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Factor 5: Lair sucks but, hey, it's not our fault

Forums - Sony Discussion - Factor 5: Lair sucks but, hey, it's not our fault

If casual becomes the way of gaming then there will be a market crash like in '82(i think) because the devs will get lazy the consoles each gen wont have any features over the previous gen and the Greatest Franchise of All Time i.eMario,Zelda,Metroid,FinalFantasy,possibly DragonQuest and so on will die out because the fans of the series will be washed away in the rush of casuals and devs switching over to casual games and not even Nintendo could save the industry then it would take alot to bring it out of a so called 'dark age' like that.I dont think Mario would die but Zelda and Metroid would they are alot more hardcore than Mario is.FinalFantasy and DragonQuest would die out and so S-E would die out because their fans would again be washed away in the midst of casuals and eventually: Namco,Tecmo,Konami,Koei,Atari,SEGA,Midway,Epic,Ubi,FreeRadical,InfintyWard,Activision,Insomniac,NaughtyDog

All the great developers we know today would die out and so what would we be left with EA,ooo score, and EA arent even good developers.If only the Wii and DS could just stop selling as fast but still be profitable for Nintendo because these consoles aiming at casuals(whether they are picking them up we dont know)are making devs switch to casual games which leads to a 'dark age' of gaming and thats not good for anyone.

Again worst scenario but its still very much possible.



End of 2014 Hardware Predictions (03/03/14)

PlayStation 4: 12-15million

Xbox One: 7-10 million

Wii U: 8-9 million (Changed 01/04/2014 from 7-9 --> 8-9 million)

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Hus said:
Article is a joke, lets see the full interview not what they picked apart to make that crap.

Listen yo Julian on egm live, full interview and not some cut up hack job like this.

Says the king of out of context quotes to support whatever he wants to believe. He knows from experience guys.



To cash in my CC rewards points for $300 in Circuit City gift cards to purchase a 360 or not: That is the question.

Don't let reality stop you now little guy!



You have that poster too huh?

hey btw twesterm, I'm interviewing for a market research sales job at Parks associates here in the big D. They need somebody to move their gaming research so I applied...and hopefully I'll get going with that



mitsuhide said:
So with that info in mind(Provided by HappySqurriel)how the hell do we keep dev costs down so we dont see devs go the way of SEGA and produce crappy game after crappy game?

Cross posting from another thread, I'd say, not with this mindset:

some poster said:

It's good at taking a poor programmer's code and making it work. Microsoft has been doing this for a long time with their Visual Studio applications and even now .NET. Hell, a certain monkey like high ranking official even touted making the developer's lives easier in a recent conference. While it may sound great, it's bad for many... many more reasons than good. Developers don't even think about the processors anymore. Why is this bad? Because bad code doesn't show up in these situations. Coders that don't understand what the processor is doing and will blindly put in logic that make the processors perform many more tasks than are needed to perform a certain task. Ask your local developer what the fastest way is to multiply a number by 16. You'll get two answers. One is fast, and the other is lazy (or uneducated.)

You have to have good dev tools. This has hit the general software business much sooner than it did console gaming, but hardware comes very cheap when compared to dev costs. This includes everything from designing hardware that's easy to program for, providing frameworks that aid development, good tools for artists, etc.

Sony apparently did almost everything wrong in this department. Apart from aiding Epic with the Unreal Engine, and maybe then geting a deal to license it at a discount, every decision they made caused an increase in development costs. Microsoft, on the other hand, put every effort to make crossplating with the PC easy. Yes, it suits them. But it also suits third parties, lowering relative dev costs. Nintendo chose continuity in development (both with the Wii and the DS), being disruptive only with the package - this also helps.

And yes, y'all can complain all you want about the Wii not being powerful enough. But truth is that riding ahead of the wave costs a lot for almost no benifit at all - you simply can't future proof anything in this industry, the wave rides to fast for that. Nintendo (and Microsoft too, though arguably less so) came up with what's technologically feasible now for a $200-$300 budget. Yeah, Nintendo was a little cheap with the hardware. But they didn't go from $300 to $600 as Sony did - that's just crazy. The Wii's not a step backwards, and if we were to be always half a generation behind the bleeding edge, I'd be more than happy with it. Remember that none of the most expensive and/or most powerful consoles ever won their generations, ever. And none of them matched the PCs of their time. This isn't exactly new.



