Now look at the gameplay mechanics of each of those games:

  • Mario Galaxy: 3D platformer
  • New Super Mario Bros.: 2D platformer
  • Mario Kart: Weapons based Kart racer
  • Super Smash Bros. : Non-traditional beat em up
  • Mario & Sonic @ the Olympics/Winter Olympics: OK 2 games, but family sports titles with range of different gameplay options
  • Super Paper Mario: 2D/3D mix

Now look at Call of Duty:

  • CoD 1-3 & WaW: World War 2 pseudo realistic FPS
  • COD4 & MW2: Modern setting pseudo realistic FPS

Which is more likely to oversaturate its fanbase? Although there a lot of Mario games, the gameplay and mechanics in each is different to the next. And CoD is now an annual release making things worse for that particular franchise.

 

Yes the game mechanics are different, but they are Mario games.  Whether you over-saturate the actual game or the character makes little difference.  The vast majority of people don't look at Mario Galaxy as a 3D platformer and NSMB as a 2D platformer, they look at them as Mario games

 

Not true at all.

 I disagree

 



RageBot on 19 April 2010
nordlead said:
RageBot said:
nordlead said:

Yes.

Why can't Nintendo have better creative talent than anyone else? You claim that if Nintendo never existed that Mario would still be around with minor tweaks, but if that was the case how come no other company has come close to creating that 2D Mario Platforming? LBP sucks in comparison to Mario for 2D platforming and it is Mario's closest competition this generation being 10m back. The level editor is great, but LBP lacks the challenge with not enough badguys (and the stupid buttons to kill them) and floaty physics. If it was all marketing and business strategy, then Sony must be horrible at those things, despite Sony being a very successful company that has convinced consumers that their overpriced electronics are better than the competition.

all those big games aren't going to end up at 20-30m because Nintendo knows how to advertise. It is because they know how to make the games that people love.

How much NSMBW would've sold if it was the exact same game, gameplay-wise, but with different characters, brand, yet still on the Wii?

You falsely assume that Mario = Sales, but that isn't the case. If it was, every Mario game would be at 20m, but there are plenty which aren't. Heck, only a few months ago people were claiming that NSMBWii wouldn't even break 11m within the first calandar year. Also, Sticking Mario into a Metroid game wouldn't make sales rise, and in fact most people would probably say forget about it. I'm sure Nintendo does get a fair number of sales by the people who buy everything they produce, but the same can be said about any good company. Advertising has an affect on sales, I won't deny that. But a great game with good advertising will sell. A bad game with great advertising won't. A great game with poor advertising will flounder, and a bad game with bad advertising just flat out won't sell. You can advertise & paint a turd all you want, but in the end it is still a turd. Nintendo did not produce turds to sell 13m units and counting.

1. You didn't answer my question.

2. That's because games that reach 20m always do so based on word of mouth, and if they are accessible by a wide audience, I agree that even if there was a Mario-Metroid it still wouldn't have sold that much more than "ordinary" Metroid, it at all, simply because, for it's genre, Metroid is a bigger brand, however, a Marioid would've still sold a lot, if it was a good game.



Bet with Dr.A.Peter.Nintendo that Super Mario Galaxy 2 won't sell 15 million copies up to six months after it's release, the winner will get Avatar control for a week and signature control for a month.

nordlead on 19 April 2010
RageBot said:
nordlead said:
RageBot said:

How much NSMBW would've sold if it was the exact same game, gameplay-wise, but with different characters, brand, yet still on the Wii?

You falsely assume that Mario = Sales, but that isn't the case. If it was, every Mario game would be at 20m, but there are plenty which aren't. Heck, only a few months ago people were claiming that NSMBWii wouldn't even break 11m within the first calandar year. Also, Sticking Mario into a Metroid game wouldn't make sales rise, and in fact most people would probably say forget about it. I'm sure Nintendo does get a fair number of sales by the people who buy everything they produce, but the same can be said about any good company. Advertising has an affect on sales, I won't deny that. But a great game with good advertising will sell. A bad game with great advertising won't. A great game with poor advertising will flounder, and a bad game with bad advertising just flat out won't sell. You can advertise & paint a turd all you want, but in the end it is still a turd. Nintendo did not produce turds to sell 13m units and counting.

