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Forums - Sales Discussion - A possible reason 3rd parties ignore the Wii...

mjc2021 said:
Seems to be debate on which console does the best job moving 3rd party software. Just based on the top 10 selling games I wanted to show the disparity. Also you may notice the Wii games are lackluster in comparison to the HD games. At least in my opinion of course, perhaps some of you genuinely enjoy those games.

Bear in mind which console has the largest userbase.

Xbox 360 (Games Bundled Excluded)
Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare 7.33
Grand Theft Auto IV 7.03
Call of Duty: World at War 5.45
Assassin's Creed 4.49
Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock 4.23
The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion 2.67
Guitar Hero II 2.46
Madden NFL 08 2.41
Call of Duty 2 2.39
Fallout 3 2.33

40.79 Million

Playstation 3
Grand Theft Auto IV 5.59
Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare 4.26
Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots 3.93
Assassin's Creed 3.36
Call of Duty: World at War 3.25
FIFA Soccer 09 2.17
Resident Evil 5 1.99
PES 2009: Pro Evolution Soccer 1.95
Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock 1.89
Pro Evolution Soccer 2008 1.73

30.12 Million

Wii
Guitar Hero III: Legends of Rock 4.21
Carnival Games 3.27
Guitar Hero: World Tour 2.93
LEGO Star Wars: The Complete Saga 2.56
Sonic and the Secret Rings 2.04
Game Party 1.99
Deca Sports 1.88
Rayman Raving Rabbids 2 1.64
Rayman Raving Rabbids 1.62
Resident Evil 4: Wii Edition 1.58

23.72 Million

umh?? did you exclude gears 1, gears 2 and Resi 5 for the 360?

 

see that just points how flawed the "bundled" term is, cause I saw bundles for GTA IV MSG 5 PES 2009 on the PS3... and i'm pretty sure there was a CoD4 bundle for 360.

 

so the only valid list is the Wii's. Wii wins by default.

 



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KungKras said:
Why is it that 3rd party games suddenly became so important? Why isn't first party games just as important?

First Party is just as important, but because Nintendo dominates so completely in that realm, Nintendo's greatest strength is attempted to be painted as a disadvantage by their competitors and echoed by fanboys.

 



Bet between Slimbeast and Arius Dion about Wii sales 2009:


If the Wii sells less than 20 million in 2009 (as defined by VGC sales between week ending 3d Jan 2009 to week ending 4th Jan 2010) Slimebeast wins and get to control Arius Dion's sig for 1 month.

If the Wii sells more than 20 million in 2009 (as defined above) Arius Dion wins and gets to control Slimebeast's sig for 1 month.

The Wii's 3rd party sales aren't as concentrated in the top 10. It's actually selling more 3rd party software than any other system. More companies are making money on the Wii than on the HD consoles. That is good. It also has the most exclusives, the most zombie games, the most ultraviolent games, the most rail shooters, the most party games, and the most games that sell over 10 million or 20 million. That is also good.



bardicverse said:
mjc2021 said:
bardicverse said:

There is only one reason that 3rd parties will ignore the Wii - because mjc2021 said so, and his word is infallible. ;P


 

Well in this particular case... I'd like to think there some validity to what I'm saying.

It does and it doesn't all in the same. What you need to look at is the same game on all 3 platforms. Who's to say how well Assasin's Creed would have done on the Wii, or how Ravving Rabbids would have done on the PS3?

If you line up the games that came out for all 3, you'd have an argument with a better foundation.

For example, we know clear well that for COD:WaW, it was 360>PS3>Wii, for Guitar Hero 3 it was Xb360 4.23M >Wii 4.21M > PS3 1.89M .... so right there, we have a bit to both prove and disprove your argument. This would make a much better point to balance out and see what 3rd parties have profited from Wii development and which have faltered.

 

 


Ravving Rabbids and Guitar Hero 3 doing well on the Wii gives me little reason to believe Assassin's Creed would be a success on the Wii. Assassin's Creed is M rated and not a party game. Trends seem to show when a game is released on the 360, PS3, and Wii the Wii version has the poorest sales. I'm not saying that's the case every time, especially if its a game that would appeal to kids.

If more 3rd parties have profited from Wii development I assume we would see more support. Also you have to remember when a HD game is developed it can be ported to the 360, PS3, and PC with little changes. The Wii needs games designed specifically for it or it just shares games with the PS2.



