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Forums - Sony Discussion - Is Valkyria Chronicles a JRPG?

 

Is Valkyria Chronicles a JRPG?

Yes it is. 102 46.15%
 
No. It is not. 68 30.77%
 
Just let it go, d21. Just let it go. 50 22.62%
 
Total:220

Here is a good way to put it actually. NOBODY I know considers Final Fantasy tactics a JRPG.

I've never seen it refered to as a JRPG. Final Fantasy tactics is quite literally Final Fantasy with a different battle system.

No matter how you define WRPG or JRPG.... SRPGS aren't involved. Valkyria chronicles is just being folded into the JRPG genre because of "list wars" and nobody cares which console has the best SRPG.



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when i hear this it makes my mood
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpKcm9Am504



Kasz216 said:
Here is a good way to put it actually. NOBODY I know considers Final Fantasy tactics a JRPG.

I've never seen it refered to as a JRPG. Final Fantasy tactics is quite literally Final Fantasy with a different battle system.

No matter how you define WRPG or JRPG.... SRPGS aren't involved. Valkyria chronicles is just being folded into the JRPG genre because of "list wars" and nobody cares which console has the best SRPG.

Except I don't give a damn about the PS3 or anyone's stupid lists and I still consider it and other SRPGs a subset of JRPGs. I absolutley consider FF Tactics a JRPG.... and I bet you almost anyone you ask will tell you Fire Emblem is one. Strategy is just the combat system description. Just as there are action JRPGs, and turn-based JRPGs, there are strategy JRPGs.



naznatips said:
Kasz216 said:
Here is a good way to put it actually. NOBODY I know considers Final Fantasy tactics a JRPG.

I've never seen it refered to as a JRPG. Final Fantasy tactics is quite literally Final Fantasy with a different battle system.

No matter how you define WRPG or JRPG.... SRPGS aren't involved. Valkyria chronicles is just being folded into the JRPG genre because of "list wars" and nobody cares which console has the best SRPG.

Except I don't give a damn about the PS3 or anyone's stupid lists and I still consider it and other SRPGs a subset of JRPGs. I absolutley consider FF Tactics a JRPG.... and I bet you almost anyone you ask will tell you Fire Emblem is one.


You are the first person i've ever met to call Fire emblem a JRPG.. so you would lose that bet.

Kasz216 said:
naznatips said:
Kasz216 said:
Here is a good way to put it actually. NOBODY I know considers Final Fantasy tactics a JRPG.

I've never seen it refered to as a JRPG. Final Fantasy tactics is quite literally Final Fantasy with a different battle system.

No matter how you define WRPG or JRPG.... SRPGS aren't involved. Valkyria chronicles is just being folded into the JRPG genre because of "list wars" and nobody cares which console has the best SRPG.

Except I don't give a damn about the PS3 or anyone's stupid lists and I still consider it and other SRPGs a subset of JRPGs. I absolutley consider FF Tactics a JRPG.... and I bet you almost anyone you ask will tell you Fire Emblem is one.


You are the first person i've ever met to call Fire emblem a JRPG.. so you would lose that bet.

Maybe you should find more people to talk to? If you ask the same 5 friends who share your worldview things you'll never get a new perspective. Time to branch out, my friend.



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naznatips said:
Kasz216 said:
naznatips said:
Kasz216 said:
Here is a good way to put it actually. NOBODY I know considers Final Fantasy tactics a JRPG.

I've never seen it refered to as a JRPG. Final Fantasy tactics is quite literally Final Fantasy with a different battle system.

No matter how you define WRPG or JRPG.... SRPGS aren't involved. Valkyria chronicles is just being folded into the JRPG genre because of "list wars" and nobody cares which console has the best SRPG.

Except I don't give a damn about the PS3 or anyone's stupid lists and I still consider it and other SRPGs a subset of JRPGs. I absolutley consider FF Tactics a JRPG.... and I bet you almost anyone you ask will tell you Fire Emblem is one.


You are the first person i've ever met to call Fire emblem a JRPG.. so you would lose that bet.

Maybe you should find more people to talk to? If you ask the same 5 friends who share your worldview things you'll never get a new perspective. Time to branch out, my friend.


I'm actually talking about these forums. If you look up a "Your favorite RPGs" thread you'll notice I often ask "do you count SRPGS" to which the answer is almost uniformly no. And that's just RPGs let alone JRPGS. SRPG isn't even really a subgenre, it's full out it's own genre. Like TPS even though the only difference between TPS and FPS is camera angle. You may not consider VC a JRPG because of list wars... but it's seems oddly suspicious that a genre that most people didn't even consider RPGs are now not only RPGs but part of a subgenre of RPGs.

So in the end, it's all a matter of interpretation. Like people do that with the Koran and the bible in different ways.

Still can't figure out if i would call FF tactics a Jrpg though... Can someone just make a definition of these styles already!



Kasz216 said:
naznatips said:
Kasz216 said:
naznatips said:
Kasz216 said:
Here is a good way to put it actually. NOBODY I know considers Final Fantasy tactics a JRPG.

