MikeB said: rocketpig said: No one here has cheapshotted you or launched a personal attack on you, Mike. If you're going to so adamantly argue the power of Cell and Blu-ray in every thread, you better be ready to back up those positions and take the flack when you post blatantly false information and pass it off as truth. Anyway, enough of this. The thread doesn't need to turn into a "point at MikeB and laugh" fiasco. Let's heed his wishes and get back on topic, everyone. OK according to you Blu-Ray and Cell offer no benefits for gaming, many expert games developers and myself disagree. I have backed up every statement I made with 3rd party examples. So you think this is all bullshit, I don't agree. We have a difference of opinion, Let's leave it at this instead of making cheapshots claiming I am spreading "blatantly false information". IMO as a mod you should try to stay above this all.

For crying out loud, I'm not cheapshotting you and my mod status has nothing to do with "staying above this". This thread has been clean and to my knowledge, no one has violated a single rule of the VGC forums. We're calling you out for posting a link that had a Blu-ray image vs. the equivalent DVD image and passing them both off as DVD to prove how superior the PS3 is to the 360 as a media player. Sorry but in my book, that's "blatantly false", doubly so once you tried to backpedal by saying "well, the image was downscaled". As a self-proclaimed tech guy, you know that doesn't cut it.

Admit to your mistakes instead of crying wolf and playing the victim here.

MikeB said: OK according to you Blu-Ray and Cell offer no benefits for gaming, many expert games developers and myself disagree. I have backed up every statement I made with 3rd party examples.

I'll gladly converse with you about the technical issues right here. 

BD offers an advantage in some cases: more storage. If you need more storage and you can't do anything to make better use of your current storage, plus your game design doesn't lend itself to multiple-disc releases, you'll enjoy the storage advantage of BD. But may 'professional developers', like Jaffe, have said BD had no place on the PS3. Because it doesn't offer him an advantage.

What about the Cell architecture makes you think it applies better to gaming than, say, the Xbox 360's processor? The SPEs supply floating point power, a lot of it, but much of it can't be used for game engines. From statements you make, you probably have the same background as me with experience in Computer Engineering, compilers and game engine development, I'd be very interested in what you think about several issues game engines will have when using the SPEs, and what you think about the frame-rendering advantages of a multicore design vs the Cell.

So let's have a friendly chat about it here in this thread.

TheBigFatJ said: MikeB said: OK according to you Blu-Ray and Cell offer no benefits for gaming, many expert games developers and myself disagree. I have backed up every statement I made with 3rd party examples. I'll gladly converse with you about the technical issues right here. BD offers an advantage in some cases: more storage. If you need more storage and you can't do anything to make better use of your current storage, plus your game design doesn't lend itself to multiple-disc releases, you'll enjoy the storage advantage of BD. But may 'professional developers', like Jaffe, have said BD had no place on the PS3. Because it doesn't offer him an advantage. What about the Cell architecture makes you think it applies better to gaming than, say, the Xbox 360's processor? The SPEs supply floating point power, a lot of it, but much of it can't be used for game engines. From statements you make, you probably have the same background as me with experience in Computer Engineering, compilers and game engine development, I'd be very interested in what you think about several issues game engines will have when using the SPEs, and what you think about the frame-rendering advantages of a multicore design vs the Cell. So let's have a friendly chat about it here in this thread.

I'm not entirely sure, but from what he said, his experience from the Cell is mostly hearsay, talking to developers, and writing some technical articles. He never claimed to be a programmer as far as I've seen. I've also seen a number of claims which make me think he has zero to little experience in programming.

