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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Can Metal Gear Solid 4, Killzone 2, and FF XIII turn things around?

eugene said:
Im sure if the xbox had sold 80 million units of hardware also, the Fable numbers would have been at least slightly higher. Your retarded if you dont believe that

Sorry, but if microsoft hit 80 million units with any XBOX console (Will never happen) Fable would never come close to FF numbers. The XBOX fanbase was never interested in RPG's unless they have guns in them (Mass Effect).



I'll take the case!!!

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Gamerace said:
Harvey Birdman said:
Gamerace said:
I think Sony fans are putting too much weight on these titles. They will be big, important titles for the PS3 but none of these scream 'saviour' to me. Specifically:

Killzone 2: I feel this game is WAY overhyped, like the original. I fear they have now obligated themselves to spend so much time on the graphics that gamepaly will only be average, much like the original. This will sell well, but nothing that will create momentum.

FFXIII: The FF series peaked at VII. This will sell very well, especially in Japan and this, White Knight and MGS4 may give the PS3 much needed life in Japan, and to a lesser extent Europe, but won't be able to overcome the momentum of the 360 in America.

MGS4: What's the most MGS has ever sold? Really? Again this will be strong, but to think it can make the difference is just kidding yourself.

Now GTA exclusive, that'd have been huge. But with the extra downloadable content the 360 version will appear superior.

End of the day, I think these games will help the PS3 get a larger lead in Japan and Europe over the 360, but they'll never take back NA this generation. PS3 may pass the 360 but it'll be near the end of this cycle, much like how the Xbox overtook the GC.

13 million+ which is 7 million more then the competition. (Splinter Cell) This accounts for all MGS and SC games.

When you need to know what Sony needs to turn things around you need to know what there up against.

MS has Fable 2 (Fable 2.6 million ) against FFXIII (FFXII 4.95 million)

Lets not forget the granddaddy of all racing games, Gran Turismo 5. GT can sell a guaranteed 6 million units.

Although these numbers don't give anyone the reason to say that they are system sellers (except for GT) These games, compared to the competition, sell more. The PS2 market will see that these high profile games will never hit the 360. Some won't care, but the ones who do care will buy a PS3. That will be a large chunk of former PS2 owners.


 Okay MGS, and MGS2 sold about 6m each, MGS3 less than 4m.  Not bad at all, but compared to the up to 15m GTA or Mario or FF games sale, it's not much at all. Certainly not enough to save a 3rd place system.  If Nintendo's games like Mario Kart, SSBM and SMS couldn't save the GC dispite selling about 6m each, what chance does a game like MGS have to do so for a third place system? In Japan, maybe. NA - no way. MGS4 will be very lucky to hit 2m lifetime IMO. Unless it goes to... oh no I'm not starting that debate again.


This game has been Hyped more than any PS3 game out right now. In fact, it is appearing in commercials for the PS3, and it has been delayed for at least 6 months. We have seen what MGS can sell on the XBOX (Terrible) Kojima and Konami would have to be high on the rocks to put MGS 4 on the 360. This game can sell two million on hype alone. People forget that most of the people who have a PS3 got it for Metal Gear.   



I'll take the case!!!

I've never seen a generation where 3 games turned around a console's sales around. I've seen where a solo big game helps out a console, but the console already had to be doing well for that to happen, such as FF7 for the PS1.

As I've stated on this kinda topic numerous times before, if a select few exclusives could win a generation then N64 with SM64, Goldeneye 007, and OOT would have crushed the PS1 in to millions of pieces of oblivion.

We all know that didn't happen so to answer your question, no. What it takes to win a generation is a few things. One, price. Price is very important. Price is the key to selling any product in any market. Having a good mass market price is not opitional, but necessary. It's not about having the lowest price, just a good mass market price. If it was just about having the lowest price then GC would have won, which once again it didn't. Normally in the gaming arena $300 is the cap for mass market acceptable pricing, but I think it's extended a little higher in recent years.

The second thing to win a generation is a good QUANTITY of games. I've actually never seen a generation won where the person had nothing but quality games. PS2 and PS1 had more crap games than good games. To win a generation you need a large library of games in turn with a key titles mixed in. Can't be all crap of course.

And finally the most important thing to winning a generation is brandname. If you aren't the one in the mainstream, then how do you ever expect to win. For instance Windows isn't the best OS. We all know this. Yet it still has about 90% dominance of the market. Why? It's got the mainstream brandname. Doesn't matter what anyone else does it'll win, despite it's inferiority. Same thing with the Ipod. It's not about being the technically "best" product, it's about being the most known product. ANd it's hard to gain a brandname, but easy if your competition laxes.

This craze you see in America for the Wii, is due to it's large brandname in the mainstream. Despite many people's stating of it being a fad, do you know how hard it is to kill a brandname at it's heightening. It's almost impossible. Silly fanboy ideals can't stop Wii's brandname in America nor Japan, despite Japan's recent recession in sales. Brandname is hard to kill but can be done. Nintendo did this with their DS. Many state the console and handheld markets don't cross but you'd be surprise. Do you know singlehandedly the DS switched dominant brandname in gaming market from Playstation to Nintendo. DS was just so huge it just did itself. And becuase PSP had the playstation brand in its name, it took the entire brand down with it, despite PSP not doing that bad at all. Brandname shifts can sometime be slow and gradual, and other times they can happen over a holiday season, as it did with DS.