1. You didn't answer my question.

2. That's because games that reach 20m always do so based on word of mouth, and if they are accessible by a wide audience, I agree that even if there was a Mario-Metroid it still wouldn't have sold that much more than "ordinary" Metroid, it at all, simply because, for it's genre, Metroid is a bigger brand, however, a Marioid would've still sold a lot, if it was a good game.

1) No one can answer that question. What if it was New Wii Bros? or some other cool looking thing that took off? Nintendo could have a brand new IP on their hands that sold 20m. It could have sold even more, but with a slower start. The underlying game mechanics being great with different sprites would still create good word of mouth advertising. Would it have sold less? maybe. Would it have sold more? maybe. They use Mario because people associate similar kinds of gameplay which they love.

This whole debate makes me want to dig up the "marioboy" threads that were posted back when Galaxy was catching up to Sunshine.




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Grimes on 19 April 2010

Wii Sports wasn't bundled in Japan and it was still one of the best selling games of all time.



Anyone can guess. It takes no effort to throw out lots of predictions and have some of them be correct. You are not and wiser or better for having your guesses be right. Even a blind man can hit the bullseye.

jarrod on 19 April 2010
RageBot said:

How much NSMBW would've sold if it was the exact same game, gameplay-wise, but with different characters, brand, yet still on the Wii?

Oh, there's no doubt at this point that Nintendo's brands have a strength and life of their own.  But really, why is that?  Why isn't there a Sonic or Crash game that can even come close to Mario sales, like there were in each franchise's heyday?  Why have Nintendo brands weathered decades at the top, while few others seemingly can?



RageBot on 19 April 2010
jarrod said:
RageBot said:

How much NSMBW would've sold if it was the exact same game, gameplay-wise, but with different characters, brand, yet still on the Wii?

Oh, there's no doubt at this point that Nintendo's brands have a strength and life of their own.  But really, why is that?  Why isn't there a Sonic or Crash game that can even come close to Mario sales, like there were in each franchise's heyday?  Why have Nintendo brands weathered decades at the top, while few others seemingly can?

Because it's a brand that established itself, both by being a pioneer and inovator and both by sustaining incredible value and fun factor.

Nintendo are an amazing company, did I ever say anything other than that? But the reason that they sell for so long is for the exact same reason that dragon quest sell this amazing for so long (in japan), sustaining high quality and not saturating their markets.

I never said that Mario (and other Nintendo games) sell solely because of their name, but being called "Mario" gives the game incredible boost from the get go, and momentum that would've taken other games years to build



Bet with Dr.A.Peter.Nintendo that Super Mario Galaxy 2 won't sell 15 million copies up to six months after it's release, the winner will get Avatar control for a week and signature control for a month.

blunty51 on 19 April 2010

They also have the backing of millions of gamers from the 80s.



jarrod on 19 April 2010
RageBot said:
jarrod said:
RageBot said:

How much NSMBW would've sold if it was the exact same game, gameplay-wise, but with different characters, brand, yet still on the Wii?

Oh, there's no doubt at this point that Nintendo's brands have a strength and life of their own.  But really, why is that?  Why isn't there a Sonic or Crash game that can even come close to Mario sales, like there were in each franchise's heyday?  Why have Nintendo brands weathered decades at the top, while few others seemingly can?

Because it's a brand that established itself, both by being a pioneer and inovator and both by sustaining incredible value and fun factor.

Nintendo are an amazing company, did I ever say anything other than that? But the reason that they sell for so long is for the exact same reason that dragon quest sell this amazing for so long (in japan), sustaining high quality and not saturating their markets.

I never said that Mario (and other Nintendo games) sell solely because of their name, but being called "Mario" gives the game incredible boost from the get go, and momentum that would've taken other games years to build

Truth be told, the secret to Nintendo's success is quality control.  Mario could've faltered just as easily as Crash or Sonic, at any point, the real reason it hasn't is chiefly due to Nintendo's extraordinarily high development standards and exacting degree of polish.  Nintendo also tends not to release multiple rapid succession sequels, they really nurture brands like few other companies in the industry.  There's a real palpable difference in their corporate culture, and that comes through in their software.

Yeah, at this point that gives a brand like Mario a huge upfront push.  But by the same token, I'd say if NSMBWii were a far lower quality title with the same brand attached, it wouldn't be hitting the same high benchmarks either.