 

TheBigFatJ said: Nighteyes_1981 said: Once the PS3 reaches $300 I think we'll see sales ramp up quite a bit. Then it will be competitive in sales with the 360, if not beating it, on a monthly basis. Until then I expect the 360 to outsell the PS3 by a fair margin almost every month. Aside from major game launches and such. It's hard to say whether or not the PS3 will ever pass the 360 in world wide sales. It's possible, but time is quickly running out. The $300 price point would be losing a ton of money for Sony at each console sold. It's already losing a lot at $400, and there is nothing more they can cut from the system. It looks like a lot of numbers have been adjusted lately. Can anyone do a fresh tally of how the PS3 vs Xbox 360 have been doing since the race began? [edit] I'll do it. These are for Xbox 360 vs PS3 for the week ending: Nov 03: Nighteyes_1981 said: Once the PS3 reaches $300 I think we'll see sales ramp up quite a bit. Then it will be competitive in sales with the 360, if not beating it, on a monthly basis. Until then I expect the 360 to outsell the PS3 by a fair margin almost every month. Aside from major game launches and such. It's hard to say whether or not the PS3 will ever pass the 360 in world wide sales. It's possible, but time is quickly running out. The $300 price point would be losing a ton of money for Sony at each console sold. It's already losing a lot at $400, and there is nothing more they can cut from the system. It looks like a lot of numbers have been adjusted lately. Can anyone do a fresh tally of how the PS3 vs Xbox 360 have been doing since the race began? [edit] I'll do it. These are for Xbox 360 vs PS3 for the week ending: Week Xbox 360 PS3 Nov 03 197,613 145,106 Nov 10 201,260 199,554 Nov 17 241,430 229,085 Nov 24 391,395 337,833 Dec 01 361,108 351,345 Total 1,392,806 1,262,923 It looks like the 360 hasn't lost a week in a long time, but it still has only a relatively small lead (about 10%) over the PS3. It *is* selling better than the PS3 world wide, though.

 I never stated any timeline for the PS3 to reach $300.  Only that once it does it'll see a large sales increase.  As for losing money, it's a case of 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' for Sony right now.  If they maintain their current price point they'll surely continue to lag far behind Nintendo and Microsoft in sales.  Thus, making it difficult to sell enough software to offset hardware losses.  Compounded with the likelyhood that developers are increasingly likely to jump ship the longer they stay in a poor sales position.  If they cut prices, they lose more money on hardware, but they get more hardware sales, and more software sales in turn.  In addition to keeping developers on board.  The developers are the key point here.  Sony needs to keep them on the PS3 or it's doomed for sure.  If it takes dropping to $300, they'll do it because the other option is to abandon the PS3 entirely.  Who knows how long it'll take for them to drop to that price point.  If they wait too long, they'll never be able to make up any ground.  I give them six months tops before they drop it to $300.

rocketpig said: MikeB said: rocketpig said: No one here has cheapshotted you or launched a personal attack on you, Mike. If you're going to so adamantly argue the power of Cell and Blu-ray in every thread, you better be ready to back up those positions and take the flack when you post blatantly false information and pass it off as truth. Anyway, enough of this. The thread doesn't need to turn into a "point at MikeB and laugh" fiasco. Let's heed his wishes and get back on topic, everyone. OK according to you Blu-Ray and Cell offer no benefits for gaming, many expert games developers and myself disagree. I have backed up every statement I made with 3rd party examples. So you think this is all bullshit, I don't agree. We have a difference of opinion, Let's leave it at this instead of making cheapshots claiming I am spreading "blatantly false information". IMO as a mod you should try to stay above this all. For crying out loud, I'm not cheapshotting you and my mod status has nothing to do with "staying above this". This thread has been clean and to my knowledge, no one has violated a single rule of the VGC forums. We're calling you out for posting a link that had a Blu-ray image vs. the equivalent DVD image and passing them both off as DVD to prove how superior the PS3 is to the 360 as a media player. Sorry but in my book, that's "blatantly false", doubly so once you tried to backpedal by saying "well, the image was downscaled". As a self-proclaimed tech guy, you know that doesn't cut it. Admit to your mistakes instead of crying wolf and playing the victim here.

