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Forums - Sales Discussion - Japan First Day Sales 12/10 (Tales of Graces and other games)

Soriku said:
jarrod said:
Soriku said:

Level 5 said they weren't ready to show Inazuma Eleven Break...I guess we'll see more if it next year and have it finally be released.

Dumb, but I guess they're changing it into something more than just an IE1 remake then.  They also keep insisting Nunokuni is also coming to a console, which will undoubtedly be Wii.

I'd like to see them do a Layton game personally.  Maybe not a brain teaser, but something more like a pure adventure game or dungeon crawler?


The Ninokuni console game is for ROID.

ROID isn't a console, and the ROID game was already announced and is a mobile spinoff (Hotroit Stories).  Level-5 keeps insisting the actual DS game is also coming to "a console", it's basically multiplatform.  Considering how spell casting is done (drawing symbols/runes), it's likely Wii.



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Soriku said:
Hero_time88 said:
Soriku said:

ToH sold 140k week one and legged it out to 250k. ToG'll sell more than 140k week one so it'll end up higher than ToH. I was expecting 300kish LTD, it should do that or come really close. People expecting something like 400k or more were setting their hopes up too high. Are bundles counted or not? If not then sales are higher.

lol at tres, trolling as usual. Of course they'll make a new Wii Tales if they continue to do new DS Tales. They'll make a new HD one too.

Tales of Keroro is a low-budget spin-off, and the question is where the next main entry will go.

PS3Wii, just like Sengoku BASARA 3, would be te best choice for the next one and everyone would be happy too.

 


That's not what I mean. Tempest sold <100k FW, they still made Innocence. Innocence sold 106 FW (and 76k first day) and they still made Hearts.

And no, they won't make a PS3 and Wii multiplat game. They'll make a new HD game (by Team Symphonia), and a new Wii game (by Team Destiny).

Well, that's what you are hoping.

I highly doubt the next game by Team Destiny will be a Wii only game if the sales for Graces don't improve.

Innocence was already in devolopement when Tempest was released, and I think Namco blaimed Tempest itself for it's bad-sales because it was bad and the Japanese Tales of fanbase hated it.

 



Edit: @Soriku

however as shown previously in this thread, Tales games on Nintendo consoles seem to be much more front-loaded. And most Nintendo fans hold on to the "previous trends" argument, i guess using that argument ToG should sell around 140k FW.

Also i'm not defending Hanafuda, but some of the annoying people on this thread were Nintendo fans who claim that ToG will make a greater profit without backing up with data. That argument becomes really annoying sometimes and really far away from reality. I'm not saying ToG flopped, but i dont get why some people get annoyed because Vesperia outsold it and try to defend the lower sales.



starterman1989 said:
bardicverse said:

Should we roll out the generic profit map again? Average Wii development is 6.5 mil dollars. Average HD development is 18 mil dollars.

After retailer cut, average $50 game, publisher receives roughly 40, after cost return for manufacturing, advertising, etc, roughly $20 is left for profit.

Depending on the contract, the developer is given money ahead of time to produce the game. When X amount of sales are made, they then take in profit. Generally this number is around 500k units in basic markets. So, until the game hits that agreed upon number, the actual dev doesn't get any royalty money. So, by that, no Tales game has ever provided a royalty to the developer yet.

Backtracking, we have this concept of $20 profit to the publisher per game sold, and an investment of 7 mil to develop a Wii game and 18 mil for a PS3 game.

Current numbers put ToV at 370k roughly. 370x20 =   $7,400,000

Current numbers put ToS at 250k roughly. 250x20 = $5,000,000

Granted, this is a ballpark figure, as both games operate at a loss which no publisher would stand for, but the general ballpark puts ToS closer to its break-even/profit line than ToV does. 

There is a flex point to the development costs, naturally, as party games and non AAA titles tend to run cheaper on all systems. AAA games on Wii can reach 15 mil and PS3 AAA games can escalate to 30-60 mil.

Edit- So, some people are stating 700k for Tov, for WW, where I was specifically talking about Japan here. Yet, do the same math = 700k x20 = $14 mil , still shy of the average production cost/profit margin for a HD game.

Ah... interesting, so Wii games & HD games provide the same profit /unit sold? The same profit / unit sold... Is it Japan only, or similar worldwide?

Its a general formula for most all platforms. There's percentages of that $50 game that are allocated for specifics - retail profit, manufacturing, advertising, development, publisher profit, and if the game is successful- developer royalities. There's a great book on the structure if you're interested in getting into the game business, its called Game Plan. Don't remember the author off hand. But will give you some great insight and is easy to read through.



darthdevidem01 said:
Soriku said:
Hero_time88 said:
Soriku said:

ToH sold 140k week one and legged it out to 250k. ToG'll sell more than 140k week one so it'll end up higher than ToH. I was expecting 300kish LTD, it should do that or come really close. People expecting something like 400k or more were setting their hopes up too high. Are bundles counted or not? If not then sales are higher.

lol at tres, trolling as usual. Of course they'll make a new Wii Tales if they continue to do new DS Tales. They'll make a new HD one too.

