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Forums - Gaming - Girl mistakes gun for Wii controller - kills herself

FreeTalkLive said:
scottie said:


1) Yeah, agreed. But you have to consider that by owning a gun, you are (may be) impinging on other people's right to safety. I'll accept that you are most likely responsible with your firearms and wouldn't let something like the story in the OP happen to your household. So of course you would breeze through the qualification process for getting a gun if they were to require a license. But someone who might lose their gun, leave it where a child can find it, or have it stolen is endangering their entire community and thus impinging upon the right to safety of many people. I argue that by denying these people firearms, the right to safety is granted to the majority, whereas if these people have firearms, only the minority has their right to safety upheld (and if they're really irresponsible they're no safer with a gun than without)

 

2) Ignore for a second that this is a public building. Lets say I move to America. If I put up a sign on my gate that says 'the owner of this property asks that you do not carry a gun on this property. If you do carry a gun, the police will be called to deal with your trespassing.' This is well within United States law, and I would argue that this is required for my right to safety. If you feel unsafe without a gun, you have the right to not come over to my house to play video games. Same argument could go for any private business, at the owners insistence. Why then are those who work in the public service denied the same right to safety as those who work in the private sector?

Your points seem to make sense for someplace where guns aren't good and more guns aren't great.  However, what I would like to see in NH is more guns in the hands of more people.  If most people had guns, maybe we could get rid of most of the cops where I live.  That would save a lot of money in taxes.  Some of the towns near me already don't have cops.

I already live in one of the safest places in the US.  We already have the 2nd fewest amount of cops in the US and near the lowest taxes.  But maybe even more guns would mean even fewer cops and taxes and more safety.

You see, guns are needed to protect people from criminals (something cops aren't able to do in most cases as they respond after the case), wild animals, and government agents.  Guns were used in the past revolutions and may be used in future revolutions (though, personally, I'm against war).  Millions of guns in the hands of private systems is also important for the defense of the US, more so than even the US military, IMO.

 

 

Thats such a horrible argument. Forget the fact that you think its sufficiently safe to simply place your gun on top of your dresser loaded but do you honestly think that you and your friends would stand a chance against trained military? You know there have been heavily armed cults that have tried this before and they have all died. The military has become so effective that no militia, no matter how well armed or trained would ever have a chance in a rebellion.

Also you live in New Hampshire, what wild animals are you even talking about? I hike in New Hampshire all the time and I know for a fact there are no wolves or grizzlies there. So what are you protecting yourself from black bears? You do realize theres only ever been like 10 black bear attacks recorded in North America right?

Did you know there were 40,000 gun related deaths in the United States in 2008 and the peak year was 80,000 gun related deaths, how can you justify this? Far far more people die from accidental gun deaths every year than the miniscule amount that are trained well enough to actually protect themselves with guns. Actually the majority of people get their guns taken away by the intruder and used against them or shoot a family member. How could you ever rationally argue that civilians owning automatic guns is a good thing? If you want to hunt then you can have your long rifles, you don't need a freaking fully automatic machine gun.

Also why for the love of God do you need to carry a gun on government property where there are cops at every single corner? I could go on but I get the feeling that with someone like you it won't make a difference.



                                           

                      The definitive evidence that video games turn people into mass murderers

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Gilgamesh said:
famousringo said:
So, in Tennessee you can leave a loaded firearm within reach of an unsupervised child and face no charges if that child hurts somebody with it?

Come. On.

Oh she wasn't unsupervised, the mother was in the same room as the child...

I guess everyone missed that part.



Sharky54 said:
Heres the thing.

Guns are good as they protect us.

Guns are bad as accidents like this happen.

However, my uncle has always had a bunch of guns for hunting and self defense. 4 children grew up in his house. We never saw any of the guns until we were well into our teens. It comes down on the owner to properly take care to make sure accidents do not happen.

Guns are good?? WTF. 

Protect from what?? Other idiots with guns.

If there was no guns, there would be no need to have them for protection and no 3 year old dead...



ocean-1984 said:
Sharky54 said:
Heres the thing.

Guns are good as they protect us.

