lol.  Yes, even that Sumo made Mario Kart clone is more hardcore than Guitar Hero.  And it's "know", not "no".  As in, you clearly know **** all about everything to do with english.

Anyway, you're stalling and diverting.  Once more, a legitimate source on this 180ms claim?  Put up or shut up, we're all waiting...

I do care about hardcore games but thats not the only thing I care about.

Somewhere here is a thread with a study that 75% of wii owners are former ps2 owners and that to me proves what i told you earlier in this thread wich you choose to dismiss.

Wii owners do care about graphics but not at the expense of gameplay or too big leaps, if all gamers cared only about the graphical leaps then PS2 wouldnt have won last gen they would have gone Gamecube or even more so Xbox evne if the graphicl leap wasnt as big as it is this time it still was more then twice as powerful then the ps2.

Most console gamers care about graphical leaps but as history has shown time and time again if the graphical leap is too big the console will probably loose wich means they care about graphical leaps up too a point it also shows that whats more important is gameplay innovations and games wich is why Wii is winninig. It did a big enough graphical leap but did heaps of leaps in gameplay and it has the games (mainly Nintendo ones) so conlclusion gameplay inovations + Nintendo games coupled with 2x the graphical leap from last gen was the sweet spot.

If Nintendo can find that sweetspot for next gen they will follow and it will be easier for them to do so since alot of theese gamers will follow the net iteration of the games they loved this gen.

Still waiting for you to post the 180 ms lag wich you continue to talk about.

actually, many people are doing just that. women bought the wii just for wii fit. tons of people bought the wii just for mario kart. lapsed gamers are buying the wii just for new super mario bros wii. i know several people that plan on buying a wii just for monster hunter tri.

and that is what i mean. people will buy a new console if it has exclusives they want that aren't on other consoles. i agree with happysquerral on this, where he brings up that people just care about the games, not the tech behind those games that made them possible.

Since when do better graphics mean that the gameplay get's worse? The wii graphics are just a bit better than xbox, whereas the games are nothing new whatsoever. Compare Mario Karts double dash and Mario Karts wii - what's the difference? Bugger all. Now compare Killzone 1 & 2 - massive difference. Compare Redfaction 2, an arcade shooter, to Resistance 2, a next gen arcade shooter - huge difference. Now look at the Resident Evil 4 on wii anf GC - same damn game, only difference is the pad.

If people want an improved game expereince which isn't just about a waggle-pad, then they wouldn't have bothered with the wii.

How is wii gameplay innovative? It's not 1:1 motion and the games are almost the damn same. Party game, arcade racer, or sports game. Wow, so innovative. You can't just make claims and not back them up, something I've been trying to do with the wii lag time, but unfortunatly the articles gone/altered/whatever, but Digital Foundary have just made a way of monitoring wii games so fingers crossed they'll have the answer out soon enough.

It doesnt automaticly mean that but clearly theese companies have been focusing more on graphics and less on actuall gameplay but thats not to say they didnt focus at all on gameplay.

The improved gaming experience comes with the more immersive motion controlls and it´s a new way of playing games that us real gamers have been waiting for the past 10 years, its called evolution and it was about time it happened. I am sorry if you cant see it but I can and alot of others can and so can Sony and MS and that is why they are following suit with their motion controlls. You are pretty much in the minoroty there about motion controlls not even your HD console manufacturers are agreeing with you, if they were they would be launching their owm motion controlls this fall,

Still waiting for you to post confirmation about 180ms lag???

How have these companies been clearly focusing more on graphics and less on gameplay? Looking at your game colletction you've played bugger all of next gen games and I can tell you that saying the gameplay hasn't changed is total ****.

Point proven - the controller is the main point of the wii, and how on earth is it a new way of playing games? It's just a giant joystick with no base. There is no feedback to the player which immediatly breaks all immersion, mainly in games like Zelda or sports games where you hit something and feel nothing/pad isn't stopped by striking an object.Not to mention the pad doesn't even track movements!! It just uses basic gestures so you may as well be pressing X as it has as much relation to a 360 spin as does a little pad twirl.

