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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - "Microsofts creative destruction" + Microsofts response.

ChichiriMuyo said:
I hate when people talk about Bill Gates being a philanthropist when what he's using a lot of that money for is to teach people how to use MS products. Breeding loyal customers isn't charitable even if you can convince the government not to tax you for it. I almost couldn't finish after that.


Who told you so?
The drunken guy in the metro or a random guy on the internet?



Imagine not having GamePass on your console...

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The game told me it required windows 95 or better when i tried to install it...so i installed linux



"...the best way to prepare [to be a programmer] is to write programs, and to study great programs that other people have written. In my case, I went to the garbage cans at the Computer Science Center and fished out listings of their operating system." - Bill Gates (Microsoft Corporation)

"Hey, Steve, just because you broke into Xerox's house before I did and took the TV doesn't mean I can't go in later and take the stereo." - Bill Gates (Microsoft Corporation)

Bill Gates had Mac prototypes to work from, and he was known to be obsessed with trying to make Windows as good as SAND (Steve's Amazing New Device), as a Microsoft exec named it. It was the Mac that Microsoft took for its blueprint on how to make a GUI.

 

""Windows [n.] - A thirty-two bit extension and GUI shell to a sixteen bit patch to an eight bit operating system originally coded for a four bit microprocessor and sold by a two-bit company that can't stand one bit of competition.""

@ Bladeforce - Haha never heard that one before :)

OT: Sum of it all is that MS isn't cool anymore. Its all about image. The Xbox is the only real MS product that comes with an attitude.



Bladeforce said:
CommonMan said:
Damnyouall said:
Sony and Nintendo innovate, Microsoft replicates.


Blah bleddy blah blah generic troll statement blah.

Edit: I guess I should comment on the OP. LOL! Okay, so MS is slow moving? That makes sense, it's huge! Otherwise, good points and interesting, I think as the OP states, they should make an innovation division and have a mandate that the other divisions HAVE to work with them rather than against them.

That statement has been true of Microsoft since day one.....please read the quote from Bill Gates under my Av


You're right, they stole the idea for achievements from Sony's trophy system and Xbox Live Arcade is a copy of Wiiware right?  Streaming downloads on your console while you play games, community games, cross-game chat, and the list goes on of features that Microsoft copied off the other two.  Seriously where have you been this console generation?



Legend11 said:
Bladeforce said:
CommonMan said:
Damnyouall said:
Sony and Nintendo innovate, Microsoft replicates.


Blah bleddy blah blah generic troll statement blah.

Edit: I guess I should comment on the OP. LOL! Okay, so MS is slow moving? That makes sense, it's huge! Otherwise, good points and interesting, I think as the OP states, they should make an innovation division and have a mandate that the other divisions HAVE to work with them rather than against them.

That statement has been true of Microsoft since day one.....please read the quote from Bill Gates under my Av


You're right, they stole the idea for achievements from Sony's trophy system and Xbox Live Arcade is a copy of Wiiware right?  Streaming downloads on your console while you play games, community games, cross-game chat, and the list goes on of features that Microsoft copied off the other two.  Seriously where have you been this console generation?

In that garbage can in his sig...lol.



"...You can't kill ideas with a sword, and you can't sink belief structures with a broadside. You defeat them by making them change..."

- From By Schism Rent Asunder

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bobobologna said:
DirtyP2002 said:
bobobologna said:

I think you are getting a bit too defensive about Microsoft.  I think the main argument is that Microsoft isn't fostering an environment where innovative ideas can thrive, not that they should be front runners in everything they do.

Cleartype taking 10 years to get out?  Doing a horrible job with making their apps compatible with tablets (and now failing to do the same for capactive touchscreens based on finger inputs)?

Sony get's blasted all the time for being a disconnected company, and I agree with those criticisms.  Their divisions have largely in the past been completely ignorant of each other instead of working together.  Now we are hearing that different parts of Microsoft are going so far as to sabotage each other.  It's ridiculous if true.


It is about healthy growth. Sustainable growth is more important than anything else. Look, Apple bet their company on touchscreens and portable devices, imagine how bad Apple would look right now if the portable devices would have failed. Apple is bigger than ever before, because their bet was paying off.

It is very hard to be on every possible market. MS still has the OS and office software that makes a lot of money, but they try to get on other markets as well. Look at the Xbox 360 and the videogame industry. MS brought some innovations to this industry like Xbox Live, Video on Demand on a console, Xbox Live Arcade and digital distribution of games, HDD drives, Sky / Canal+, Netflix and now Project Natal. It really takes a lot of effort to push innovations and to market them, becuase at the end of the day, they want to make money with it. It took MS almost 10 years, 5 billion USD and thousands of hours to establish the Xbox brand.