I've never seen it refered to as a JRPG. Final Fantasy tactics is quite literally Final Fantasy with a different battle system.

No matter how you define WRPG or JRPG.... SRPGS aren't involved. Valkyria chronicles is just being folded into the JRPG genre because of "list wars" and nobody cares which console has the best SRPG.

Except I don't give a damn about the PS3 or anyone's stupid lists and I still consider it and other SRPGs a subset of JRPGs. I absolutley consider FF Tactics a JRPG.... and I bet you almost anyone you ask will tell you Fire Emblem is one.


You are the first person i've ever met to call Fire emblem a JRPG.. so you would lose that bet.

Maybe you should find more people to talk to? If you ask the same 5 friends who share your worldview things you'll never get a new perspective. Time to branch out, my friend.


I'm actually talking about these forums. If you look up a "Your favorite RPGs" thread you'll notice I often ask "do you count SRPGS" to which the answer is almost uniformly no. And that's just RPGs let alone JRPGS. SRPG isn't even really a subgenre, it's full out it's own genre. Like TPS even though the only difference between TPS and FPS is camera angle.

Hehe I think the only reason anyone considers TPS a genre is that there are so many freaking shooters that you have to have some way to separate them. It's basically the same deal with JRPGs and WRPGs. There are too many RPGs to group them. The thing about defining SRPGs as different is that everything about the games is the same as any other RPG except for the combat system, and you can't define an entire genre of RPGs by their combat system. Most SRPGs still have exploration, sidequests, leveling and customization, parties, linear stories, etc. Mind you Valkyria doesn't have much exploratiaon, but you get the point. Other SRPGs like Resonance of Fate certainly do. Do you not consider that a JRPG?

We just can't define RPGs by combat system. There are too many.



Booh! said:
Xen said:
Torillian said:
Xen said:
Torillian said:
Xen said:
Skeeuk said:

its an rpg from japan.

hence a jrpg literally, but gameplay is more akin to srpg.

So, if Oblivion were made in Japan by a Japanese team, turning out as the same game as it is now, would it be a JRPG? No. It'd still have nothing to do with the genre.

@Tor: That motive is the only reason people label it as one. It lacks general JRPG traits, having only the artstyle that fits the genre.

what traits?  What are the defining traits of jRPGs that encompass them all if not being an rpg from Japan and having a linear story?

-Stereotypical characters, such as the annoying little kid/hero with issues, the pompous girl, the old soldier, the goof-off and etc. Also present in some anime.

-"Save the world"! Plot with the villain embodying lots of negative emotions rather than some philosophy or a world view

-The story is very limiting of your actions, going into great lengths to shove itself or its moral down your throat

-Corny cliches such as the hero proudly announcing that he can fight this and that, thanking his friends, everyone talking about how their friendship is important and this and that

@ps3_jrpg_gamer: So, Anachronox, a western made-JRPG is now a WRPG just like that. Flawless logic!

 

wow....those are horrible ways to define a genre, but here goes.

pompous girl = Rosie, old soldier = Largo, Welkin is the goof-off

Save the world becomes "save the country" which is perfectly ligitimate and has been in jRPG's before it just like saving the town in Persona 4.

The story is extremely limited in your actions, don't know how that's a difference

Corny cliches non existant in Valkyria, are you sure you played it?

And that's using your admittedly crappy definitions for the genre, I really don't see how Valkyria is missing any of those.

Welkin is no goof-off, and Rosie is not pompous save for the beach scene. You're stretching the definitions to prove a point.

The story limits what you can do very harshly, unlike a WRPG. So it is with every JRPG.

There isn't a lot of cliches in VC, what you may consider as one is simple soldier camaraderie.

Your "save the world" point is legitimate.

You may consider these definitions crappy, but they're present in every profoundly-Japanese RPG such as Mana Khemia, Tales, Ar Tonelico, .hack and so on.

That's "shonen" stuff. That's like saying that Jiro Taniguchi or Takumi Nagayasu are not mangaka because they never draw spiked hair guys or horny little chicks. It's a very short sighted point of view, there's plenty of manga, anime, jrpg that are marketed to grown-up people and not to adolescent boys.

What are you trying to get at here? Shonen is marketed towards adolescent boys, and Seinen is marketed towards the older male audience. Your comment on mangaka really doesn't relate properly. I'm not familiar with those mangaka by name (but I've probably read some of their works) but your comment would have been better served by saying "that's like saying manga X or Y are not manga becasue they never draw spiked hair guys or horny little chicks". To which I would say neither of those things define Shonen, even if the first one runs rampant in the genre sometimes. Horny little chicks?

Shonen is more defined by a range of art styles, and specific genre of manga, mostly (but not only) battle manga, gag manga, sports manga, mystery manga (not horror though), and story manga. But story manga can be shoujo, or seinen, or josei, it depends on the types of characters and the art styles. There are romance Shonen mangas (like Suzuka and Seo Kouji's other works). It's mostly about art style, characters/character types, and the story. The easiest thing to distinguish is the art style though, it sticks out like a sore thumb compared to the other factors at times.

