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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - XBOX SERIES X OFFICIAL SPEC - Indeed it's 12 Teraflop of Navi 2 with Hardware Accelerated Ray Tracing and VRS , how much will it cost ? EDIT : Add Digital Foundry analysis

Tagged games:

 

How much do you think it will cost in USD

more then 600 USD 7 11.29%
 
600 USD 16 25.81%
 
550 USD 8 12.90%
 
500 USD 31 50.00%
 
450 USD 0 0%
 
400 USD 0 0%
 
Total:62

Sony need to pull out something quick. Or else Microsoft will be running the media for many months.



Pocky Lover Boy! 

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Jranation said:
Sony need to pull out something quick. Or else Microsoft will be running the media for many months.

Meanwhile Sony is still selling many PS4s for many months. Why tell people to wait for their next system?

To put things in perspective teraflop wise, the XBox One was 71% of the ps4 in terawotsits, that's 8.54tf compared to 12tf. It will mean even less start of next gen, no 8K tvs yet, 4K is still not the norm, and at the average tv size, native 4K isn't even that important.

Price is what matters. Another 400 vs 500 should not happen.

MS is mostly confusing to me, PC or console, streaming or not, no VR on console, GAAS or real games. I'm mostly excited for the new MS Flight Simulator. But I guess I'll stick to PC since that will have the option for VR.
https://uploadvr.com/ms-flight-sim-2020-vr-high-priority/



CGI-Quality said:

Got to hand it to these companies - they know how to get the masses talking with such vague info and theoretical numbers.

While nice to have some confirmation, I’m more interested in far more meaningful info, like RAM amount/speed, Bus Speeds, Bandwidth, CPU clocks/speed, etc.

It's no different when companies used bits in their marketing... The Nintendo 64 was probably the biggest abuser of that. - Ironically, the generation after with the Original Xbox... That was a 32bit system and dominated the Nintendo 64's 64bit hardware.

Yet bits don't tell us a single thing about performance, but consumers thought it did... And at the end, that is all that mattered to the advertising teams.

twintail said:
So VRS doesn't require my TV to be VRR compliant?

It's basically culling, but for pixel shading.
It just reduces the compute overhead for rendering a scene... Which means it can do more work per flop.

Ck1x said:

Well Microsoft isn't going to give all of their information away for Sony just to take note, plus they probably haven't nailed down clock speeds and total RAM amounts just yet...

If they have given out a "flop number" which is a characteristic of functional units multiplied by instructions per clock multiplied by clockrate... Then they have probably nailed down clockspeeds.

At this point the designs would be done and dusted, they are just doing extensive testing to work on any erratas.

JEMC said:
Those aren't specs, just the compute power of the console. We still don't know the specs they're using to reach that number.

It's not even the complete compute power of the console.
It tells us nothing of the ray tracing compute capabilities.
It tells us nothing of integer capabilities.
It tells us nothing of half precision floating point compute capabilities.
It tells us nothing of quarter precision floating point compute capabilities.
It tells us nothing of double precision floating point compute capabilities.

It only tells us a single aspect of it's compute capabilities... We don't know if the design is using rapid packed math and has a theoretical 48 Teraflops of FP8.

twintail said:
Lafiel said:

no, VRS has no requirement concerning the output device - it's not at all related to VRR in any form

I think I'm getting caught up on the fact that both improve frame rate.

VRR or Variable Refresh Rate doesn't improve frame rates. It matches your output device to the framerate so that framerates seem steady and in sync.

Ck1x said:

Not true we all know that the PS4 RAM amount was changed at the very last minute, which took many developers by surprise. I'm sure they have an idea but don't want commit just yet until they have an idea what Sony might be doing.

That didn't require an entire respin of silicon.
The lower density memory chips can literally be swapped out for higher density ones with minimal/no effort, you shouldn't even need to do any software rewrites to support that change.

Ck1x said:
How much of this VRS technique is patented by Microsoft, its a very unique feature for certain

* It's not a Microsoft patent. It is part of the Direct X and Vulkan specification.
* AMD and nVidia both leverage this technology.

Sony will have it as well.

HollyGamer said:

VRS =/= VRR. VRS is more about variable rate shading, a method to trick your polygon count on the screens , like checkerboard or upscaling

Umm. Polygons?
https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/news/nvidia-adaptive-shading-a-deep-dive/



Trumpstyle said:
With Microsoft confirming this is RDNA 2 gpu architecture, XsX should beat even the Geforce 2080 Super GPU, this is great.

It means allot of things.
It means that 99% of your "guesses" were wrong.

But it also means that next-gen 7nm consoles will be competitive with a high-end 12nm Turing Titan GPU from 2018.
A PC GPU 2 years older than the next-gen console hardware.
* A current Titan RTX would still likely hold the performance edge.

It also means that potentially that performance of next-gen consoles might fall towards the upper-mid range PC area when Ampere releases this year, which is nVidias first foray into 7nm.

How it compares to AMD's Navi GPU's dropping this year remains to be seen, we will get that info probably on March 5th at AMD's Financial Analyst Day.

SvennoJ said:

Meanwhile Sony is still selling many PS4s for many months. Why tell people to wait for their next system?