Jesus christ man, how many times have I admitted the mistake and said sorry? Do you really need to drag on with this?

I'm sorry that I pasted the wrong image in 1 of my comments, OK? But the DVD vs DVD image comparison should have been just as interesting. Some people said they didn't notice much difference with the good quality Blu-Ray and DVD image played on the PS3 (due the images both been downscaled to sub PAL resolution!, Hence why I didn't immediately notice this myself).

MikeB said: rocketpig said: MikeB said: rocketpig said: No one here has cheapshotted you or launched a personal attack on you, Mike. If you're going to so adamantly argue the power of Cell and Blu-ray in every thread, you better be ready to back up those positions and take the flack when you post blatantly false information and pass it off as truth. Anyway, enough of this. The thread doesn't need to turn into a "point at MikeB and laugh" fiasco. Let's heed his wishes and get back on topic, everyone. OK according to you Blu-Ray and Cell offer no benefits for gaming, many expert games developers and myself disagree. I have backed up every statement I made with 3rd party examples. So you think this is all bullshit, I don't agree. We have a difference of opinion, Let's leave it at this instead of making cheapshots claiming I am spreading "blatantly false information". IMO as a mod you should try to stay above this all. For crying out loud, I'm not cheapshotting you and my mod status has nothing to do with "staying above this". This thread has been clean and to my knowledge, no one has violated a single rule of the VGC forums. We're calling you out for posting a link that had a Blu-ray image vs. the equivalent DVD image and passing them both off as DVD to prove how superior the PS3 is to the 360 as a media player. Sorry but in my book, that's "blatantly false", doubly so once you tried to backpedal by saying "well, the image was downscaled". As a self-proclaimed tech guy, you know that doesn't cut it. Admit to your mistakes instead of crying wolf and playing the victim here. Jesus christ man, how many times have I admitted the mistake and said sorry? Do you really need to drag on with this? I'm sorry that I pasted the wrong image in 1 of my comments, OK. But the DVD vs DVD image comparison should have been just as interesting. Some people said they didn't notice much difference with the good quality Blu-Ray and DVD image played on the PS3 (due to being downscaled to sub PAL resolution!, Hence why I didn't immediately notice this myself).

Fair enough. I have no real beef with you, just the fact that you seem oblivious to others' arguments while regurgitating the same lines over and over again, no matter the rebuttal from other posters.

Just try not to call out others for going off topic when you so often do it yourself. Anyway, that's enough of this thread for me. I have some stupid CSS to code before I finish today. 

@ rocketpig

Like I stated I don't do that, I always respond politely if spoken to politely (nomatter if I agree or don't agree), I only complain if discussions become personally tainted.

my predictions viva my thread:


December totals:

Wii: 3,344,709 units

360: 1,996,272 units

PS3: 2,068,598 units



Life to Date totals:

Wii: 18,904,709 units

360: 16,136,272 units

PS3: 8,798,598 units

@ NJ5

Yes I can program and have some hands on experience with the Cell, but IMO that doesn't make me a programmer. I've written a few simple programs in the distant past, but frankly I find it boring to page through dozens or worse hundreds or more pages of code trying to solve an unexpected bug, but I do respect the persistance and results my coding friends have achieved, I rather find the bugs from an end user perspective like I have been a software tester in the past.

IMO let's not discuss me, but rather the topic on hand.

Nighteyes_1981 said: Once the PS3 reaches $300 I think we'll see sales ramp up quite a bit. Then it will be competitive in sales with the 360, if not beating it, on a monthly basis. Until then I expect the 360 to outsell the PS3 by a fair margin almost every month. Aside from major game launches and such. It's hard to say whether or not the PS3 will ever pass the 360 in world wide sales. It's possible, but time is quickly running out.

Dude, let me tell you something.

The 360 has not outsold the ps3 nor has the ps3 outsold the X360. UNtil we get NPD numbers we cannot judge on anything.

 

Right now they are selling the same.