OT: I love this thread, so much stuff is getting crazy =)



naznatips said:
Xen said:
Torillian said:
Xen said:

-Stereotypical characters, such as the annoying little kid/hero with issues, the pompous girl, the old soldier, the goof-off and etc. Also present in some anime.

-"Save the world"! Plot with the villain embodying lots of negative emotions rather than some philosophy or a world view

-The story is very limiting of your actions, going into great lengths to shove itself or its moral down your throat

-Corny cliches such as the hero proudly announcing that he can fight this and that, thanking his friends, everyone talking about how their friendship is important and this and that

@ps3_jrpg_gamer: So, Anachronox, a western made-JRPG is now a WRPG just like that. Flawless logic!

 

wow....those are horrible ways to define a genre, but here goes.

pompous girl = Rosie, old soldier = Largo, Welkin is the goof-off

Save the world becomes "save the country" which is perfectly ligitimate and has been in jRPG's before it just like saving the town in Persona 4.

The story is extremely limited in your actions, don't know how that's a difference

Corny cliches non existant in Valkyria, are you sure you played it?

And that's using your admittedly crappy definitions for the genre, I really don't see how Valkyria is missing any of those.

Welkin is no goof-off, and Rosie is not pompous save for the beach scene. You're stretching the definitions to prove a point.

The story limits what you can do very harshly, unlike a WRPG. So it is with every JRPG.

There isn't a lot of cliches in VC, what you may consider as one is simple soldier camaraderie.

Your "save the world" point is legitimate.

You may consider these definitions crappy, but they're present in every profoundly-Japanese RPG such as Mana Khemia, Tales, Ar Tonelico, .hack and so on.

Okay, first of all this is the most ludicrous definition of anything I've ever seen, and I once argued with a guy who claimed anime can't be sci-fi because it isn't realistic enough.

Now, first I'm going to discredit your preposterous definition, with obvious examples which break it, starting from the closest definition and getting progessively farther from it.

Final Fantasy VI; no kid/hero with issues, no old soldier, no pompous girl. Villain who embodied insanity, rather than any particular emotion. The story was a relatively minor part of the experience. Only with FFVII did story take over gameplay in RPGs. Friendship isn't mentioned once, and the main character is a woman.

Chrono Trigger: Everything above is true of this game, except even moreso the villain is not an embodiment of anything that all, the characters are even less cliche, and the story doesn't limit your actions much at all, as the game offers a great deal of freedom.

Persona Series: The characters are certainly an anime cliches, but you have tons of freedom as to how you develop them and their relationships, and the villain is not a concious embodiment of anything. More than that, your characters never resort to friendship speaches or anything of the sort. Plot is never about saving the world.

The World Ends With You: Anime cliche characters are present, but the villains are shinigami, death gods, who are simply doing their job. The plot has nothing to do with the world, just the main character fighting for a second chance at life. Friendship speaches aren't present. Story pushes you down a path, but then every RPG (J and W) does except the really shitty ones like Oblivion.

Earthbound: Do I need to explain? If I do I fear for your soul.

Super Mario RPG.... LOL yeah, I'm not even gonna bother.

Pokemon... I hope you're embarassed by now.

 

Now, and here's my favorite part of this post, allow me to show a game which does match your definition:

Mass Effect 2:

-Stereotypical characters, such as the annoying little kid/hero with issues, the pompous girl, the old soldier, the goof-off and etc. Also present in some anime.

Shepard has plenty of issues and moral conflicts, depending on how you develop him. Miranda is the pompous girl. Zaeed and Garrus are both the old soldiers. Joker is the goof-off. Other cliched characters: Grunt the disgruntled badass, Tali the innocent nice girl.

-"Save the world"! Plot with the villain embodying lots of negative emotions rather than some philosophy or a world view.

Yeah you just described the whole plot of this franchise. Giant looming evil trying to whipe out all organic life. It's just an evil monster, no philosophy or worldview here.

-The story is very limiting of your actions, going into great lengths to shove itself or its moral down your throat

Wow! You're a genius! You sure you weren't describing this game? Aside from sidequests you can only follow the story's path. The actions you take effect various things in the universe, but not the story itself, which is completely linear.

-Corny cliches such as the hero proudly announcing that he can fight this and that, thanking his friends, everyone talking about how their friendship is important and this and that

Oh my gosh it gets better and better! Shepard constantly talks about how "he can stop it!" and how "he'll save the universe!" Even mreso, Shepard gives a giant cheesy ass speech at the end of the game about how they're a team and they can do anything together. XD

And yet, some of these still fall into common JRPG cliches. I've NEVER said that a JRPG has to perform all of these, those are just some defining traits - all you did was provide deviations to my perfect examples of fall-ins into the definitions.

So no, I'm not embarrassed. ME2 is still different enough not to be a JRPG.