To put things in perspective teraflop wise, the XBox One was 71% of the ps4 in terawotsits, that's 8.54tf compared to 12tf. It will mean even less start of next gen, no 8K tvs yet, 4K is still not the norm, and at the average tv size, native 4K isn't even that important.

Price is what matters. Another 400 vs 500 should not happen.

MS is mostly confusing to me, PC or console, streaming or not, no VR on console, GAAS or real games. I'm mostly excited for the new MS Flight Simulator. But I guess I'll stick to PC since that will have the option for VR.
https://uploadvr.com/ms-flight-sim-2020-vr-high-priority/

Memory bandwidth is likely the biggest hindrance for the Xbox One vs Playstation 4. Only so far you can take eSRAM.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

CGI-Quality said:
Pemalite said:

It's no different when companies used bits in their marketing... The Nintendo 64 was probably the biggest abuser of that. - Ironically, the generation after with the Original Xbox... That was a 32bit system and dominated the Nintendo 64's 64bit hardware.

Yet bits don't tell us a single thing about performance, but consumers thought it did... And at the end, that is all that mattered to the advertising teams.

Oh, brotha, you know I know this! I once used the BiTs example and actually had someone who has no clue how hardware works try to tell me what I didn't know. A definite chuckle!

To this day, those consumers of the 80s/90s still can't explain BiTs. Teraflops will go down in history with an even broader sense of 'purpose' while having no Joe Average able to explain them. :P

That said, even with us Enthusiast-grade PC builders, that Xbox Series X is a console monster!

I know you knew, more or less elaborated for everyone elses sake. Haha :P

It most certainly is a speccy machine, it will be interesting to see how new GPU's this year compare, AMD's 7nm GPU's at the moment come short of nVidia's 12nm... And nVidia is moving to 7nm this year, so should be interesting.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

CGI-Quality said:
Pemalite said:

It's no different when companies used bits in their marketing... The Nintendo 64 was probably the biggest abuser of that. - Ironically, the generation after with the Original Xbox... That was a 32bit system and dominated the Nintendo 64's 64bit hardware.

Yet bits don't tell us a single thing about performance, but consumers thought it did... And at the end, that is all that mattered to the advertising teams.

Oh, brotha, you know I know this! I once used the BiTs example and actually had someone who has no clue how hardware works try to tell me what I didn't know. A definite chuckle!

To this day, those consumers of the 80s/90s still can't explain BiTs. Teraflops will go down in history with an even broader sense of 'purpose' while having no Joe Average able to explain them. :P

That said, even with us Enthusiast-grade PC builders, that Xbox Series X is a console monster!

You might want to read this 



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Pemalite said:
CGI-Quality said:

Oh, brotha, you know I know this! I once used the BiTs example and actually had someone who has no clue how hardware works try to tell me what I didn't know. A definite chuckle!

To this day, those consumers of the 80s/90s still can't explain BiTs. Teraflops will go down in history with an even broader sense of 'purpose' while having no Joe Average able to explain them. :P

That said, even with us Enthusiast-grade PC builders, that Xbox Series X is a console monster!

I know you knew, more or less elaborated for everyone elses sake. Haha :P

It most certainly is a speccy machine, it will be interesting to see how new GPU's this year compare, AMD's 7nm GPU's at the moment come short of nVidia's 12nm... And nVidia is moving to 7nm this year, so should be interesting.

Also you might want to check this out. If Xbox Series X using RDNA 2 for the GPU it might even better then RX 5700  https://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-RDNA-2-New-rumors-allege-50-better-performance-than-RDNA-1-with-no-added-power-consumption.450435.0.html



JRPGfan said:
599$ price point incomeing.

Yes and I hope PS5 won't have 12Tf, I don't want to see it at 599€...

I'm still impressed by PS4 exclusives on PS4 Pro despite having a great PC so I'm not hungry for full power.



Jranation said:
Sony need to pull out something quick. Or else Microsoft will be running the media for many months.

If PS5 is a strong console ecosystem all around, they might as well wait. It will bring more damage to MS if they do, not to mention they don't want to get in the way of existing PS4 sales any sooner than they have to.

If around E3, if not fall, PS has their announcement conference and it's everything it should be, the majority of the hype and momentum MS would have created from now until then, will all be for nothing. If SNY can have that $399 type PS4 mic drop moment, it'll be much more impactful if they wait to unveil everything later at the same time, after MS has used up most of their ammo.

If PS5 isn't going to be that strong all around, or won't/can't have that mic drop moment for whatever reason, then playing tit for tat consistently makes more sense, getting in the way of PS4 sales somewhat or not.



HollyGamer said:

You might want to read this 

I respect Zhuge, but that supercomputer was build from general purpose CPU-type chips, while in the Series X it certainly refers to alu operations .. that's not a good comparison



Lafiel said:
HollyGamer said:

You might want to read this 

I respect Zhuge, but that supercomputer was build from general purpose CPU-type chips, while in the Series X it certainly refers to alu operations .. that's not a good comparison

Of course we cannot directly compared, but seeing how technology progress is just amazing. Even back then in 2005 i remember when Ken Kutaragi said that PS3 is far from CGI tech level on PC frames on hollywood with 10 teraflop. Now console can achieve more than that for affordable price , small form factor, and  low power wattage.