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Machiavellian on 05 December 2024
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EricHiggin said:
Machiavellian said:

If people thought about deeper intentions then we would not see a change within 4 years like we do.  We would see people willing to stay the course for as long as they believe in that government or system and we would not see one party changing from one term to another.  

Why would what Trump does hurt the current legislation when that same person is making himself the culprit in the problem. If anything that would unify people against that person as pride will come into play.

As I stated, it would have been much smarter to negotiate first instead of telling the world you are going to force Canada to submit to your demands.  You say Canadians are hurting so having a villain to use as a scapegoat probably would work much better for the current administration.

If anything you seem to think Trump cares about your conservative party or even your government but if that was the case, he would negotiate first with your conservative party but he hasn't.  If anything your Trust that Trump cares is what I find very funny because if history is any indication, Trump only cares about himself and how he looks.  So the only way you get cooperation from Trump is if you bend the knee.  Lets see how that turn out for the conservative party if kissing Trump butt is the way to power.

If Trump was making moves to help the conservative party, we would not see reactions from the conservative party when he announced his tariffs.  What it shows is that he isn't doing anything to work with them, he is doing what he wants and you just believe he is.

Parties aren't super clear with their agenda's to begin with while campaigning, don't always follow through with what they say they will do when in power, and have to deal with an entire Country as well as the rest of the world and it's constant change, like the climate, for example. There is no such thing as get in line and stay in line in a democracy.

The current Canadian Liberal Federal Gov sucks. They were in power during Trumps first term. The masses have had enough and the polling shows it. It also shows the masses are heavily leaning towards the Conservative Party, and Canada has like 5 or 6 major parties. Though arguably, only 2 are really serious contenders. The Conservatives are campaigning on protecting Canada, and what Trump is doing, right now, as you said, is forcing Canada to want to protect itself, which obviously helps the Conservatives a great deal.

Most of the time negotiating behind closed doors, especially with Trudeau and his Cabinet, will get you nowhere. If you bring it into the light however, it evens the playing field because now they look bad to all the people, and forces them to have to play serious politics. Using Trump as a villain worked for the Federal Liberals back during Trumps first term, but everyone has wised up since. The way our Gov handled the pandemic, and how they handled the trucker protests was basically the final straw.

How is Trump supposed to negotiate with our Federal Conservative Party if they're not in power? What are they going to be able to accomplish? The only negotiations that would matter, are if they were based on the Conservatives winning the next election, and if they need to win the next election, wouldn't you want to nudge Canada in that direction if you could?

Trump cares about himself and America first, yes, but that doesn't mean you can't end up with a win win situation where both America and Canada get to benefit, and right now, Canada needs some benefitting of some sort period. Plenty of American people, politicians, and sectors, seemingly kissed Trumps butt, which supposedly was going to be to their detriment because Trump was going to lose, but he won, and not by tiny margin either.

I already told you the Conservatives here aren't stupid. Their campaign message is Canada First, but they don't say it like that at all, to make sure they don't have to deal with the nonsense that would follow because of it. They're reacting to Trump the way they need to now because, again, it keeps them from having to deal with the nonsense of what would follow if they agreed with him publicly. Not that they completely agree with Trump, but they're more on Trumps side than Trudeau's, because what Trudeau has been doing, isn't working.

Never said negotiate behind closed doors, I said negotiate first before telling the world that you are going to FORCE Canada and Mexico to submit to your demands.  Its much easier to come to an agreement where both parties can say they are in agreement than to first take an aggressive stance than hope they come to the negotiation table.  So now if either country bend the knee, they look weak while Trump gets to take the victory lap.  As I stated, he tried that same tactic with China, you still have not given any indication of why that will work with Canada or is Canada weak and is ready to submit to America rule.

You cannot have a win situation if negotiations start with the American President telling your country to bend the knee first.  This is why your statements just funny to me.  You want so bad to make everything that Trump say and do be the correct course all the while accepting another country trying to make you sub servant at the same time, then proclaiming that the party you support wants independence.  Next you attempt to make it seem like a glorious cooperative plan by Trump to help that party when its clear its not because your conservative party did not respond like it was some type of blessing.

Lol, the only one I see who is on Trump side is you.  You continue to defend Trump stance then proclaim its good for the party you support while Trump plan has nothing to do with your conservative party.  Its you that saying your conservative party can have a mutual working relationship with Trump administration but no where has Trump even shone the slightest that he cares.  He is going to force Canada to bend the knee because it makes him look strong and he loves appearances but somehow you are trying to tell us that is going to be a great situation for Canada and your conservative party "Canada First".  Yeah, good luck with that.

You still seem to be getting ahead of yourself before Trump has served a day in office.  Why don't you wait until he actually implement what he says he is going to do before you give him the victory lap.  Yes, he is president, now the fun part start which is actually performing in that role.  So lets see how well him blanket tariffs against the world going to turn out or will he just wuss out.