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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - 5th year of Xbox 360 : The Unreal Engine Effect.

Lord Flashheart on 27 February 2010

Well commonman you know what they say about opinions...

...People are arseholes.



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libellule on 27 February 2010
CommonMan said:
blackops said:
selnor said:
Sharky54 said:
Am I the only one who doesn't find the graphics of alan wake to be "zomg the most amazing thing ever"?

Also, AA is good and all. But it doesn't improve the graphics. Just gets rid of jaggies. So this doesn't help much.


Certainly in terms of art, it's your opinion. But in term of technicalaities it's impressive. AA isnt just about jaggies on polygons. It's also about clear textures, non jagged shadows, shadow clipping, lighitng AA etc. Alan Wake is the first to have all 4xMSAA. Most games wont even AA half that stuff.

You need to understand the most important to most gamers is how the game looks visually. Alan Wake looks good and all but you cant compare it to Heavy Rain, Uncharted 2 or Killzone 2.  When an average gamer plays and they love the graphics, they are not talking about the technicalities; they would say "wow, this is one of the best looking games I've played".


I agree with this, and using this logic I would say Killzone 2 is one of the ass ugliest games I have ever seen. The character models all look like they were exposed to radiation as children and the color palatte of black, grey and some more darker grey was the most boring thing I've ever seen. The best looking game this gen for me would be Mass Effect 2, followed very closely by Heavy Rain which gets this on character models alone.

problem is that, this type of graphical comparaison based on the "art design" are purely ... subjective
you said KZ looks "ugly" neverthless people seems to appreciate this style since the next Halo will be darker too and less cartoony

Neverthless, to say the true and focus on the Alan wake topic : Alan Wake may or not be the ultimate piece of technology
BUT it will deliver a very good atmosphere inside a wild north american forest and developpers can be praised for this.

In clear : you are off topic men !



Time to Work !

CommonMan on 27 February 2010
libellule said:
CommonMan said:
blackops said:
selnor said:
Sharky54 said:
Am I the only one who doesn't find the graphics of alan wake to be "zomg the most amazing thing ever"?

Also, AA is good and all. But it doesn't improve the graphics. Just gets rid of jaggies. So this doesn't help much.


Certainly in terms of art, it's your opinion. But in term of technicalaities it's impressive. AA isnt just about jaggies on polygons. It's also about clear textures, non jagged shadows, shadow clipping, lighitng AA etc. Alan Wake is the first to have all 4xMSAA. Most games wont even AA half that stuff.

You need to understand the most important to most gamers is how the game looks visually. Alan Wake looks good and all but you cant compare it to Heavy Rain, Uncharted 2 or Killzone 2.  When an average gamer plays and they love the graphics, they are not talking about the technicalities; they would say "wow, this is one of the best looking games I've played".


I agree with this, and using this logic I would say Killzone 2 is one of the ass ugliest games I have ever seen. The character models all look like they were exposed to radiation as children and the color palatte of black, grey and some more darker grey was the most boring thing I've ever seen. The best looking game this gen for me would be Mass Effect 2, followed very closely by Heavy Rain which gets this on character models alone.

problem is that, this type of graphical comparaison based on the "art design" are purely ... subjective
you said KZ looks "ugly" neverthless people seems to appreciate this style since the next Halo will be darker too and less cartoony

Neverthless, to say the true and focus on the Alan wake topic : Alan Wake may or not be the ultimate piece of technology
BUT it will deliver a very good atmosphere inside a wild north american forest and developpers can be praised for this.

In clear : you are off topic men !

Ahh! You're right! Sorry lib and sorry Selnor for derailing your thread!



No one in the world ever gets what they want, and that is beautiful.

NightAntilli on 27 February 2010

Well for one, I doubt the 4xAA is completely free in this case. AA and HDR don't go well together on the X360 since they both rely on the eDRAM. But the lighting and shadowing is probably the best done on consoles as of now.. It's really amazing. They probably use tiling for the lighting, but there must be some real magic going on in that code to output that kind of lighting... I'm really wondering how they get the 4xAA with that.. It seems better than Halo 3's lighting, but Halo 3 needed to sacrifice resolution and AA for it.. Alan Wake doesn't seem to have that problem...



Truth does not fear investigation

theprof00 on 27 February 2010
NightAntilli said:
Well for one, I doubt the 4xAA is completely free in this case. AA and HDR don't go well together on the X360 since they both rely on the eDRAM. But the lighting and shadowing is probably the best done on consoles as of now.. It's really amazing. They probably use tiling for the lighting, but there must be some real magic going on in that code to output that kind of lighting... I'm really wondering how they get the 4xAA with that.. It seems better than Halo 3's lighting, but Halo 3 needed to sacrifice resolution and AA for it.. Alan Wake doesn't seem to have that problem...

fog



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NightAntilli on 27 February 2010
theprof00 said:
NightAntilli said:
Well for one, I doubt the 4xAA is completely free in this case. AA and HDR don't go well together on the X360 since they both rely on the eDRAM. But the lighting and shadowing is probably the best done on consoles as of now.. It's really amazing. They probably use tiling for the lighting, but there must be some real magic going on in that code to output that kind of lighting... I'm really wondering how they get the 4xAA with that.. It seems better than Halo 3's lighting, but Halo 3 needed to sacrifice resolution and AA for it.. Alan Wake doesn't seem to have that problem...

fog

What do you mean?



