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Forums - Sales Discussion - Wii Sales? A wakeup call?

naznatips on 21 November 2007
Wojtas said:
MontanaHatchet said:
As much as I hate to get into this argument...

A lot of you are saying that the Wii's first year software and 360's second year software should not be compared.

Well, that doesn't seem to a problem for hardware, as long as the Wii is winning.
Montana, that was kinda dumb on your account. I mean how many consoles can be produced during a year and then sold is one thing, but when comparing game sales it would be wise to take into account how many games are actually out. One year against two years in these terms means hell of a lot. Ya dig? 

 

 

No, the problem is people compare their software sales directly as if the games cost the same amount of time and money to develop.  They don't.  Not even close.  



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Dolla Dolla on 21 November 2007
Kwaad said:

If you want the honest answer, I would say the 360, just because sony just restructed, and dumped even MORE money into the PS3, for whatever reason. Sony is not considering it a loss yet. The 360, on the verge of looking profitable, seems to be at biggest risk, because of hardware losses, and what not, however due to the success of Halo3, pulled it out of the hole. I would have the say the Wii will be the first to go this gen.




Good for a laugh at least.



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BenKenobi88 on 21 November 2007
Kwaad said:
 

If you want the honest answer, I would say the 360, just because sony just restructed, and dumped even MORE money into the PS3, for whatever reason. Sony is not considering it a loss yet. The 360, on the verge of looking profitable, seems to be at biggest risk, because of hardware losses, and what not, however due to the success of Halo3, pulled it out of the hole. I would have the say the Wii will be the first to go this gen.


 Ok...so you try to explain why you think the 360 will fail...and then you say the Wii will be the first to go...without explaining at all?

Do you realize even IF the Wii's popularity died soon, like end of next year let's say...that Nintendo has already raked in a ton of money, and could do plenty to keep it going?  Nintendo isn't even taking risks...it's just chugging along...if the Wii started to do poorly, we don't even know what Nintendo would try...they could lower prices, get more games out, who knows.



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TheBigFatJ on 21 November 2007
MontanaHatchet said:
As much as I hate to get into this argument...

A lot of you are saying that the Wii's first year software and 360's second year software should not be compared.

Well, that doesn't seem to a problem for hardware, as long as the Wii is winning.

To be completely fair, perhaps we should compare the first year of the Wii's hardware sales to the first year of the Xbox 360's hardware sales.



Kwaad on 21 November 2007
dtewi said:
Kwaad said:
naznatips said:

You are comparing the Wii's first year software sales to the 360's second year software sales in a country where there are more 360s sold to try and say the Wii is in trouble. Then, you go on to use Mario (a game that sells with legs) to Halo (a game that sells first week and has short legs) to show the Wii is in trouble. There is something truly special in this comparison Kwaad.

Let's start with Mario. Mario 64 sold about 6.6 million lifetime in North America. Halo 2 sold about the same. Halo 3 is currently selling under Halo 2's NA sales at this point in it's life. SMG blew away Mario 64's week 1 sales in NA. Yet you have come to the brilliant conclusion that Super Mario Galaxy is a failure while Halo 3 is a booming success... for the record, both are booming successes at this point.

Second, attach ratio means much less than profit and overall sales. The 360 is a second year system that is experiencing massive losses. The Wii is a first year system that's experiencing huge amounts of success and profit. Now, let's break down all the things that affect profit. We have two main factors. Sales, and cost of development. In your infinite wisdom you seem to have chosen to ignore the second factor here. The cost of development for a 360 game is much more than a Wii game. Therefore, the Wii game needs to sell much less to make money than the 360 game. The cost of development for a PS3 game is even more than a 360 game. A PS3 game has to sell much much more than a Wii or 360 game to make a profit.

So, if we are looking at profit: Nintendo makes a profit on hardware. Nintendo makes a profit on software. dozens of games have made profit on the Wii, despite it only being in its first year and software quality being questionable at best. Dozens of games have made profit on the 360 because it's in its second year and has a lot of quality titles which have sold very well, but the system overall has been a huge dip in the red for Microsoft other than the very very very small profit they pulled in last quarter from massive Halo 3 sales.

Ah but here is the fun part. How many games do you think have made a profit on the PS3 Kwaad? How much of anything has made a profit on the PS3? It's okay for the Wii to have a lower attach rate because it has a higher userbase and cost/time of development is much lower, but how about the PS3? The monstrous system which requires 2 years minimum to make a game and 3-4 years to make a good game (FFXIII). The system that has the highest development costs of the 3 by far. The system that still only has 2 million sellin games on it after a full year on the market. Less than the Gamecube did. Huge budget titles like Ratchet & Clank and Heavenly Sword and Lair are flopping. Each of which probably costs more than double what it cost to make SMG and yet combined have sold less than half what SMG did in 2 weeks.

