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Forums - Sony Discussion - Sony is in danger of losing it's fans

Impulsivity on 15 March 2010
amp316 said:
Impulsivity said:
amp316 said:
strunge said:

 

amp316 said:

My final point is this.  Sony fans like Sony.  Nintendo fans like Nintendo.  What Sony is doing reminds me of when Coca-Cola introduced New Coke because they were losing to Pepsi at the time.  They made Coke taste more like Pepsi and no one liked it.  People that liked Coke still wanted Coke and not Pepsi in a Coke can.  Sony is turning into the New Coke and will be in trouble unless they bring back Coca-Cola Classic.  

RolStoppable said:
The analogy to New Coke is fantastic.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________

No it isn't because it is incorrect in its grasping of what actually occurred. 

 

the fact is that Coke fans did like the taste of New Coke, and preferred it to both Pepsi and original Coke in blind taste tests.  the opposition to New Coke was that they pulled original Coke off the market, and consumers were angry they couldn't get the original anymore and thus boycotted New Coke to voice that.  unfortunately, the damage was done to New Coke and Coke could never recover it from that. this is one of the most basic branding case studies taught in intro Brand Management classes and isn't hard to grasp.  perhaps some of you should actually educate yourselves on these things before trying to use them, because the New Coke example actually contradicts what you are trying to assert.

 

the lesson learned from New Coke is that if Sony makes all games like Wii games and stops producing next-gen games, they will lose their fans, just like Coke did when it stopped providing original Coke.  But if Sony provides the same great Next Gen games alongside with Wii like games, just like Coke should have kept both formulas on the market, they won't lose fans.  That's what the New Coke example ACTUALLY proves.  way to defeat your own position.

I love it when people who don't know what they are talking about actually defeat their own argument.

It doesn't really matter if you think that Coke, New Coke, or Pepsi tastes the best. 

All that matters is that it's all black soda and belongs to the same market.

  Here since you like using soda analogies (I think I originally said something about pepsi and coke preferences being like game console prefs over a year ago) here's whats happening.

  Notice Pepsi and Coke don't just make their flagships.  There is also Mellow Yellow and Mountain Dew, Sprite and Siera Mist, Sunkist and Slice etc.  Every time one makes a new product, the other needs to match it with something similar to shore up their product line and keep customers in their overall camp.  Sometimes it takes a few years before there is a Mellow Yellow to counter Mountian Dew, but eventually it's more or less inevitable except for fail products (there was never a Crystal Coke, for instance).

  That is what this is.  For the Mario Bros camp there's Little Big Planet, for the Zelda camp there's darksiders, for the Mario Kart Camp theres that Crash Bandicoot racing game etc.  Sony needs a collection of games to shore up the kid demographic just like Nintendo made games like Killer Instinct to counter the Genesis contention that it was just for kids (several studies were showing that teenagers wouldn't admit to their friends they owned an SNES because it wasn't cool like the Genesis was in that demographic) ditto for Conker's bad fur day, perfect dark and golden eye in the N64 era vs the Saturn and PS1.  

   Nintendo isn't doing as much matching in this gen since they're in the lead so insead the other consoles match them, that's just temporary though, if Sony wins in the next gen Nintendo will almost certainly make different types of games to try and match the success again.  It is the nature of the beast.

  So there are a few holes in the Sony line up relative to the Wii, maybe in the light and airy Sprite type games (mini game collections, motion sports games etc) so they put out the move to counter Nintendo's Sprite with a Sony Sierra Mist.  


There is a lot of truth in this post.  Systems do come out with games similar to the leading system in order to capitalize on their popularity.  Certain stuff did come out on Nintendo consoles that tried to make them look cooler.  The only problem with this arguement is that Killer Instinct, Conker's Bad Fur Day, GoldenEye 007, and Perfect Dark were made by Rare and not Nintendo.  Many of the games that I mentioned that are coming out for Move are first party games.  See the difference? 

