By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Microsoft - Slim 360 - Wouldn't it make sense?

Andysw on 08 March 2010
jarrod said:
Andysw said:
jarrod said:
Andysw said:

Nice last line. But unfortunately calling sony's motion control a ripoff or a copy of the wii remote is not entirely accurate.

Yeah, it's only mostly accurate.  ;)

Business as usual for Sony though really, their controller design has almost always taken it's lead from what Nintendo does.

Keep in mind that just because the idea and concept of sony's motion control works similarly to the wii remote doesn't mean that they copied nintendo with the wand. The idea of using "motion control" with one to one functionality has already been done before. If you look back at sony 3e 2005, you would see that they used different coloured cups to pick up water in the duck demo with a standard playstation eye component to track the cup. Motion control there.

Heck if you look back even further, they made a demostration with the eyetoy's motion capabilities. A stick with a coloured ball and controllerless gameplay were present.

I'm sorry, but the one hand wand concept is pretty blatantly taking after Wii's (overwhelmingly successful) design and implementation.   It's like the SNES/PSX controller all over again.

So by your logic, natal is a blatant ripoff of the eyetoy because they share the same concept? Play games with no controller?

Anyway, maybe so as far as implementation of motion control is concerned. But for the idea and concept of it, no.



Around the Network
jarrod on 08 March 2010
Andysw said:
jarrod said:
Andysw said:
jarrod said:
Andysw said:

Nice last line. But unfortunately calling sony's motion control a ripoff or a copy of the wii remote is not entirely accurate.

Yeah, it's only mostly accurate.  ;)

Business as usual for Sony though really, their controller design has almost always taken it's lead from what Nintendo does.

Keep in mind that just because the idea and concept of sony's motion control works similarly to the wii remote doesn't mean that they copied nintendo with the wand. The idea of using "motion control" with one to one functionality has already been done before. If you look back at sony 3e 2005, you would see that they used different coloured cups to pick up water in the duck demo with a standard playstation eye component to track the cup. Motion control there.

Heck if you look back even further, they made a demostration with the eyetoy's motion capabilities. A stick with a coloured ball and controllerless gameplay were present.

I'm sorry, but the one hand wand concept is pretty blatantly taking after Wii's (overwhelmingly successful) design and implementation.   It's like the SNES/PSX controller all over again.

So by your logic, natal is a blatant ripoff of the eyetoy that shares the same concept?

Sure, only Natal pushes the concept's implementation much, much farther.  Arc can't really say the same, it's definitely more of a "me-too" design compared to what the Wii's doing.

Not that Nintendo doesn't do this too on occasion.  The GC pad was pretty readily a (flawed) response to the DualShock imo.



Andysw on 08 March 2010
jarrod said:
Andysw said:
jarrod said:
Andysw said:
jarrod said:
Andysw said:

Nice last line. But unfortunately calling sony's motion control a ripoff or a copy of the wii remote is not entirely accurate.

Yeah, it's only mostly accurate.  ;)

Business as usual for Sony though really, their controller design has almost always taken it's lead from what Nintendo does.

Keep in mind that just because the idea and concept of sony's motion control works similarly to the wii remote doesn't mean that they copied nintendo with the wand. The idea of using "motion control" with one to one functionality has already been done before. If you look back at sony 3e 2005, you would see that they used different coloured cups to pick up water in the duck demo with a standard playstation eye component to track the cup. Motion control there.

Heck if you look back even further, they made a demostration with the eyetoy's motion capabilities. A stick with a coloured ball and controllerless gameplay were present.

I'm sorry, but the one hand wand concept is pretty blatantly taking after Wii's (overwhelmingly successful) design and implementation.   It's like the SNES/PSX controller all over again.

So by your logic, natal is a blatant ripoff of the eyetoy that shares the same concept?

Sure, only Natal pushes the concept's implementation much, much farther.  Arc can't really say the same, it's definitely more of a "me-too" design compared to what the Wii's doing.

Not that Nintendo doesn't do this too on occasion.  The GC pad was pretty readily a (flawed) response to the DualShock imo.

The only difference between the motion wand and the wii remote is that the wand is more accurate. Hence and ball and the camera.



jarrod on 08 March 2010
Andysw said:
jarrod said:
Andysw said:
jarrod said:
Andysw said:
jarrod said:
Andysw said:

Nice last line. But unfortunately calling sony's motion control a ripoff or a copy of the wii remote is not entirely accurate.

Yeah, it's only mostly accurate.  ;)

Business as usual for Sony though really, their controller design has almost always taken it's lead from what Nintendo does.

Keep in mind that just because the idea and concept of sony's motion control works similarly to the wii remote doesn't mean that they copied nintendo with the wand. The idea of using "motion control" with one to one functionality has already been done before. If you look back at sony 3e 2005, you would see that they used different coloured cups to pick up water in the duck demo with a standard playstation eye component to track the cup. Motion control there.

Heck if you look back even further, they made a demostration with the eyetoy's motion capabilities. A stick with a coloured ball and controllerless gameplay were present.