Tales of Keroro is a low-budget spin-off, and the question is where the next main entry will go.

PS3Wii, just like Sengoku BASARA 3, would be te best choice for the next one and everyone would be happy too.

 


That's not what I mean. Tempest sold <100k FW, they still made Innocence. Innocence sold 106 FW (and 76k first day) and they still made Hearts.

And no, they won't make a PS3 and Wii multiplat game. They'll make a new HD game (by Team Symphonia), and a new Wii game (by Team Destiny).

I'd actually like to see a switch over

Destiny doing a HD one & Symphonia doing a Wii one

they should scrap DS/PSP ones now

That's exactly what I was going to say.



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kopstudent89 said:
^^however as shown previously in this thread, Tales games on Nintendo consoles seem to be much more front-loaded. And most Nintendo fans hold on to the "previous trends" argument, i guess using that argument ToG should sell around 140k FW. 

Well, DOTW was more frontloaded, but it was also a pretty mediocre spinoff and a summer release.  I'd expect Garces to be less frontloaded just by virtue of being released 2 weeks before the holidays.  See how Hearts sold (though it was also overshipped and pricecollasped after 2 weeks iirc).



Soriku said:
darthdevidem01 said:
Soriku said:
Hero_time88 said:
Soriku said:

ToH sold 140k week one and legged it out to 250k. ToG'll sell more than 140k week one so it'll end up higher than ToH. I was expecting 300kish LTD, it should do that or come really close. People expecting something like 400k or more were setting their hopes up too high. Are bundles counted or not? If not then sales are higher.

lol at tres, trolling as usual. Of course they'll make a new Wii Tales if they continue to do new DS Tales. They'll make a new HD one too.

Tales of Keroro is a low-budget spin-off, and the question is where the next main entry will go.

PS3Wii, just like Sengoku BASARA 3, would be te best choice for the next one and everyone would be happy too.

 


That's not what I mean. Tempest sold <100k FW, they still made Innocence. Innocence sold 106 FW (and 76k first day) and they still made Hearts.

And no, they won't make a PS3 and Wii multiplat game. They'll make a new HD game (by Team Symphonia), and a new Wii game (by Team Destiny).

I'd actually like to see a switch over

Destiny doing a HD one & Symphonia doing a Wii one

they should scrap DS/PSP ones now


Why? Both teams are quality so it doesn't really matter :P Actually if Team Destiny continues to innovate with the battle system (since ToG looks like the best battle system in the series yet) then I'd prefer them over Team Symphonia unless they do something more drastic with its next Tales. But I wouldn't care either way.

The thing is that Team Symphonia already made an HD game and Destiny made a Wii game so they have the foundations already ready.

I admit I have not played either

but whenever graces & TOV come here I will buy em both

but next time I'd like to see variety & a change in style

thats why I'd hope that Destiny make the HD one & symphonia make the Wii one

@majin

yeah!



All hail the KING, Andrespetmonkey

Soriku said:
jarrod said:
Soriku said:
jarrod said:
Soriku said:

Level 5 said they weren't ready to show Inazuma Eleven Break...I guess we'll see more if it next year and have it finally be released.

Dumb, but I guess they're changing it into something more than just an IE1 remake then.  They also keep insisting Nunokuni is also coming to a console, which will undoubtedly be Wii.

I'd like to see them do a Layton game personally.  Maybe not a brain teaser, but something more like a pure adventure game or dungeon crawler?


The Ninokuni console game is for ROID.

ROID isn't a console, and the ROID game was already announced and is a mobile spinoff (Hotroit Stories).  Level-5 keeps insisting the actual DS game is also coming to "a console", it's basically multiplatform.  Considering how spell casting is done (drawing symbols/runes), it's likely Wii.


Oh...just checked, it really is a spinoff.

Well, we'll see. I hope they end up making a Ninokuni for Wii too, the DS game looks gorgeous and on the Wii it would look amazing.

Yeah, I just don't understand why Nintendo doesn't look to L5 more given what a standout success they've been on DS.  Games like Layton, Inazuma or Nunokuni would probably do really well on Wii imo.  I'm starting to think we'll have to wait for DQX before seeing L5 on Wii. :/



The Tales of games for the PSP and DS have lower budget's and haven't been that long under devolopement, so the risk isn't a big as with a console version. They already have there engines ready and know each of the platforms, but still...

Tales of Graces has been three years under devolopement, and I think they will look at how the different title's have performed those last years and make there decissions, but if Graces ends up selling worser than the port of Vesperia... well I dunno... but we will see soon enough the decission of Namco.



It annoys me to all hell that nobody knows if bundles are included or not. Because if they aren't that could make somewhat of a difference. It's not like sales numbers are going to double or anything, but I'd expect atleast a 20-30k bump because of it.