Reality has a Nintendo bias.
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mitsuhide said:
If casual becomes the way of gaming then there will be a market crash like in '82(i think) because the devs will get lazy the consoles each gen wont have any features over the previous gen and the Greatest Franchise of All Time i.eMario,Zelda,Metroid,FinalFantasy,possibly DragonQuest and so on will die out because the fans of the series will be washed away in the rush of casuals and devs switching over to casual games and not even Nintendo could save the industry then it would take alot to bring it out of a so called 'dark age' like that.I dont think Mario would die but Zelda and Metroid would they are alot more hardcore than Mario is.FinalFantasy and DragonQuest would die out and so S-E would die out because their fans would again be washed away in the midst of casuals and eventually: Namco,Tecmo,Konami,Koei,Atari,SEGA,Midway,Epic,Ubi,FreeRadical,InfintyWard,Activision,Insomniac,NaughtyDog

All the great developers we know today would die out and so what would we be left with EA,ooo score, and EA arent even good developers.If only the Wii and DS could just stop selling as fast but still be profitable for Nintendo because these consoles aiming at casuals(whether they are picking them up we dont know)are making devs switch to casual games which leads to a 'dark age' of gaming and thats not good for anyone.

Again worst scenario but its still very much possible.

Don't worry about this scenario, it has a 0 % chance of becoming real.

What would come closer to a crash is if there was no Wii and just the 360 and PS3. An industry full of $20+m productions for consoles which don't have the userbases to support all these games, this could cause the industry to crash in the long term.



Legend11 correctly predicted that GTA IV (360+PS3) would outsell SSBB. I was wrong.

A Biased Review Reloaded / Open Your Eyes / Switch Gamers Club

rocketpig said:
dallas said:
rocketpig said:

There's an easy way to keep devs costs down and it's already happening:

Nintendo wins every market.

With the mindset change that is going to need to happen in generation eight, we'll end up seeing less powerful, cheaper machines that will be easy to program for.


I hope not. And if cost is the major reason for going casual, I'd just as soon buy fewer games that I actually liked.


I think you're misunderstanding my point. I don't expect Sony and MS to go Nintendo-style casual with their next machines but they will think harder about development and hardware costs before attempting to release an uber-machine that costs them $200 more to make than what they can sell it for.

That will result in less powerful machines that cost less to develop for, not necessarily another system full of party/casual games.


I think you are on the right path, but I don't think less powerful is necessarily the only direction.  In addition to not focusing entirely on Raw Horsepower, I think the next generation will focus heavily on standardized tools, development kits, engines, etc. being developed and supported by the manufacturer to help cut the time and cost of development.  That means hardware will be designed to be high performance, of course, but high performance coupled with straightforward, easy development.  Does that mean the hardware won't be bleeding edge?  Yep, but it doesn't mean it still can't be very, very powerful.

I already refuse to pay 60 bucks on next gen games.  I haven't bought a single game at full price yet and I won't.  I'll buy it used, discounted, ebay, etc., or wait until the price comes down as that is just too much IMO.  The Wii titles are at the top of what I'm willing to spend and even then I'm very careful in what I get.

The next generation is going to be pushing the envelope in terms of budgets as we'll see hollywood sized spending given the level of hardware we will see if the next xbox installment and/or playstation installment is another hardware leap up.   I'm NOT paying 70 or 80 bucks for a game.



I hate trolls.

Systems I currently own:  360, PS3, Wii, DS Lite (2)
Systems I've owned: PS2, PS1, Dreamcast, Saturn, 3DO, Genesis, Gamecube, N64, SNES, NES, GBA, GB, C64, Amiga, Atari 2600 and 5200, Sega Game Gear, Vectrex, Intellivision, Pong.  Yes, Pong.

@Twesterm:
Lol good poster.



End of 2014 Hardware Predictions (03/03/14)

PlayStation 4: 12-15million

Xbox One: 7-10 million

Wii U: 8-9 million (Changed 01/04/2014 from 7-9 --> 8-9 million)

iclim4 said:
you guys do know Hus wasnt defending the game, but was merely saying that the destructoid article was crap and cut up and that you should look for the original interview.. really no need to flame the poor guy..

 

Agree , just because somebody likes a not well rated game you dont have to flame him . Hell , I used to play Crusaders of Might and Magic for days , and that was considered an uber flop ... I bet that everybody has an ill rated personal favorite

dallas said:
You have that poster too huh?

hey btw twesterm, I'm interviewing for a market research sales job at Parks associates here in the big D. They need somebody to move their gaming research so I applied...and hopefully I'll get going with that

Cool, good luck with that! Where in Dallas?

 

iclim4 said:
you guys do know Hus wasnt defending the game, but was merely saying that the destructoid article was crap and cut up and that you should look for the original interview.. really no need to flame the poor guy..

And you do realize that he didn't even bother reading the article or at least not well enough to know thatit linked to the original interview?