As for you "real gamers", how can you clim you are a real gamer when all you want is a waggle pad with less than 1:1 motion, and the AI in the games are dire, not to mention HOW HAVE THE GAMES IMPROVED? A new pad doesn't mean the games are better, in fact they have not improved at all! The graphics, AI, and game style have not changed int he slightest - they pretty much have just released GC titles with a different pad. The pad maybe standard, but Gears of War has done more for gaming than the wii has as it brought about a new comabt system, or how about Oblivion, World of Warcraft etc etc, games which have actually changed the approach to the genre, instead of remaking old games and giving them a new pad.

As for Natal, it's an eyetoy, and a total gimmick. Move looks far better, with a 22ms response time as well as full 1:1 motion mapping, not to mention, the console doesn't have ****** hardware, so it'll be able to implement it properly, such as Oblivion with full control, instead of pad gestures.

You are not a real gamers - your a nostalgic fanboy who has lost all sense of quality. And clearly you can't read if you are still bugging me for the 180ms response time.

How have these companies been clearly focusing more on graphics and less on gameplay? Looking at your game colletction you've played bugger all of next gen games and I can tell you that saying the gameplay hasn't changed is total ****.

Point proven - the controller is the main point of the wii, and how on earth is it a new way of playing games? It's just a giant joystick with no base. There is no feedback to the player which immediatly breaks all immersion, mainly in games like Zelda or sports games where you hit something and feel nothing/pad isn't stopped by striking an object.Not to mention the pad doesn't even track movements!! It just uses basic gestures so you may as well be pressing X as it has as much relation to a 360 spin as does a little pad twirl.

As for you "real gamers", how can you clim you are a real gamer when all you want is a waggle pad with less than 1:1 motion, and the AI in the games are dire, not to mention HOW HAVE THE GAMES IMPROVED? A new pad doesn't mean the games are better, in fact they have not improved at all! The graphics, AI, and game style have not changed int he slightest - they pretty much have just released GC titles with a different pad. The pad maybe standard, but Gears of War has done more for gaming than the wii has as it brought about a new comabt system, or how about Oblivion, World of Warcraft etc etc, games which have actually changed the approach to the genre, instead of remaking old games and giving them a new pad.

As for Natal, it's an eyetoy, and a total gimmick. Move looks far better, with a 22ms response time as well as full 1:1 motion mapping, not to mention, the console doesn't have ****** hardware, so it'll be able to implement it properly, such as Oblivion with full control, instead of pad gestures.

You are not a real gamers - your a nostalgic fanboy who has lost all sense of quality. And clearly you can't read if you are still bugging me for the 180ms response time.

You clearly dont understand or dont want to understnd anything outside of your own preference, you have been given answers to all your questions by several members and just ignored them as you have with my post and just keep harping on this imagined 180ms lag. You clearly dont want the answers just an excuse to troll on the wii and its users.

Before i leave you I leave you with this to think about, if the wii is so unresponsive and laggy how can move be better when inital reports say its lagier then the wii? I am sure the final product will be improved but you clearly show your ignorance when glorifying a techdemo wich so far has shown more lag then the wii controller and then bash the wiimote.

There would not be a move controller this fall if it wasnt for the wii and thats how gaming progressed from the wiimote someone needed to take the first step so Sony could have a chance to improve it, if they actually do improve it is still up in the air but as the wiimote is 3-4 years old when move comes out it would be a disgrace if it wasnt an improvement.

Now i am done with you untill you prove your claims about 180ms lag untill you can prove your claims I will assume you are talking out of your ass the same way you claimed 180ms lag.

What the steaming **** are you on about??

My last post didn't mention the wii latency, so how did you conclude I'm harping on about it?!
And what initial reports saying Move's latency is worse than the wiis??? Firstly that means you have an exact figure for wii's latency, which you don't have, and secondly, Sony have said the latency is 22ms, but with everything else included, it can reach 130ms as reported by DF on a tech demo. But that's a tech demo, not the final product, unless you're from the future.

And stop digressing like you have OCD. You totally ignored how I said that the wii games haven't done anything for this generation, and you've just written a load of made up BS. Now if you will, how about you actually tell me how the wii games have changed game genres or is it just "LOL moving pad is FUNZ!"?

This is one example how the wiimote has improved gaming for a serious gamer:

To put it basically, pointing is more accurate, precise and natural. As a parallel, the Wiimote has more lag than the PS3 pad, but there's no doubt that you can point and shoot at opponents far more quickly in the Wii rendition of Call of Duty 4, for example.