Forums - Politics Discussion - Iranian General Killed by US Attack

Wyrdness said:
vivster said:
Has Iran ever done anything besides uttering empty threads? I mean what are they gonna do here, invade the US? Considering the past decade it kinda feels even North Korea is a bigger threat than Iran.

They have actually they've seized oil tankers and blocked trade I remember they seized a UK military ship years back they can cause serious problems for US trade partners hurting relations between international allies, considering they've recently done joint military drills with Russia and China they are a far bigger problem than NK.

Sounds pretty mild to me compared to the WW3 talking point floating around everywhere. And it extends the question to if Russia and China have done anything meaningful since the end of the Cold War. The US is constantly calling Russia the enemy and they're in an active trade war with China, so they're obviously not concerned with any major retaliation. Same with Iran. All I'm seeing is big words and chain rustling.

I've heard so many big promises of retaliation that never came, I'm WW3 fatigued at this point.



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vivster said:

Sounds pretty mild to me compared to the WW3 talking point floating around everywhere. And it extends the question to if Russia and China have done anything meaningful since the end of the Cold War. The US is constantly calling Russia the enemy and they're in an active trade war with China, so they're obviously not concerned with any major retaliation. Same with Iran. All I'm seeing is big words and chain rustling.

I've heard so many big promises of retaliation that never came, I'm WW3 fatigued at this point.

Blocking trade is not mild hence why they've never been able to fully sanction Iran and Russia has done something meaningful they annexed Crimea the only other point oil could pass through and not one military action was taken against them because everyone US included knew it's a fight they don't want while China have snapped up all the trade in Africa weakening US' trade position in the world as many countries are now opting to use trade with China to invest in themselves which is what triggered the trade war if you think it's only words you're not diving deep into politics the's more to this than conflict as retaliation.



John2290 said:
Eagle367 said:

Hahahaha the biggest joke of our time is the US wanting peace and you saying you want it is a good ol' joke as well. You are a conspiracy theorist or at least sound like one. In the real world, the US right now is more of a threat to world peace than any other nation on Earth.

You hate freedom? 

Holy brainwashed hell Batman! 

Are you being serious here? Why don't you go ask the people of the countries the US invaded how free they feel? This has got nothing to do with freedom and China is not the boogeyman you make it out to be. This is a;; about power, control and ego. Iran doesn't bow down to the US and the US hates that someone is outside their sphere of influence. That's all there is to it. It has nothing to do with China or freedom or helping anyone. This war, which hopefully doesn't happen, will be one of the most catastrophic to happen in modern history. It will hurt humanity and freedom. So don't bring that bs about freedom here. We all have thinking brains to cut through that bs.



Just a guy who doesn't want to be bored. Also

pitzy272 said:
Idk exactly how I feel about this. It does seem the pros outweigh the cons. But I think this is an important video for people for context before they just jump on the bash Trump bandwagon. I’m not for or against Trump, but it does get really old seeing everyone automatically assume everything he does is pure evil.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iRXXnMJH0kQ

I don't think trump had the biggest hand in doing this but as president, he should have stopped and kept in control his war mongering military and intelligence. What I would like to know is what are the pros? The cons are obvious:

Potential war with Iran

Breaking international law

Killing innocents and Iraqi leaders along with the Irani one

(This is only for US, not for the rest of us) Potentially being kicked out of Iraq and turning it into an enemy

The potential death of more innocents along with soldiers in retaliation

Giving war mongers in Iran an excuse to take more extreme measures

Oh and the biggest one: the potential of it spiralling out of control and starting world war 3.



Just a guy who doesn't want to be bored. Also

KLAMarine said:
I want to condemn Trump for this but then I recall that he has access to intelligence the general public does not.

Which he never reads... and has to get short summary, in baby talk, from advisers so he can understand partly the issues at hand.



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KLAMarine said:
I want to condemn Trump for this but then I recall that he has access to intelligence the general public does not.

Yeah... the intelligence that he has spent most of his presidency talking about how terrible it is?  



JRPGfan said:
KLAMarine said:
I want to condemn Trump for this but then I recall that he has access to intelligence the general public does not.

Which he never reads... and has to get short summary, in baby talk, from advisers so he can understand partly the issues at hand.

I'd imagine some summarizing would have to take place if the intelligence was voluminous. Have you sat in on Trump's intelligence briefings?

gergroy said:
KLAMarine said:
I want to condemn Trump for this but then I recall that he has access to intelligence the general public does not.

Yeah... the intelligence that he has spent most of his presidency talking about how terrible it is?  

When's the last time he has said something like this?



vivster said:
SpokenTruth said:

Which is certainly a possibility.  But...do you want to take that risk?  Do you want to risk the lives of your own people that Iran won't retaliate?

I'm actually not sure what "willing to take a risk" actually means here. Who's taking a risk with what? The deed is already done, now people will just have to wait what happens. I'm assuming the US and other countries already have possible counter measures in mind, so they're not risking anything by sitting around. I'm just sitting here as a mostly unaffected observer and on a scale of 1 to 10 how worried I am that this situation will have global consequences in the short term I'm sitting firmly at a 1.

Though I have said a couple of times how I feel very sorry for anyone who has to live in the US for being a playball in what some generously call politics.

I thought it was pretty clear who was taking a risk and what that risk is.  Which apparently you are fine taking that risk.  Glad to know you're not in a position to do such.

KLAMarine said:
JRPGfan said:

Which he never reads... and has to get short summary, in baby talk, from advisers so he can understand partly the issues at hand.