I think MS has a very "pro innovation culture" in their company. Look at the MS courier for example. They had this idea and created something awesome IMO, now it would take again billions of USD and years of time to establish this and get this on the market. Of course you have to find partners that develop software for this and you have to find distribution partners as well.

Now you have to do this again with the MS surface... Don't get me wrong, I would love to see MS making the courier affordable for everyone. I would get it day one, but it is not that simple. The idea / innovation is just one thing, to get it out at the right time is not easy. That is why I don't blame them.

For those of you who don't know surface:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rP5y7yp06n0

and MS courier:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UmIgNfp-MdI

 

I do blame them.  You completely and conveniently ignored the articles posting about ClearType.  And tablet PC inputs for Microsoft Office.  Where the hell is Windows Mobile 7?  Why does Windows Mobile 6.5 suck ass with finger inputs when Google and Apple have already put out great interfaces for mobile phones?

It's cool that Microsoft is dreaming about the Courier and Surface.  I dream about fusion power someday.  Why isn't Microsoft doing things it can and should be doing?

The article clearly specifies examples where different divisions of the company were SABOTAGING each other.  I don't know how anyone could defend that.

For some reason DirtyP2002's responses are not showing, but anyway. The MS PR guy talking about the scale of change they bring with their innovations is just pure smokescreen. In a well running company, it would be unheard of to have an innovation taking 10 years to be implemented at all. There is just no excuse for it. Of course, looking at what MS has produced in the last 10 years in the operating system space could give you an indication of why it has taken so long. Anybody remember what Vista was originally supposed to be like? It really seemed to be the product that would lead MS to a new path, but one by one all groundbreaking new features were omitted. So it is no wonder ClearType, too, got postponed. It's kind of a wonder that it survived at tall, to be honest.

Then, talking about the manpower and resources needed to bring new innovations into market and make them succeed. Microsoft has MUCH, MUCH more resources, both manpower and money, than Apple, Amazon, Nintendo, Google etc. How come the competition is able to take innovations to market in a fraction of the time it takes Microsoft? Are they that much better at innovating, or could the OP actually have a lot of merit? Could it be that Microsoft is divided into lesser divisions and two major established divisions (operating systems and Office), and that the established divisions fight tooth and nail to maintain their position, even at the expense of other divisions and ultimately, at the expense of the whole company? It is actually very telling that most of the innovation in last years has come to market from the EDD, which is not yet established in the same way but also does not threaten the operating systems and Office divisions. Your view that no company would undermine new innovations is very naive. Companies are run by people, and people care most about their own well being. Microsoft seems to be too big to be really controlled by the CEO and the top management, so middle management can and will care only about their own survival. Like I said before, it is sad and a shame really as Microsoft could do so much more and so much better.



I think it's pretty clear, both by their successes and failures this last decade, that Microsoft has lots of internal problems. They have huge resources, you can read about amazing R&D they do every year, but they simply refuse to use it, or refuse to put their full weight behind it. With the R&D they do, and resources they have, it's very weird to see them being just reactive on many accounts, and failing to predict market and technology trends.

Their Xbox division has had a lot of innovative stuff, but they have also done a ton of mistakes or bad business decisions over the years.

I think Microsoft, as is, is mired by their own sheer size, and for every step forward they take ( Live, Xbox 360 services, Win 7, Community Games, BizSpark), they seem to take 2 steps back.



Hotmail and MSN are the market leaders WW I believe. So its not only office and Windows that dominated.

The 360 completely changed how consoles worked online but pushing the digital marketplace etc and Windows 7 is seemingly a huge success (as is Bing I believe).

However yes they certainly don't seem as innovative as they should be.



FaRmLaNd said:
Hotmail and MSN are the market leaders WW I believe. So its not only office and Windows that dominated.

The 360 completely changed how consoles worked online but pushing the digital marketplace etc and Windows 7 is seemingly a huge success (as is Bing I believe).

However yes they certainly don't seem as innovative as they should be.

Online existed on consoles back to Dreamcast and PS2. The 360 invented nothing except achievements, and even then it already existed in a lot of PS2 games individually...

 



JaggedSac said:

I would just like to say that MS came up with AJAX.

Azure should be compared to Amazon's cloud service not Google Docs.  If you were to compare to Google, Google App Engine would be better.

But other than that, you are correct.  MS is a slow turning giant.

ASP .NET AJAX != AJAX