  For a long time Rare was more or less Nintendo.  That is why Rare made the Donkey Kong games, the Star Fox games among many other titles that were more or less 1st party.  Rare was only 10% owned by Nintendo prior to being taken over by Microsoft but was more then just casually related to big N.  They were to Nintendo what Miramax was to Disney for all those years in the 90s and early 2000s, they were more or less a subsidiary of Nintendo that added more creative and/or adult games to the lineup.  Nintendo would make games like Mario 64, Zelda etc that were core for sure hits with established characters and farm out more risky ventures to other subsidiaries like Rare and Retro (Metroid Prime among others).

   It is really sad that rare went the way of big M instead of big N the last few years.  I would be vastly happier with my Wii if it had some Rare games on it.  A few games like Conkers Bad Fur day on the Wii would do a lot to help Nintendo with their renewed "only for kids" image.  They would maybe introduce a bit of the risk that has been missing from almost all the recent Nintendo games which have more or less been retreads of what worked before (often 3+ times before) with motion controls sometimes added in.  I think the horror that was Mario Sunshine scared them into being super risk averse which makes me sad. 

 




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dnnc on 15 March 2010

Sony won't lose their fans, they have already proven to flip flop on views and concerns



my signature went on strike, it's demanding 3% raise

Azelover on 15 March 2010
Impulsivity said:
amp316 said:
Impulsivity said:
amp316 said:
strunge said:

 

amp316 said:

My final point is this.  Sony fans like Sony.  Nintendo fans like Nintendo.  What Sony is doing reminds me of when Coca-Cola introduced New Coke because they were losing to Pepsi at the time.  They made Coke taste more like Pepsi and no one liked it.  People that liked Coke still wanted Coke and not Pepsi in a Coke can.  Sony is turning into the New Coke and will be in trouble unless they bring back Coca-Cola Classic.  

RolStoppable said:
The analogy to New Coke is fantastic.
__________________________________________________________________________________________________________

No it isn't because it is incorrect in its grasping of what actually occurred. 

 

the fact is that Coke fans did like the taste of New Coke, and preferred it to both Pepsi and original Coke in blind taste tests.  the opposition to New Coke was that they pulled original Coke off the market, and consumers were angry they couldn't get the original anymore and thus boycotted New Coke to voice that.  unfortunately, the damage was done to New Coke and Coke could never recover it from that. this is one of the most basic branding case studies taught in intro Brand Management classes and isn't hard to grasp.  perhaps some of you should actually educate yourselves on these things before trying to use them, because the New Coke example actually contradicts what you are trying to assert.

 

the lesson learned from New Coke is that if Sony makes all games like Wii games and stops producing next-gen games, they will lose their fans, just like Coke did when it stopped providing original Coke.  But if Sony provides the same great Next Gen games alongside with Wii like games, just like Coke should have kept both formulas on the market, they won't lose fans.  That's what the New Coke example ACTUALLY proves.  way to defeat your own position.

I love it when people who don't know what they are talking about actually defeat their own argument.

It doesn't really matter if you think that Coke, New Coke, or Pepsi tastes the best. 

All that matters is that it's all black soda and belongs to the same market.

  Here since you like using soda analogies (I think I originally said something about pepsi and coke preferences being like game console prefs over a year ago) here's whats happening.

  Notice Pepsi and Coke don't just make their flagships.  There is also Mellow Yellow and Mountain Dew, Sprite and Siera Mist, Sunkist and Slice etc.  Every time one makes a new product, the other needs to match it with something similar to shore up their product line and keep customers in their overall camp.  Sometimes it takes a few years before there is a Mellow Yellow to counter Mountian Dew, but eventually it's more or less inevitable except for fail products (there was never a Crystal Coke, for instance).

  That is what this is.  For the Mario Bros camp there's Little Big Planet, for the Zelda camp there's darksiders, for the Mario Kart Camp theres that Crash Bandicoot racing game etc.  Sony needs a collection of games to shore up the kid demographic just like Nintendo made games like Killer Instinct to counter the Genesis contention that it was just for kids (several studies were showing that teenagers wouldn't admit to their friends they owned an SNES because it wasn't cool like the Genesis was in that demographic) ditto for Conker's bad fur day, perfect dark and golden eye in the N64 era vs the Saturn and PS1.  

   Nintendo isn't doing as much matching in this gen since they're in the lead so insead the other consoles match them, that's just temporary though, if Sony wins in the next gen Nintendo will almost certainly make different types of games to try and match the success again.  It is the nature of the beast.