What system is really in trouble here Kwaad?


If you want the honest answer, I would say the 360, just because sony just restructed, and dumped even MORE money into the PS3, for whatever reason. Sony is not considering it a loss yet. The 360, on the verge of looking profitable, seems to be at biggest risk, because of hardware losses, and what not, however due to the success of Halo3, pulled it out of the hole. I would have the say the Wii will be the first to go this gen.

Why?

 


 Due to hardware limitations, the Wii will never be truely able to do what it was designed to do, and becuase of that a Wii2, or something else is likely to come in the next 3-4 years, while the PS3, and 360, will still be being sold. And thus, the Wii will be the first to go, becuase of hardware. 



PSN ID: Kwaad


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mesoteto on 21 November 2007

Soriku's friend---ROFL



 

carlos710 on 21 November 2007
MontanaHatchet said:
As much as I hate to get into this argument...

A lot of you are saying that the Wii's first year software and 360's second year software should not be compared.

Well, that doesn't seem to a problem for hardware, as long as the Wii is winning.
 

Yeah, because hardware its the same as software

I'm surprised at how little people on this site understand how the videogame industry works. 

 



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"Wii are legion, for Wii are many"

dtewi on 21 November 2007
Kwaad said:
dtewi said:
Kwaad said:
naznatips said:

You are comparing the Wii's first year software sales to the 360's second year software sales in a country where there are more 360s sold to try and say the Wii is in trouble. Then, you go on to use Mario (a game that sells with legs) to Halo (a game that sells first week and has short legs) to show the Wii is in trouble. There is something truly special in this comparison Kwaad.

Let's start with Mario. Mario 64 sold about 6.6 million lifetime in North America. Halo 2 sold about the same. Halo 3 is currently selling under Halo 2's NA sales at this point in it's life. SMG blew away Mario 64's week 1 sales in NA. Yet you have come to the brilliant conclusion that Super Mario Galaxy is a failure while Halo 3 is a booming success... for the record, both are booming successes at this point.

Second, attach ratio means much less than profit and overall sales. The 360 is a second year system that is experiencing massive losses. The Wii is a first year system that's experiencing huge amounts of success and profit. Now, let's break down all the things that affect profit. We have two main factors. Sales, and cost of development. In your infinite wisdom you seem to have chosen to ignore the second factor here. The cost of development for a 360 game is much more than a Wii game. Therefore, the Wii game needs to sell much less to make money than the 360 game. The cost of development for a PS3 game is even more than a 360 game. A PS3 game has to sell much much more than a Wii or 360 game to make a profit.

So, if we are looking at profit: Nintendo makes a profit on hardware. Nintendo makes a profit on software. dozens of games have made profit on the Wii, despite it only being in its first year and software quality being questionable at best. Dozens of games have made profit on the 360 because it's in its second year and has a lot of quality titles which have sold very well, but the system overall has been a huge dip in the red for Microsoft other than the very very very small profit they pulled in last quarter from massive Halo 3 sales.

Ah but here is the fun part. How many games do you think have made a profit on the PS3 Kwaad? How much of anything has made a profit on the PS3? It's okay for the Wii to have a lower attach rate because it has a higher userbase and cost/time of development is much lower, but how about the PS3? The monstrous system which requires 2 years minimum to make a game and 3-4 years to make a good game (FFXIII). The system that has the highest development costs of the 3 by far. The system that still only has 2 million sellin games on it after a full year on the market. Less than the Gamecube did. Huge budget titles like Ratchet & Clank and Heavenly Sword and Lair are flopping. Each of which probably costs more than double what it cost to make SMG and yet combined have sold less than half what SMG did in 2 weeks.

What system is really in trouble here Kwaad?


If you want the honest answer, I would say the 360, just because sony just restructed, and dumped even MORE money into the PS3, for whatever reason. Sony is not considering it a loss yet. The 360, on the verge of looking profitable, seems to be at biggest risk, because of hardware losses, and what not, however due to the success of Halo3, pulled it out of the hole. I would have the say the Wii will be the first to go this gen.

Why?

 


 Due to hardware limitations, the Wii will never be truely able to do what it was designed to do, and becuase of that a Wii2, or something else is likely to come in the next 3-4 years, while the PS3, and 360, will still be being sold. And thus, the Wii will be the first to go, becuase of hardware. 