I mean many wonder why Wii exploded so fastly, well it's thx to the DS. Without DS, Wii could not have succeeded.

Understand those 3 things, and most importantly brandname, will tell you why 3 games can't simply turn a generation around. That's why Halo 3 couldn't turn 360 around at all. Wii has a pretty domineering branndame in most major regions such as America(although 360 has been able to at least get itself noticeable in the market mainly due to the early release, UK(same case as America for 360, France, Germany(same case as America for 360), Japan, Australia(same case as America for 360), and other regions. REally the only place NIntenod hasn't setup a dominating brand in is Spain, Italy, and New Zealand. ANd of course the parts of the world it hasn't released in such as China, although I see big things for Wii in China.

It'll take a lot to take down the Wii this generation. I'm not saying it's impossible, but Wii has to gain some kinda share in brandname this generation. First things first is getting to America, the place if it doesn't act will get 3rd place.



Nintendo 64 games- Golden eye, Perfect Dark, Mario 64, Zelda OOT, Mario Party, Pokemon, Smash Bros, Mario Kart 64, Super Mario 64. These games are considered classics and some of the best games of all time yet couldnt put it above PS.

Game cube- Mario Sunshine, Smash Bros melee, Pikmin, Resident Evil, Resident Evil 0, Zelda Wind Waker, Metroid Prime, Metroid Prime 2, Mario Kart, Animal Crossing, Final Fantasy CC, Metal Gear Solid snake eater. Maybe not the best games of all time but triple A games for sure. Couldnt get it out of third place.

PS3 - FF 13, Killzone 2, GT 5, Resistence 2, Motorstorm 2, Metal Gear Solid 4, and nobi nobi boy. - great line up with lots of potential.

Xbox 360- Lost Odyssey, Ninja Gaiden 2, Banjo Kazooie threeie, Fable 2, Splinter Cell Conviction, - again, great line up with lots of potential.

I predict that the trends have already been set and wont change too dramatically

xbox and Ps3 will do about the same in Europe, Xbox will beat PS3 2-1 every week, and PS3 will beat xbox 15-1 every week and the Wii will sell over a million units WW every month



eugene i think thas where we got it wrong thinking sony depending on those games for its sales thas the complete oppsite of how sony do things........thasss more like how 360 does with its halo and nintendo does with its mario sony never had that kinda game plan .........EVER it alwayss had a great balance support great example would be ps2 and that is what they are TRYING to achieve with the ps3 once done sky is the limit.

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eugene said:
Nintendo 64 games- Golden eye, Perfect Dark, Mario 64, Zelda OOT, Mario Party, Pokemon, Smash Bros, Mario Kart 64, Super Mario 64. These games are considered classics and some of the best games of all time yet couldnt put it above PS.

Game cube- Mario Sunshine, Smash Bros melee, Pikmin, Resident Evil, Resident Evil 0, Zelda Wind Waker, Metroid Prime, Metroid Prime 2, Mario Kart, Animal Crossing, Final Fantasy CC, Metal Gear Solid snake eater. Maybe not the best games of all time but triple A games for sure. Couldnt get it out of third place.

PS3 - FF 13, Killzone 2, GT 5, Resistence 2, Motorstorm 2, Metal Gear Solid 4, and nobi nobi boy. - great line up with lots of potential.

Xbox 360- Lost Odyssey, Ninja Gaiden 2, Banjo Kazooie threeie, Fable 2, Splinter Cell Conviction, - again, great line up with lots of potential.

I predict that the trends have already been set and wont change too dramatically

xbox and Ps3 will do about the same in Europe, Xbox will beat PS3 2-1 every week, and PS3 will beat xbox 15-1 every week and the Wii will sell over a million units WW every month

 Excellent post with deductive reasoning.  Basically what I explained in short in my long post haha.  Always good to see unbias post with good factual reasonign to go along with it haha.  Don't see that much anymore on gaming sites.  Kudos to Eugene.



Sorry, I meant the xbox will beat the ps3 2-1 every week in America and the PS3 will beat the xbox 15-1 every week in Japan



FFXII sold 5 million on a 100+ million installed base; I doubt it will pass 3.5m on the PS3 installed base even if it launches in 2009.



I think it's unpredictable until late 08 where the PS3 will end.Personally i don't underestimate the popularity of the Playstation brand.This and the next pricereduction will move more hardware than any of the titles mentioned above.



Quality for Life

I don't think those games can turn it around for Sony. As people mentioned if it was simply about great games then N64 would have destroyed PS1. But I think the playstation brand name is still so powerful that it is very likely things will eventually turn around for Sony. There are two things that will help it achieve this. First, the unreliability of PS2. There are many PS2 owners whose PS2s are going to die in the next few years. When they do there is a strong possibility they will decide to upgrade to a PS3 because of their loyalty to the playstation brand (although backwards compatibility being removed hasn't helped Sony in this regard). The second thing is that there are many PS2 owners waiting for the PS3 to become affordable before they upgrade. To these people playstation is all they know. However, it may be very difficult for PS3 to defeat Wii even if it is able to overcome 360. By the time PS3 is affordable enough for all those PS2 owners waiting to upgrade Wii might be so far ahead and have established such a strong brand name of its own that it would be too late for PS3