I'd imagine some summarizing would have to take place if the intelligence was voluminous. Have you sat in on Trump's intelligence briefings?

gergroy said:

Yeah... the intelligence that he has spent most of his presidency talking about how terrible it is?  

When's the last time he has said something like this?

Pretty constant. Every time he says it was Ukraine and not Russia that interfered in 2016.  It was our intelligence community that came to that conclusion.



Massimus - "Trump already has democrat support."

Shadow1980 said:

Yep. If anyone wants to read more about it, here you go: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9tat

The U.S. government has stuck its nose in places it had no business sticking it, ostensibly in the name of fighting communism but just as often just to protect Western business interests. During the Cold War, the U.S. government firmly felt that they had the right to dictate what kind of governments other countries would have, and many times they decided that deposing democracies and replacing them with tyrannies best suited their strategic and economic interests.

These other countries don't "hate us for our freedom" or some other vapid bullshit like that. They hate us for a very good reason. That doesn't excuse regimes that have fostered terrorism, but it does explain why they don't like us. We've effectively fostered a lot of terror, misery, and heinous human rights abuses in our own right. The shitshow in the Middle East today is largely the fault of the U.S.'s foreign policy blunders in the Cold War.

John Bolton earned all the headlines for his anti-Iran views, but he was never the only one.

John Bolton resigned as national security adviser in September at the nadir of his influence in the Trump administration. Left on the sidelines of talks with North Korea and the Taliban, Bolton grew isolated, his notoriously hawkish designs for the world relegated to the backbench. Or so the theory went.

No other Trump administration official was willing to state the quiet part in such loud, blunt terms, but Bolton was far from alone in cheering for this particular outcome. With Bolton out of the picture, three senior officials—Secretary of State Mike Pompeo, national security adviser Robert O’Brien, and diplomat Brian Hook (who is responsible for coordinating the US government’s approach to Iran)—have picked up where he left off, ushering in the most tense period of Iran-US relations since the 1979 revolution.

When talking with reporters back in 2014, Pompeo, then a member of Congress, pushed for an attack inside Iran against nuclear facilities. “This is not an insurmountable task for the coalition forces,” he said. Once Barack Obama reached a deal with Iran in 2015 to halt nuclear weapon production, Pompeo didn’t mince words. “The Iranian regime is intent on the destruction of our country,” Pompeo said in a press release. “Why the President does not understand is unfathomable.”

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2020/01/iran-hawks-inside-trumps-administration-mike-pompeo-bolton-robert-obrien-brian-hook/

Mike Pompeo has always had questionable relationship with Saudi Arabia:

The United States wants to build a coalition of European and Arab partners to deter Iran after an attack on Saudi Arabia that Secretary of State Mike Pompeo described on Wednesday as “an act of war” against the world’s top oil exporter.

“This is an attack of a scale we’ve just not seen before,” Pompeo told reporters traveling with him before landing in the Saudi city of Jeddah for talks with Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman. “The Saudis were the nation that were attacked. It was on their soil. It was an act of war against them directly.”

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-saudi-aramco-pompeo/pompeo-says-attack-was-act-of-war-on-saudi-arabia-seeks-coalition-idUSKBN1W32AG

His trip to Saudi after Jamal Khashoggi's murder was sketchy:

Saudi Arabia's king and crown prince are shielding themselves from the Jamal Khashoggi murder scandal by using a roadmap drawn up by the US secretary of state, a senior Saudi source has told Middle East Eye.

Mike Pompeo delivered the plan in person during a meeting with Saudi King Salman and his son, Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, last month in Riyadh, said the source, who is familiar with Pompeo's talks with the Saudi leaders.

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/pompeo-handed-riyadh-plan-shield-mbs-khashoggi-fallout-says-source

Handing them an award for counter-terrorism work while they're committing genocide in Yemen?

Crown Prince Muhammed bin Nayef was presented with the George Tenet medal by CIA director Mike Pompeo during the new chief's first overseas visit to Turkey over the weekend, the official Saudi Press Agency reported.

The medal was awarded in recognition of Prince bin Nayef’s “excellent intelligence performance, in the domain of counter-terrorism and his unbound contribution to realise world security and peace“.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/cia-saudi-arabia-crown-prince-muhammed-bin-naye-medal-counter-terrorism-work-intelligence-a7577221.html

One thing that many don't realize is that the USA has been sending troops to Saudi Arabia since May:

The United States is sending nearly 3,000 more Army troops to the Mideast as reinforcements in the volatile aftermath of the killing of an Iranian general in a strike ordered by President Donald Trump, defense officials said Friday. 

Prior to this week's troop deployments, the administration had sent 14,000 additional troops to the Mideast since May, when it first publicly claimed Iran was planning attacks on U.S. interests.

https://fortune.com/2020/01/03/us-sending-troops-middle-east/

And now we are told to expect Iranian retaliation within the next few weeks (or even months? lol); basically, whatever happens in the future, no matter how far in the future, will be considered a retaliation through which a full blown escalation will take place. Wars don't start over night, and it seems that the Saudis (and many others) have enough voices in the white house to push their agenda forward. A war with Iran is likely, and to me, "who is starting it?" is not a question at this point. 

Last edited by LurkerJ - on 05 January 2020

America is losing more and more support worldwide and i would not even blame Russia for sticking with those they can trust,what makes me upset is all the innocents that can get their lives destroyed so i really really hope it stops escalating.