Truth does not fear investigation

libellule on 27 February 2010
NightAntilli said:
theprof00 said:
NightAntilli said:
Well for one, I doubt the 4xAA is completely free in this case. AA and HDR don't go well together on the X360 since they both rely on the eDRAM. But the lighting and shadowing is probably the best done on consoles as of now.. It's really amazing. They probably use tiling for the lighting, but there must be some real magic going on in that code to output that kind of lighting... I'm really wondering how they get the 4xAA with that.. It seems better than Halo 3's lighting, but Halo 3 needed to sacrifice resolution and AA for it.. Alan Wake doesn't seem to have that problem...

fog

What do you mean?

the reduced size of the environnement are hidden by fog ?

in clear, you are in a little 3D path but you believe you are in a forest
(it was mentnnioed in a recent french videogame video about AlanW, they saied this was really well implemented so you didnt feel too much restricted in your "walk")



Time to Work !

NightAntilli on 27 February 2010
libellule said:
NightAntilli said:
theprof00 said:
NightAntilli said:
Well for one, I doubt the 4xAA is completely free in this case. AA and HDR don't go well together on the X360 since they both rely on the eDRAM. But the lighting and shadowing is probably the best done on consoles as of now.. It's really amazing. They probably use tiling for the lighting, but there must be some real magic going on in that code to output that kind of lighting... I'm really wondering how they get the 4xAA with that.. It seems better than Halo 3's lighting, but Halo 3 needed to sacrifice resolution and AA for it.. Alan Wake doesn't seem to have that problem...

fog

What do you mean?

the reduced size of the environnement are hidden by fog ?

in clear, you are in a little 3D path but you believe you are in a forest
(it was mentnnioed in a recent french videogame video about AlanW, they saied this was really well implemented so you didnt feel too much restricted in your "walk")

Not really. There's a big difference between distance fog and volumetric fog. Alan Wake uses volumetric fog.



Truth does not fear investigation

theprof00 on 27 February 2010
NightAntilli said:
libellule said:
NightAntilli said:
theprof00 said:
NightAntilli said:
Well for one, I doubt the 4xAA is completely free in this case. AA and HDR don't go well together on the X360 since they both rely on the eDRAM. But the lighting and shadowing is probably the best done on consoles as of now.. It's really amazing. They probably use tiling for the lighting, but there must be some real magic going on in that code to output that kind of lighting... I'm really wondering how they get the 4xAA with that.. It seems better than Halo 3's lighting, but Halo 3 needed to sacrifice resolution and AA for it.. Alan Wake doesn't seem to have that problem...

fog

What do you mean?

the reduced size of the environnement are hidden by fog ?

in clear, you are in a little 3D path but you believe you are in a forest
(it was mentnnioed in a recent french videogame video about AlanW, they saied this was really well implemented so you didnt feel too much restricted in your "walk")

Not really. There's a big difference between distance fog and volumetric fog. Alan Wake uses volumetric fog.

palmface*

There is only a difference is how they look. It still scales the game down.

EDIT: Do you go telling people things like this? Where does misinformation like this come from? Did you hear this from someone else?



ssj12 on 27 February 2010
selnor said:
libellule said:
I m not sure those will beat the kings that Gears1/2 or Uncharted2 are

It is not a question about PS3 or 360, it is just that Halo Reach is focusing on upgrading from Halo3 gfx using a new engine able to run a lot of item on screen. I doubt it will become a graphical king contender.
Halo Reach could still be the prettiest Halo ever made and maybe the best one too.

Same goes for Alan Wake : a 4 (?) years game started for PC then going 360 exclusive is not gonna define the new graphical king.
Alan Wake may still be the GOTY 2010 with an insane atmosphere and story and particularly pretty lighting effect.

Neverthless, you are right on the "no specific engine for the 360" ... that is true.


Alan Wake started dev on 360 form day 1, just so you know. Also, I never referred to graphics as such. But technical capabilities. Graphics are 20 % of providing good tech. I was more referring to an engine as a whole. having 4xMSAA on a console game is astonishing. first time ever. And at no cost to the resources. Simly play Crysis on an uber PC and see the FPS difference between changing MSAA up and down to see the performance hit.

Both Alan Wake and Halo Reach as Engines are truly ahead of UE3 by miles and miles.

fyi, Killzone 2 uses 4xMSAA...

 

anyways, i wouldnt say miles considering recent updates to the UE3 engine. And they are still miles behind Crytek.

 

Also you dont need an "uber" PC to run crysis on very high, just need something thats not pre-built at a cost of around $800.



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