It isn't supply limitation it is demand overload.



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superchunk on 21 November 2007

I don't want to read through all of the posts. But for my two cents I don't think the comparison between the 360 and any other console in terms of software sales is valid at this point and time. Here's why.

It has been out longer. In a consoles first year you are bound to have smaller attach rates, why? Because people just paid for the console. So, in 360's first year you had them spending $600 or so for the machine, xtra controller, and 1-2 games. Then at best most of these folks probably didn't buy a game for at least 6 months. Now, a year later these same people are probably spending another $400 or so on games. Thus, dramatically increasing 360's attach rate.

The Wii is really no different. People go out and spend $400 or so on the Wii, accessories, and 1-2 games beyond Wii Sports. Plus, you have the uber casual gamers who may have just Wii Sports and Play. They definitely won't buy another game right away. To them spending $400 is enough for now. Now a year will go by and then they will probably buy another $200-300 in games and BAM!! Wii's attach rate exceeds 360's due to the much larger install base by then.

We must remember. Most of us on this site are not casual gamers. Our spending habits of 10+ games a year is not normal or not what most gamers do. Most game shoppers will buy MAYBE 5 games in a year max. First year is probably only 2 due to cost of console and controllers. I think Wii is doing very well at this stage and if someone has the time and ability to research would realize it is definitely outselling 360's first year software sales.



kirby007 on 21 November 2007
Kwaad said:
dtewi said:
Kwaad said:
naznatips said:

You are comparing the Wii's first year software sales to the 360's second year software sales in a country where there are more 360s sold to try and say the Wii is in trouble. Then, you go on to use Mario (a game that sells with legs) to Halo (a game that sells first week and has short legs) to show the Wii is in trouble. There is something truly special in this comparison Kwaad.

Let's start with Mario. Mario 64 sold about 6.6 million lifetime in North America. Halo 2 sold about the same. Halo 3 is currently selling under Halo 2's NA sales at this point in it's life. SMG blew away Mario 64's week 1 sales in NA. Yet you have come to the brilliant conclusion that Super Mario Galaxy is a failure while Halo 3 is a booming success... for the record, both are booming successes at this point.

Second, attach ratio means much less than profit and overall sales. The 360 is a second year system that is experiencing massive losses. The Wii is a first year system that's experiencing huge amounts of success and profit. Now, let's break down all the things that affect profit. We have two main factors. Sales, and cost of development. In your infinite wisdom you seem to have chosen to ignore the second factor here. The cost of development for a 360 game is much more than a Wii game. Therefore, the Wii game needs to sell much less to make money than the 360 game. The cost of development for a PS3 game is even more than a 360 game. A PS3 game has to sell much much more than a Wii or 360 game to make a profit.

So, if we are looking at profit: Nintendo makes a profit on hardware. Nintendo makes a profit on software. dozens of games have made profit on the Wii, despite it only being in its first year and software quality being questionable at best. Dozens of games have made profit on the 360 because it's in its second year and has a lot of quality titles which have sold very well, but the system overall has been a huge dip in the red for Microsoft other than the very very very small profit they pulled in last quarter from massive Halo 3 sales.

Ah but here is the fun part. How many games do you think have made a profit on the PS3 Kwaad? How much of anything has made a profit on the PS3? It's okay for the Wii to have a lower attach rate because it has a higher userbase and cost/time of development is much lower, but how about the PS3? The monstrous system which requires 2 years minimum to make a game and 3-4 years to make a good game (FFXIII). The system that has the highest development costs of the 3 by far. The system that still only has 2 million sellin games on it after a full year on the market. Less than the Gamecube did. Huge budget titles like Ratchet & Clank and Heavenly Sword and Lair are flopping. Each of which probably costs more than double what it cost to make SMG and yet combined have sold less than half what SMG did in 2 weeks.

What system is really in trouble here Kwaad?


If you want the honest answer, I would say the 360, just because sony just restructed, and dumped even MORE money into the PS3, for whatever reason. Sony is not considering it a loss yet. The 360, on the verge of looking profitable, seems to be at biggest risk, because of hardware losses, and what not, however due to the success of Halo3, pulled it out of the hole. I would have the say the Wii will be the first to go this gen.

Why?

 


 Due to hardware limitations, the Wii will never be truely able to do what it was designed to do, and becuase of that a Wii2, or something else is likely to come in the next 3-4 years, while the PS3, and 360, will still be being sold. And thus, the Wii will be the first to go, becuase of hardware. 


it is already doing that, making money



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