Forums - Politics Discussion - Iranian General Killed by US Attack

padib said:
SpokenTruth said:

Let me break down a few things here.

1). Soleimani was a bad guy.  A terrorist.  He was directly responsible for the deaths of many innocent civilians from many nations.

2). I do not mourn his death. I mourn for the innocent civilians who will likely die from escalations.

3). Diplomacy is always a better answer than war unless directly attacked in your homeland.

4). The authority to enact war is Constitutionally vested within Congress.

5). The planned assassination of a foreign military general and their expected presidential successor is an act of war.

6). WE are terrorists to them.

If you assume anything else after this, it's on you. 

You speak as if you are all-knowing, but you aren't. Your judgement is just as flawed as everybody else's.

1) Seems like it!

2) You don't know who would die more, with or without his execution of the general.

3) Diplomacy is not always better than war, since war is already in place the general was already attacking American bases. Also, when Hiroshima & Nagasaki were badly hit (it was a tragedy), the war ended. So history doesn't see as you do.

4) I don't even know what that means, care to use terms I can actually understand? I'm not a politician, I sure hope you aren't.

5) As mentioned in 3, the war was already being enacted by the iranian military.

6) To who? Only to those in leadership in Iran. But according to the video pitzy posted, we are not terrorists to the majority.

Stop pretending like you stand on moral high ground...

2). Let me get this straight.  You don't know if killing a high ranking military general and presidential successor of Iran may or may not lead to more civilian deaths?  Seriously?  What, you think Iran might be all, "Oh, hey , that's cool.  We won't retaliate."

3). Did you miss the part where Japan attacked our homeland?  You know, the second prepositional phrase in that sentence.  And the manner with which you just brushed off using 2 nuclear bombs is rather disturbing.

4). According to the Constitution, the power to enact war was given to Congress, not the President.  He has to consult Congress for war.  You don't need to be a politician to know this for most US citizens. You're Canadian so it's understandable your are familiar with how our Constitution established checks and balances on each branch of the government.

5). That's not how declaring war works. We were attacked by Japan on US soil and still officially declared war.

6). Then you obviously don't know much about the region. Our government is very much viewed as the aggressor for millions in the Middle East and southwest Asia (Central America too). Was it not us (and the UK) that overthrew their government in 1953 and installed the Shah?

I said I don't want more people to die.   Is that really considered standing on moral high ground to you?



Massimus - "Trump already has democrat support."

SpokenTruth said:

Let me break down a few things here.

1). Soleimani was a bad guy.  A terrorist.  He was directly responsible for the deaths of many innocent civilians from many nations.

2). I do not mourn his death. I mourn for the innocent civilians who will likely die from escalations.

3). Diplomacy is always a better answer than war unless directly attacked in your homeland.

4). The authority to enact war is Constitutionally vested within Congress.

5). The planned assassination of a foreign military general and their expected presidential successor is an act of war.

6). WE are terrorists to them.

If you assume anything else after this, it's on you. 

1) Also American soldiers

2) But he’s already been either directly or indirectly responsible for the deaths of thousands. There would have been continued bloodshed if he was not killed. I’m not saying the assassination was 100% the right thing, bc it was a very complex situation, but leaving him alive to continue increasing his kill count sure as hell wasn't either. 

3) Based on who Soleimani was, I don’t see any world where diplomacy could have been achieved with him. Some people just want to watch the word burn.

4) Yes

5) Were not Soleimani’s killing of and injuring hundreds of American soldiers and firing at our tankers and other American-occupied structures also acts of war? Soleimani struck first. And second. And third. Etc. 

6. Watch the video I posted. I don’t believe that is true for the average Iranian civilian. After all, Soleimani has murdered thousands of his own Iranian people. Do you really think they hate us for killing him? Here’s the link for the video:  https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1C888mSyD7s

Also, here’s a discussion on Yahoo finance that is very informative and brings a ton of context to this whole situation. Yahoo finance is my main source for news. They lean much more strongly to the anti-trump side, but I haven’t often seen them be aggressively biased, and non bias is all I want from a news source. 
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HhHH5x2q7qQ&t=323s

Last edited by pitzy272 - on 09 January 2020

These ducking terrorists shot down Ukrainian plane killing 176 people, I have no compassion for Iran.



pitzy272 said:
SpokenTruth said:

Let me break down a few things here.

1). Soleimani was a bad guy.  A terrorist.  He was directly responsible for the deaths of many innocent civilians from many nations.

2). I do not mourn his death. I mourn for the innocent civilians who will likely die from escalations.

3). Diplomacy is always a better answer than war unless directly attacked in your homeland.

4). The authority to enact war is Constitutionally vested within Congress.

5). The planned assassination of a foreign military general and their expected presidential successor is an act of war.

6). WE are terrorists to them.

If you assume anything else after this, it's on you. 

1) Also American soldiers

2) But he’s already been either directly or indirectly responsible for the deaths of thousands. There would have been continued bloodshed if he was not killed. I’m not saying the assassination was 100% the right thing, bc it was a very complex situation, but leaving him alive to continue increasing his kill count sure as hell wasn't either. 

