First off, what are you disagreeing with?  You hardly respond to my comment in the first paragraph.  But in response, MGS bills itself as tactical espionage action.  Not as a stealth game, although it does have elements.  Notice, if you will, the word action in it's billing.

I guess Bioshock was a failure as a game because it had vitachambers.  I guess Prince of Persia is a horrible game because Elika saves you at every fall (note that I have not played Prince of Persia).

You talk as if the harder difficulties were locked in MGS4.  I think only Big Boss Extreme was locked.  You don't have to play through the game multiple times to get a good experience the first time.  If I played Mass Effect on easy or normal (I'm on my first run on "hardcore" I think, whichever is the hardest difficultly that's unlocked at the beginning of the game, so I don't know how easy easy/normal is), then complained that the game was too easy and I didn't need to use any of my biotic powers, how stupid would I look?

I can see your point about the R6 and GR series.  With the original Rainbow 6 games (R6, Covert Ops, Rogue Spear, Ravenshield, Athena Sword), I would agree with you.  Those games absolutely punished you for not using stealth, except in Terrorist Hunt mode.  The slightest provocation would result in bombs going off or hostages being killed.  There were even missions where you had to bug rooms and could not be spotted.  But the newer games forgo punishing stealth in favor of giving you options (not to mention that the games have turned very linear and action focused).  You can use a silencer in R6: Vegas 1/2 and try to pick off as many targets as possible without being noticed, or you can just go in loud and shoot everything you see with a machinegun.  The option is yours.

You also completely ignore and do not respond to my comment that it looks like Splinter Cell: Conviction is going to offer more aggressive approaches to situations.  Come on, seriously, an automatic shotgun.  Is it going to be a silenced automatic shotgun that shoots tranquilizer pellets?  Have you seen all the videos?  I'm willing to bet that I could beat Splinter Cell: Conviction on normal with guns blazing, easily.  Except the situations where stealth will be forced (if there are any).

In the end, I think it's stupid to compare MGS and the Splinter Cell series directly.  The games have very different design goals in almost every aspect possible.

I'd go with Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell.

Personally, I didn't care for MGS much. It just seemed too preachy, convoluted, and long-winded.

I agree with you on Conviction. I'm not sold on its gameplay at all compared to SC and CT. I'll give it a shot but I'm not as excited about it as I once was.

You can say that MGS isn't a "stealth" game, except that the series INTRODUCED the genre back with Metal Gear. Everyone expects the game to involve stealth elements and the transition to TPS-style play caused someone at Kojima productions to ease back the difficulty.

As for difficulty settings, I played on Solid Normal, the second highest difficulty for the initial playthrough. It's where I set all my games because I expect the game to offer SOME challenge at that difficulty. Mass Effect 2 did, BioShock did (other than the VitaChambers), most games do... unfortunately, MGS4 only hung me up at one point and that was the deck of the freighter... which I blitzed through like I would Gears of War. I shouldn't have to crank the difficulty to an obscenely high level just to get something out of the game.

You're right about R6... the older games were impossible to play without stealth and I'd like to see the series return to that a bit. Still, as is, the new games promotes stealth on medium/medium-high difficulties more than MGS4. I just played through Vegas a few weeks ago and found the game moderately difficult.

I don't think it's stupid to compare the MGS and SC games directly if you're comparing gameplay elements and nothing more. In that regard, the two series are somewhat similar, reside within the same genre, and after all, MGS4 kind of ripped SC's control scheme.

PS. BioShock wasn't a failure because of the VitaChambers but jesus, the game would have been SO MUCH BETTER without them. Increase save points if you need to but I hate games that give the player a get out of jail free card. It removes almost all the tension from the situation, which would have made Rapture even more creepy and intimidating.

Agreed the Original Metal Gear and the new Metal gear Solid games >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Splinter Cell 

@rocketpig: yeah they aren't QTEs I used the wrong terminology.  For CQC type moves, which both charachters perform, SC uses toggle switch where you grab an enemy and it stays that way until you give the next command. In MGS I like how you have to hold down the r1 button to keep grabbing on to an enemy and then push whatever else afterwards to perform the next action.  It feels like my fingers are more of an extension of the character and less like I'm just giving commands.  I just think in certain instances MGS feels better to control.  SC definitely has more moves that interact with the environment.  Hanging on pipes, zip lining, shooting out lights... all awesome stuff.  SC also has a better vibe... I feel much more badass as sam fisher within the context of the storyline.  I love both games but I like mgs more even though the execution of the story can be silly and pretensious.

Valid points. I'd agree with you on the grappling mechanisms used by MGS4. I thought they were a nice touch.

Do a Halo VS Resistance and see which one wins.

It'd be close but I think Wii Fit would miraculously pull out a narrow victory.

I would blame it then

@bobobologna:  I also think MGS isn't a stealth only game.  It gives you choices.  It is a logical progression of the age old "army guy" video games which fall under anything from old school contra type games  or modern first/third person action games.  If you are trying to progress the gun based action game genre, what is the next logical step after every other game is just a guy shooting everyone?   Expand the "move set" with melee, holds, and avoidance techniques, all which naturally involve stealth (thats how real army guys do it apparently).  Also it's tactical espionage ACTION.  Botton line, games like SC and MGS are a different evolutionary path of gun based action and  shouldn't pigeon holed into a narrow category.