Guns are bad as accidents like this happen.

However, my uncle has always had a bunch of guns for hunting and self defense. 4 children grew up in his house. We never saw any of the guns until we were well into our teens. It comes down on the owner to properly take care to make sure accidents do not happen.

Guns are good?? WTF. 

Protect from what?? Other idiots with guns.

If there was no guns, there would be no need to have them for protection and no 3 year old dead...

 

 

Okay, so you are saying there is no chance of anyone ever breaking into your house to steal from you, rape your wife, kill your family? These things don't happen? You defend yourself from a person drugged up looking to steal stuff for money for drugs without using a gun. See how well that works. Just do it. It wont end well.



Mendicate Bias said:

Thats such a horrible argument. Forget the fact that you think its sufficiently safe to simply place your gun on top of your dresser loaded but do you honestly think that you and your friends would stand a chance against trained military? You know there have been heavily armed cults that have tried this before and they have all died. The military has become so effective that no militia, no matter how well armed or trained would ever have a chance in a rebellion.

Also you live in New Hampshire, what wild animals are you even talking about? I hike in New Hampshire all the time and I know for a fact there are no wolves or grizzlies there. So what are you protecting yourself from black bears? You do realize theres only ever been like 10 black bear attacks recorded in North America right?

Did you know there were 40,000 gun related deaths in the United States in 2008 and the peak year was 80,000 gun related deaths, how can you justify this? Far far more people die from accidental gun deaths every year than the miniscule amount that are trained well enough to actually protect themselves with guns. Actually the majority of people get their guns taken away by the intruder and used against them or shoot a family member. How could you ever rationally argue that civilians owning automatic guns is a good thing? If you want to hunt then you can have your long rifles, you don't need a freaking fully automatic machine gun.

Also why for the love of God do you need to carry a gun on government property where there are cops at every single corner? I could go on but I get the feeling that with someone like you it won't make a difference.

I certainly don't want to take on a trained military.  However, the folks in Somalia, Afghanistan and Iraq have been ok at repelling invading armies. 

NH has wild dogs, snakes, bears and moose.  All are potentially very dangerous.  Even though NH is the safest state, there also has some criminals that live here or visit.  Additionally, guns are needed to protect the people of NH from both the ruling governments and foreign governments.

If there were 1,000,000 gun related deaths in the US every year, it wouldn't change my position.  Sure, the facts show that in the US, more guns usually means less crime.  However, even if that weren't true, it would change that the right to self-defense is more important than utilitarianism.  The government doesn't grant rights, rights are above the government.

Cops have no duty to protect me.  Only I have that duty.  As they say, when seconds matter, cops are only minutes away.

 



 

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ocean-1984 said:
Sharky54 said:
Heres the thing.

Guns are good as they protect us.

Guns are bad as accidents like this happen.

However, my uncle has always had a bunch of guns for hunting and self defense. 4 children grew up in his house. We never saw any of the guns until we were well into our teens. It comes down on the owner to properly take care to make sure accidents do not happen.

Guns are good?? WTF. 

Protect from what?? Other idiots with guns.

If there was no guns, there would be no need to have them for protection and no 3 year old dead...

I know you don't live in one of the most free parts of the US (NH, CO, WY...) so you may not understand the freedom culture.  But yes, to millions of folks in the US, guns are good.  Is a gun as good as a car to me?  Likely not.  But it certainly more important and useful than videogames.  The government isn't here to protect me.  But my armed friends and I are.  I don't want to die, thus I have a gun.



 

Tired of big government?
Want liberty in your lifetime?
Join us @
http://www.freestateproject.org

why not blame pro wrestling too? how about we blame barack obama? I'm sure if we met these people they would be missing some teeth



twesterm said:

God I hope they don't blame this on games and not on the dumb-shit stepfather that left a loaded gun where a three year old could get a hold of it.

There's absolutely no excuse for that and I hope they charge him for manslaughter.

It's perfectly fine to own guns, but:

  1. You should be taught in gun safety
  2. Don't fucking leave it loaded
  3. Leave it locked somewhere so that only the people who you want can have access to it

1. Agreed

2. If he atleast put the safety on this might have been prevented. No 3 year old should be able to unlock the safety on most handguns. Still, shouldnt have had a bullet in the chamber, thats stupid.