I'm sorry, but the one hand wand concept is pretty blatantly taking after Wii's (overwhelmingly successful) design and implementation.   It's like the SNES/PSX controller all over again.

So by your logic, natal is a blatant ripoff of the eyetoy that shares the same concept?

Sure, only Natal pushes the concept's implementation much, much farther.  Arc can't really say the same, it's definitely more of a "me-too" design compared to what the Wii's doing.

Not that Nintendo doesn't do this too on occasion.  The GC pad was pretty readily a (flawed) response to the DualShock imo.

The only difference between the motion wand and the wii remote is that the wand is more accurate. Hence and ball and the camera.

No, both Arc and Wii (M+) offer 1:1 tilt/motion sensitivity.   The PSEye allows Arc to do things the Wiimote IR can't do (like calculate depth) but it's not as fast for pointer controls, so there's a slight trade off there.



Mr. sickVisionz on 08 March 2010

I think Sony would have seen an identical explosion from keeping the same form factor and chopping of $100 from the price.  Some ultrahardcore might have purchased it because of the new size, but I think the bulk of the sales came from new buyers who finally saw the system as affordable.

I don't see the point of a 360 Slim unless it allows them to make it for less money.  That won't boost sales though.  I also don't see a price drop.  They aren't doing worse than they were last year, they're pretty stable.  I think they will do bundles at the same price until Sony starts hinting at a price drop.



Around the Network
Damnyouall on 09 March 2010

Edit: Never mind, this is totally off-topic. I'm creating a new topic about it.



"Well certainly with the Xbox 360, we had some challenges at the launch. Once we identified that we took control of it. We wanted to do it right by our customers. Our customers are very important to us." -Larry "Major Nelson" Hryb (10/2013). Note: RRoD was fixed with the Jasper-revision 3 years after the launch of 360

"People don't pay attention to a lot of the details."-Yusuf Mehdi explaining why Xbone DRM scheme would succeed

"Fortunately we have a product for people who aren't able to get some form of connectivity; it's called Xbox 360,”-Don Mattrick

"The region locking of the 3DS wasn't done for profits on games"-MDMAlliance

jarrod on 09 March 2010
Damnyouall said:
jarrod said:

No, both Arc and Wii (M+) offer 1:1 tilt/motion sensitivity.   The PSEye allows Arc to do things the Wiimote IR can't do (like calculate depth) but it's not as fast for pointer controls, so there's a slight trade off there.

I wonder where that nonsense came from, "1:1". 1:1 would mean that if I moved the controller the shortest possible distance in the shortest possible time unit in the universe, it would accurately interpret it. Which is clearly nonsense. For instance, if I moved the Wii Motion Plus controller 1 micrometer in 1 nanosecond, it wouldn't pick up anything. So it's not "1:1". It's all a matter of scan-rate and accuracy.

And now for the main difference between Sony's motion controller and Nintendo's: Sony's is able to determine its position in three dimensional SPACE! Get it? 3D, not 2D. All Nintendo's motion controller does is determine a position on a two dimensional PLANE. It's not even in the same leauge. 3-dimensional motion control opens up a whole new world of possibilities.

The principle behind the Wii remote is basically the same as a lightgun, which has been around for 40 years (with the added ability to sense tilt).

"1:1" is basically PR shorthand, but basically refers to full 360 degree tilt and acceleration.  Both M+ and Arc incorporate a triple axis gyroscope/accelerometer capable of it.

Wii IR doesn't determine position at all btw, though it can help determine angle.  It's not really the same as a lightgun either, Wii's IR receptor is actually a camera, not a sensor.



Twistedpixel on 09 March 2010
Hus said:
Points to consider, reasons for PS3 sale increase.

$100 price cut.
Food of kick ass exclusive games.
Sony's 1st party was in the process established superiority over comp.
Yes smaller hardware.

And yet Farmville completely dominates their entire software efforts.



Do you know what its like to live on the far side of Uranus?

Twistedpixel on 09 March 2010
jarrod said:

"1:1" is basically PR shorthand, but basically refers to full 360 degree tilt and acceleration.  Both M+ and Arc incorporate a triple axis gyroscope/accelerometer capable of it.

Wii IR doesn't determine position at all btw, though it can help determine angle.  It's not really the same as a lightgun either, Wii's IR receptor is actually a camera, not a sensor.

It can determine distance as well as angle, so do the math.



Do you know what its like to live on the far side of Uranus?

Username2324 on 09 March 2010

I think a 360 Slim would fail to drive software sales. I see the majority of XSlim sales being replacement consoles for older Fat 360s. The difference between a 360 Slim and the PS3 Slim, is that the original 360s (most likely) won't have any advantage over the Slim. Whereas the Phat PS3s had various advantages, from backwards compatibility, more USBs and media card readers.

So where I would say more than a good portion of PS3 Slim buyers were buying their first PS3, I believe a good portion of 360 Slim buyers would be buying replacement consoles. And replacement consoles do not increase software sales. So while you might see an increase in hardware sales, I think the increase in software sales would be disproportional.

The numbers on the home page might paint a pretty picture for the 360, it would be just like the RROD, where you dont really know how many are new buyers and how many are just replacing.