Arius Dion said:
KungKras said:
Why is it that 3rd party games suddenly became so important? Why isn't first party games just as important?

First Party is just as important, but because Nintendo dominates so completely in that realm, Nintendo's greatest strength is attempted to be painted as a disadvantage by their competitors and echoed by fanboys.

 


I primarily buy a console for the 3rd party selection and I've never been a big Nintendo fan outside of classic Mario games.

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Best 3rd party game library is the Virtual Console. And it has some of the greatest games by multiple first parties on there (Nintendo, Sega, Hudson, etc.).



mjc2021 said:
Arius Dion said:
KungKras said:
Why is it that 3rd party games suddenly became so important? Why isn't first party games just as important?

First Party is just as important, but because Nintendo dominates so completely in that realm, Nintendo's greatest strength is attempted to be painted as a disadvantage by their competitors and echoed by fanboys.

 


 

I primarily buy a console for the 3rd party selection and I've never been a big Nintendo fan outside of classic Mario games.

Don't forget that playing Nintendo games will make your balls fall off if you are hardcore.

 



Stefan.De.Machtige said:
Squilliam said:

Truth or not, don't you think that some of the reasons why Nintendo and 3rd parties don't get along are due to how Nintendo acted in the past?

This is exactly the problem the wii has. 3rd party developers see good profits on a really low investment. So they continue do the same. They have no incentive to do better or invest more in a game, because of decent competition or broad demand for quality. It acts out like a self-fulfilling prophecy. Because the whole 'stupid kiddy console' idea took hold, they see very little reason to put more effort in the wii games.

This year sees a far better line-up of quality. But it is still not what a marketleader should have. It seems the mindset is truly changing, but it painfully shows that most 3rd party developers have little imagination or courage to do something new. When i first saw the wii, i thought of the new gaming opportunities coming our way. I saw it, Nintendo sure saw it, but not many others. It's sad that an old veteran like Nintendo got so much disbelief. Nintendo basically started the business with the same daring attitude. And for the most time they kept it, despite some stupid mistakes (you know them). If i worked in the industry, ik knew this: Don't take your eyes of Nintendo, ever.

I don't think thats the case, low development costs can be both a blessing and a curse because it allows for a lot of very shallow development to take place. Furthermore you seem to have this other image about what the Wii is, its not the market leader of all markets. Hell its definately not likely to be the market leader amongst the main demographics which buy violent video games.

Low development costs are a mixed blessing, indeed. In this recession it acts more like an advantage, for now.

"But it is still not what a marketleader should have."

By this sentence i implied your point about how a marketleader should rule most demographics of consoles. Normally a markerleader with the wii numbers should have a far more dominant hold over those markets. In a one year or maybe two we could see far more special exclusives coming to the wii. if so, it will be a marketleader like the PS2. That process seems to underway with Dragonquest 10 or Monsterhunter 3.

Low development costs are balanced by more games being released. In general these things tend to approach an equilibrium which sees most developers on whichever platform losing money or breaking even on projects. Its unfortunately human nature, people are generally gamblers by nature which is why they seem willing to lose money on average in the hope of making it big.

The issue with the Wii is that its both the market leader in a strict SKU sense and not a market equal in a strict development sense. The Wii's software market share equals its hardware market share, this has nothing to do with that fallacy anyway. Furthermore for a multitude of different reasons, albeit developer preferences, publisher bias or perhaps fundamental market research which we don't see the Wii doesn't get its fair share of every genre. It doesn't look like the Wiis going to get a flood of FPS, WRPG and Sandbox games, for example and the reasons for this I cannot truthfully explain. Im sure however there are as many good and bad reasons for this.

 



Tease.

BengaBenga said:
Wii sold more 3rd party software than 360 and PS3 (not combined) in 2008. Biasing your list by only using the top 10's, which include mega games like GTA, Metal Gear Solid and Call of Duty 4, obviously won't tell you anything about 3rd party sales, just about the distribution of the big 3rd party games over the platforms.

Well Pinab posted this:
Total by 3rd party:
Wii: ~ 140M
X360: ~ 180M
Ps3: ~ 100M

I presume the numbers are somewhat accurate but I don't really know. Also the Wii has more bargain bin prices and a much larger userbase. When it comes to 1st party sales though the Wii definitely dominates. Not quite as much when you exclude Wii Sports and Wii Play but still the highest.



It'll get more Japanese 3rd party games towards the end, I'm not sure about western developers. The question is if Nintendo can get more western developers on board the next generation?