3. This is a very good point, but can be taken multiple ways. In this case, the gun should have been out of reach of the kid, this is pretty easy to accomplish. Even with some theives being reported in the area, keep it out of reach of children. In case of my house. My dad and I keep a gun in jammed deep into the side of a couch. There is no way to see it or know its there unless you know its there. You cant even feel it sitting on the cushion. If we did have a small kid, or a guest stay the night, we would still lock it up. But otherwise we feel its more useful where it is atm.



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FreeTalkLive said:

I certainly don't want to take on a trained military.  However, the folks in Somalia, Afghanistan and Iraq have been ok at repelling invading armies. 

NH has wild dogs, snakes, bears and moose.  All are potentially very dangerous.  Even though NH is the safest state, there also has some criminals that live here or visit.  Additionally, guns are needed to protect the people of NH from both the ruling governments and foreign governments.

If there were 1,000,000 gun related deaths in the US every year, it wouldn't change my position.  Sure, the facts show that in the US, more guns usually means less crime.  However, even if that weren't true, it would change that the right to self-defense is more important than utilitarianism.  The government doesn't grant rights, rights are above the government.

Cops have no duty to protect me.  Only I have that duty.  As they say, when seconds matter, cops are only minutes away.

 

Like I said you only have black bears which almost never approach humans, moose which never attack unless purposfuly agitated and you have no highly posienous snakes what so ever so that argument doesn't work.

If there is ever an army powerful enough to invade American soil you can bet that a couple of guys with guns and no co-ordinated leadership won't stand much of a chance. Also if such a time ever did come the military would draft you into the army or have national guard militia outposts set up where they will arm civilians and give them regiments to follow. This isn't some movie, your not going to get together with your friends and take on a trained military.

Also what armies have Somalia, Iraq and Afghanistan repelled? Are you talking about Afghanistan repelling the soviets when we gave them massive weapon caches and trained them?

Also you just made up that fact out of thin air. Yes New Hampshire is safe but that has nothing to do with guns I guarantee you. It has more to do with the geography, demographics and economics of the state and it inhabitants. If you want to use facts though its not going to paint a pretty picture for you. America's five most violent states - South CarolinaTennesseeNevadaLouisiana, and Florida -- have no laws to require a Brady criminal background check for every gun sale, no laws to combat illegal gun trafficking effectively, and no laws to restrict access to military-style assault weapons. As a result South Carolina has the highest violent crime rate in America; Tennessee has the fifth-highest rate of gun homicide; Nevada has America's fourth-highest gun death rate (including the fourth-highest rate of gun suicide); while Louisiana has the highest gun death rate, highest gun homicide rate, and highest accidental gun death rate in America.                                                                                                      

The ten states with the highest gun death rates in America have some of the nation's weakest gun laws, including Louisiana, AlaskaMontana, Tennessee, Alabama, Nevada, ArkansasArizonaMississippi, and West Virginia.

Admittedly overall rates are influenced by a number of factors, but the consequences of dangerous behavior are only magnified by easy access to guns by dangerous people. I could also bring you the statistics that shows how much safer States with stricter laws on gun control are but the above information should be more than enough.

Your argument about rights is foolish. If you want to live somewhere where your rights aren't impeded upon go set up a country in Antartica because a society can not function without certain rights being impeded. I want to walk around naked all day and I don't want to pay my taxes but guess what, I can't. What makes your rights any more important than mine? I think it is my right to live in a state where I don't have to worry that every single person is wearing a concealed weapon.                                                                                                                                        

Also umm I'm not sure what the cops in your town are like but yes the cop does have a duty to protect you. Every country in Europe has pretty much banned guns for civilians. According to you these places should be overrun by criminals, rapist and murderers pointing guns in peoples faces and doing whatever they want. So why are European countries far safer than America then?



                                           

                      The definitive evidence that video games turn people into mass murderers

Hey Freetalklive,

Are you part of a well regulated Militia?



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