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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Digital Foundry: GTA3... on Dreamcast

For many years, people have wondered what might have happened if the Dreamcast had lasted longer; what games could have made their way to Sega's final console if it hadn't been discontinued in 2001.

Now, more than twenty years later, a team of homebrew enthusiasts have managed to get an alpha built of GTA3 running on Dreamcast. It's still a work in progress, but its a fascinating look at what might have been.

https://www.eurogamer.net/digitalfoundry-2024-the-new-grand-theft-auto-3-dreamcast-port-is-an-astonishing-achievement



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First of all, that is a huge project with amazing results, and anything I will say now, has never ever to be considered as an attack against it.

That fan-made DC port of GTAIII is based on the assets of the PC version.
The developers are trying, very hard, to replicate the PS2 graphic (and gameplay) version experience in the DC.

That may seem a great idea, and probably is the most logical. BUT: PC assets of that game are richer than the PS2 one (so, more polygons here and there)
Also, being the 2 machines (DC and PS2) VERY different in its inner hardware (and CPU/GPU architecture), making "an EXACT" port of the PS2 game experience, in a DC, is probably not the thing you would get in an official 2001 DC version. The reason is, you will get performance implications: DC cannot supply the architectural differences, with brute force of the hardware, to get "the exact same game" (as, for example, emulation does many times, because the emulated machine is several times worse then the one who uses the emulator). And official version it would just adapt every situation to the DC hard, differently to the PS2 would do, to get a similar result in gameplay experience.

Plus, DC used GD and not a DVD (way too expensive to be launched with one, in 1998, although it were rumours during years DC could get a DVD reader as an expansion). That means, a 1 disc game has only a maximum of 1 GB, not 4,5GB (the limit in a single layer DVD). So... DC version probably would got its radio stations cropped (in number, or at least, in extension) to save space in the disc. Or its quality would had been too compromised.

SO, what we are getting here, is a very DC hardware-stressed PS2 GTAIII "version". Not really a DC version developed with that machine in mind.
What I'm trying to say is, if DMA (Rockstar North) had released a GTAIII version for Dreamcast, in that moment, it would probably had better framerate experience and would have been much more similar in quality to the PS2 version, without trying "to be" the PS2 version in DC.

That said, the result of this project is IMPRESSIVE, praiseworthy, and totally recomendable if you have a DC.

Last edited by JohnVG - on 12 January 2025

GTA III doesn't exist without Dreamcast by the way. It began development on DC. Even before the fan project. Former devs said they didn't see a reason it could not run on DC.



Bite my shiny metal cockpit!

JohnVG said:


Plus, DC used GD and not a DVD (way too expensive to be launched with one, in 1998, although it were rumours during years DC could get a DVD reader as an expansion). That means, a 1 disc game has only a maximum of 1 GB, not 4,5GB (the limit in a single layer DVD). So... DC version probably would got its radio stations cropped (in number, or at least, in extension) to save space in the disc. Or its quality would had been too compromised.

It wasn't a rumor. https://segaretro.org/Dreamcast_DVD_Player

There was also a planned Cable box and MP3 player shown. As well as linking with cell phones and smart watches of the time. Karoke and Zip Drives. SEGA wanted the DC wo thave 3 things. DVD. Modem. HDD. Only had enough money for one.



Bite my shiny metal cockpit!

I mean the video itself shows how much better Liberty City Stories looked on PSP which is a decidedly weaker platform than PS2. So I'm not sure what's so surprising about a poorly optimized PS2 game running even worse on Dreamcast.

It's not like GTA3 was a technical marvel on the PS2. 2001's visuals stunners were GT3 and MGS2, and arguably Tekken Tag Tournament before them (which was similar to Soul Calibur in that both of them were essentially remade to new consoles from PS1 tier arcade systems). GTA3 impressed with the world design and freedom, but it obviously could run on Dreamcast with the right amount of optimzation and tweaks.

What impresses here is the continued dedication of Dreamcast's fans.



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Leynos said:

GTA III doesn't exist without Dreamcast by the way. It began development on DC. Even before the fan project. Former devs said they didn't see a reason it could not run on DC.

Yes, they started the game in DC.

Leynos said:
JohnVG said:


Plus, DC used GD and not a DVD (way too expensive to be launched with one, in 1998, although it were rumours during years DC could get a DVD reader as an expansion). That means, a 1 disc game has only a maximum of 1 GB, not 4,5GB (the limit in a single layer DVD). So... DC version probably would got its radio stations cropped (in number, or at least, in extension) to save space in the disc. Or its quality would had been too compromised.

It wasn't a rumor. https://segaretro.org/Dreamcast_DVD_Player

There was also a planned Cable box and MP3 player shown. As well as linking with cell phones and smart watches of the time. Karoke and Zip Drives. SEGA wanted the DC wo thave 3 things. DVD. Modem. HDD. Only had enough money for one.

Oh, WOW! I NEVER saw that Dreamcast-DVD player.

Someone knows if that machine was prepared to really be able to use DVD game-discs for the Dreamcast playing them as games? Or was just only a Dreamcast and a DVD-movie player inside one case?
My doubts about that DC-DVD combo are because it reminds me the Panasonic Q (a DVD+GC combo), and that combo was never prepared to use a full DVD to be played on the Gamecube: You only could use the Q in Gamecube mode using its mini-DVDs game, or as a normal DVD player in DVD mode. It had the 2 modes very separeated (because it probably was 2 separated hardwares inside the same case, using the same power supply).

Realistically, those "combo-gadgets" never sold well. At least... not in that era: The Q didn't. And the official Sony's "PSX" (an expensive PS2 with HDD to record TV) neither did (despite some early news). They both failed to sell, so they never were officially released in western countries. Too expensive for the young public they had, I suppose.


In any case, I originally was talking about some external unit to be put in a Dreamcast, to play DVD-games. Or maybe a new Dreamcast model with DVD reader instead of the GD reader(being backward compatible with GD games, of course). Not sure at all that combo can do that.

The DC Karaoke and Zip-Drive units are better known. The first was released, as the Mega-CD one did. Saturn get a commercial floppy unit instead, and Mega Drive almost got one, being cancelled in the last moment: I personally LOVE its design, very very MD1 style, almost as if it "completes" MD, like 64DD "does" with N64.

Youlgron said:

This is a fascinating development! The Dreamcast, despite its untimely demise, remains a beloved console. Seeing GTA 3, a landmark game in open-world gaming, running on it, even in alpha form, is a testament to the system's potential and the dedication of its community.

It's a poignant reminder of what could have been. Imagine if the Dreamcast had continued to thrive, perhaps with a stronger library of games like GTA. This achievement serves as a fascinating glimpse into that "what if" scenario, showcasing the enduring power of both the Dreamcast and the passion of its dedicated fanbase.

Dreamcast put the REAL online game in the console world, WORLDWIDE. That's a massive achivement and a MILESTONE that never has to be forgotten. Also, along with PS2, was the first one to get cross-platform online gaming with "Capcom vs. SNK 2" in Japan, being able to play online against players of both consoldes in 2001, thanks to Capcom.



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