  So there are a few holes in the Sony line up relative to the Wii, maybe in the light and airy Sprite type games (mini game collections, motion sports games etc) so they put out the move to counter Nintendo's Sprite with a Sony Sierra Mist.  


There is a lot of truth in this post.  Systems do come out with games similar to the leading system in order to capitalize on their popularity.  Certain stuff did come out on Nintendo consoles that tried to make them look cooler.  The only problem with this arguement is that Killer Instinct, Conker's Bad Fur Day, GoldenEye 007, and Perfect Dark were made by Rare and not Nintendo.  Many of the games that I mentioned that are coming out for Move are first party games.  See the difference? 

  For a long time Rare was more or less Nintendo.  That is why Rare made the Donkey Kong games, the Star Fox games among many other titles that were more or less 1st party.  Rare was only 10% owned by Nintendo prior to being taken over by Microsoft but was more then just casually related to big N.  They were to Nintendo what Miramax was to Disney for all those years in the 90s and early 2000s, they were more or less a subsidiary of Nintendo that added more creative and/or adult games to the lineup.  Nintendo would make games like Mario 64, Zelda etc that were core for sure hits with established characters and farm out more risky ventures to other subsidiaries like Rare and Retro (Metroid Prime among others).

   It is really sad that rare went the way of big M instead of big N the last few years.  I would be vastly happier with my Wii if it had some Rare games on it.  A few games like Conkers Bad Fur day on the Wii would do a lot to help Nintendo with their renewed "only for kids" image.  They would maybe introduce a bit of the risk that has been missing from almost all the recent Nintendo games which have more or less been retreads of what worked before (often 3+ times before) with motion controls sometimes added in.  I think the horror that was Mario Sunshine scared them into being super risk averse which makes me sad. 

 

You're sweet, and a teenager at heart.



jdelanoy on 15 March 2010
joshin69 said:
Truth is how many Ps3 owners also own a wii, but never play it because it does (i'm not trying to offend) not have the good enough software

 

That's exactly the case with me. I got a PS3 in January after it launched, and I got a Wii that August (took that long for me to be able to find one ^_^). I sometimes play the Wii with my sisters' friends (*wink*), but other than that, I haven't used it in more than 18 months.

I just don't have enough time to play games on more than one console, and the Wii simply does not have very many games that appeal to me. (Going back to PS2-scale graphics on FPS's... *barf*).

 

All in all, though, to say that the Move will alienate Sony's current fans is stupid. People like me who don't really care for motion controls will just not buy it (or they will try it out at a friend's house or Best Buy or something before making a final decision). People who do like that sort of game will buy it. Unless Sony stops making its "hardcore" games (and no one who is remotely sane would expect them to do this), there is no logical reason to jump ship. And I have to admit, being able to buy what is (negating exclusives) essentially a combined X360/Wii/Blu-ray player for $300 isn't a bad deal. Especially if you have a lot of people in the family that like playing different kinds of games. My dad and mom, for example, are perfectly happy with Wii Sports (the original one), and have been since we got the thing. My sisters play like three games (I did convince one of them to play Warhawk though.) My younger brother (13) is already getting bored with MAG...



<insert awesome signature here>

Wagram on 15 March 2010

As long as they keep pumping out the games like they have been doing. They aren't losing anything.



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Ssenkahdavic on 15 March 2010

I see a good deal of "Casuals wont buy a 400 casual system" and I agree with this completely.

Thing is, Sony has a GOLDEN opportunity here, if they market this properly. Casual System + Blue-Ray Player (which might soon be a TiVo clone in NA) = a pretty good deal.

To say that the "core" games will disappear seems a bit, odd to me. Sony is a very large company, with many many studios under their corporate umbrella. They have studios in place now that have not EVER primarily developed or published a title (they move members here and there to help meet deadlines and whatnot). Who is to say that the exact people developing these current/future Move games (im talking 1st Party) are taking anyway anything from the development of the core PS3 gaming experience we have today?

How can cross gaming (Wii/PS3) end up badly for the Wii? I see this as a major advantage for BOTH systems due to the release of the Move.

Im a huge fan of Sony the Developer/Publisher (not so much caring about the hardware).



 

  

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