3) Based on who Soleimani was, I don’t see any world where diplomacy could have been achieved with him. Some people just want to watch the word burn.

4) Yes

5) Were not Soleimani’s killing of and injuring hundreds of American soldiers and firing at our tankers and other American-occupied structures also acts of war? Soleimani struck first. And second. And third. Etc. 

6. Watch the video I posted. I don’t believe that is true for the average Iranian civilian. After all, Soleimani has murdered thousands of his own Iranian people. Do you really think they hate us for killing him? Here’s the link for the video:  https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=1C888mSyD7s

Also, here’s a discussion on Yahoo finance that is very informative and brings a ton of context to this whole situation. Yahoo finance is my main source for news. They lean much more strongly to the anti-trump side, but I haven’t often seen them be aggressively biased, and non bias is all I want from a news source. 
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HhHH5x2q7qQ&t=323s

So you failed Point 6 by assuming a bunch of stuff I'm not saying.

2). I'm going to type this in caps because I don't think my point has been sufficiently made.  ESCALATION!  I don't want to it to get worse.  Why is this so damn hard to grasp?  I know thousands have died over the years.  I don't want millions to be the next milestone.

3). Some do want to see the world burn.  And until you attempt diplomacy you will never know.  Did you know that we haven't had open diplomatic channels with Iran in 40 years?  That means we've never even attempted diplomacy with Soleimani.

5). Saying he struck first, second and third shows you are not all that familiar with the history between the US and Iran. You have to go back to 1953.  Soleimani is a product of our intervention and of the Iraqi invasion of Iran during the 80s. Our actions have short and long term repercussions and childish tit for tat bullshit is what leads to people getting killed.

6). You and her are trying to tell me that the average Iranian does not believe the US government to be a purveyor of terrorism?  Imagine what that looks like from their perspective. We invade, we assassinate, we coup, we fund militias, we train militias, we ally with terrorists, we placed 45 military bases around them. What would that look like to you? As for being angry that we killed their general and presidential successor?  I'd say they're pretty mad.  I don't like Trump or Pence and I'd be mad as hell if a foreign nation assassinated either one of them.

I'd say these people probably aren't very happy right now and they damn sure aren't passing out cookies and cake.



Massimus - "Trump already has democrat support."

This topic should be pretty much done now. Trump confirmed to the world that he is a wuss, because a true American president would go to war and bomb Iran to ashes.

We can focus on impeachment proceedings again where it looks like the senate will give Trump the pass that he's been looking for, because the democrats couldn't help themselves from rallying super hard against Trump because of the Iran thing. The republican majority is going to be like, "Our president slapped his own party in the faces by not consulting congress regarding the planned killing of Soleimani, but doing the democrats a favor with removal from office... nope, not going to happen."



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A Biased Review Reloaded / Open Your Eyes / Switch Gamers Club

Pyro as Bill said:
The_Yoda said:

I thought it was coincidence, then I heard they would not release the black boxes to Boeing and I wasn't so sure. Since then I've heard they have invited Ukraine and Canada to help investigate which brings me back to coincidence and mechanical failure.

Iran shot it down by mistake.

It is possible but seems pretty unlikely, anything to back that up?



The_Yoda said:
Pyro as Bill said:

Iran shot it down by mistake.

It is possible but seems pretty unlikely, anything to back that up?

The current story is that Iran had turned on their anti-aircraft batteries once tensions got high but either didn't factor in commercial aviation or misidentified it as an enemy bomber.  Radar and some recovery efforts have even identified the type of anti-aircraft battery system that was used.

Video also shows it was hit by a missile.  I won't link to it but it's viewable online.



Massimus - "Trump already has democrat support."

SpokenTruth said:
The_Yoda said:

It is possible but seems pretty unlikely, anything to back that up?

The current story is that Iran had turned on their anti-aircraft batteries once tensions got high but either didn't factor in commercial aviation or misidentified it as an enemy bomber.  Radar and some recovery efforts have even identified the type of anti-aircraft battery system that was used.

Video also shows it was hit by a missile.  I won't link to it but it's viewable online.

Aw damn, thanks.  Been at work and hadn't heard this yet.  It just didn't make sense for them to knowingly down that plane.



The_Yoda said:
SpokenTruth said:

The current story is that Iran had turned on their anti-aircraft batteries once tensions got high but either didn't factor in commercial aviation or misidentified it as an enemy bomber.  Radar and some recovery efforts have even identified the type of anti-aircraft battery system that was used.

Video also shows it was hit by a missile.  I won't link to it but it's viewable online.

Aw damn, thanks.  Been at work and hadn't heard this yet.  It just didn't make sense for them to knowingly down that plane.

So far it definitely doesn't seem like it was on purpose.  And to be honest, if it were on purpose there would really be no way to know.  It still seems like a major screw up rather than intentional though.

Either way it sucks for everyone on board plus their friends and families.  There were people from several countries on that flight.  Thankfully no one on the ground has been reported to have been hurt.



Massimus - "Trump already has democrat support."

BIG DADDY TRUMP GONNA SAVE THE WORLD BOIs